The beheading video

[AU Tailgating Rules 0]

I don't know if this is going to come off exactly right but i'll try.  Supposedly this incident was in retaliation of the abuse from American soLdiers in an Iraqi prison.  When the "abuse" pictures became known the liberal media and Democratic politicians took full advantage to air our dirty laundry in a political attempt to hurt the Bush Administration.  By airing these pictures and giving them credibility in the national media we have given these radicals all the excuse they needed to commit any and all atrocities against Americans and our allies.

Now I am not for censorship, however I do believe that wartime is not the right time to be debating all of these things in public.  When we have defeated all the insurgents in Iraq, dismantled Al Qaeda, taken care of Syria, Iran. N. Korea, Etc, and generally won the war on terrorism, then we can spend our time airing our "dirty" laundry.  Doing so prior to total victory only gives our enemies greater motivation.

In other words, WAR IS UGLY, BUT DEFEAT IS UGLIER!!!!!!!

You just said on the other thread 'Why Are We At War' that you (rightfully) believe that the war on terror is going to be a long one. Years. Many years. How can we, once the 'war' is over, go up to Sgt. John Smith and say, 'OK, now that that's done, you're under arrest for what you're doing in these pictures that were taken 5, 10, 15 years ago at Abu Ghraib prison?' You can't. Justice delayed is justice denied. These acts existed before their record was put online and to delay responsibility for them would tacitly encourage more of the same.

You're trying to shift the blame for what happened in Abu Ghraib and put it on the media. You're trying to shift the blame for what those sick f**ks did to Nicholas Berg and put it on the media. Then you try to legitimize blaming the media when you codify it as 'the liberal media.' You seem to think that the pictures are the source of the problem and if we hide them and deny what was happening then everything would be cool. Iraqis knew what was going on at Abu Ghraib a long time ago when people who had been there were released and told them about it.

Tiger Al,

I am not trying to say that we do not need to immediately prosecute and punish those that commit crimes during the war on terror. I am simply saying that I believe that is inappropriate for the media to televise every "dirty" detail for all of our enemies to see. We can air all this to the public after we have won the war. We can take care of our own problems privately.

While these pictures of prison abuse were probably not the cause of the Berg murder (they will kill Americans for no reason) they ceartainly did not help.

And if you don't believe that the liberal media and left wingers in congress are airing this type of stuff and convening commission after commision simply to hurt Bush and our war efforts than you are DILUSIONAL.

[Tigermike 3,657]

If it was right or wrong for the media to publish the pictures I don't know. But what is important is the way Americans reacted and responded to the pictures. Most were shocked, appalled and outraged, and immediately said it was wrong. Which to my way of thinking says a lot about Americans. Citizens of Islamic countries very rarely condemn barbaric and inhumane acts by their "soldiers". To borrow a quote from another thread, "When the war on terror began on September 11, 2001, I didn’t blame Muslims for the carnage. Last week I didn’t blame Muslims as a whole for the butchery seen now around the world. My opinion is changing, however. "

It would be easy now to think, kill them all and let Allah sort them out. But I wont.

[BamaGrad03 0]

My biggest concern is the lack of outrage by Muslims throughout the world. After 9/11 all we heard was that Islam was a loving religion and that the actions of a few should not dictate how a religion as a whole is perceieved.

But the ONLY Muslims I hear talking right now are the ones in the videos cutting heads off of americans...taking credit for dragging americans through the streets of iraq...and openly rejoicing the murder of thousands of americans on 9/11...where the hell are the "loving" muslims? Where the hell are the people who we are helping? Because it seems to me that the people in the middle east would rather murder american civilians then thank them for laying down lives to make theirs better.

[SLAG-91 1,604]

I won't be watching the video...the mental images I already have in my mind are horrific enough.

[keoson7 28]

Notice how the hide their heads in fear. Those people are cowards plain and simple. We need to infiltrate, and eliminate the leaders of these groups. There is only one thing these people understand and that is why Saddam ruled as ruthlessly as he did. They bring all the violence upon themselves. If they could attach some strings to ole saddam he might get re-elected.

[PChamp119 96]

American soldiers did somethin wrong, but this was obviously far worse. Did we kill anyone in those photos or just humilate them? I have only seen part of the video on the news when they showed him sitting down and talking a little. Is there a video that actually shows it?

[BamaGrad03 0]

American soldiers did somethin wrong, but this was obviously far worse. Did we kill anyone in those photos or just humilate them? I have only seen part of the video on the news when they showed him sitting down and talking a little. Is there a video that actually shows it?

Yes it is out there...its very disturbing.

[PChamp119 96]

where is the video? I saw something on a couple news websites, but it was just the before video.

[Tiger Al 0]

where is the video? I saw something on a couple news websites, but it was just the before video.

Google, baby, Google!!!

[PChamp119 96]

i tried that, but i keep getting sites that TALK about the video and not actually having the video. I tried a couple that could possibly work but I get an error when i go to the site.

[Tiger Al 0]

i tried that, but i keep getting sites that TALK about the video and not actually having the video. I tried a couple that could possibly work but I get an error when i go to the site.

You can also download it from Kazaa. Search for 'Nick Berg'. Be prepared, it is shocking.

[stoic-one 1,586]

i tried that, but i keep getting sites that TALK about the video and not actually having the video. I tried a couple that could possibly work but I get an error when i go to the site.

It was posted in this thread earlier, after some deliberation, we removed it. This is after all a "family oriented" site. I watched what was posted here, simply to vet it for the site....

I am not going to re-live it simply to describe it. I am sure if you do some looking around you can find it. Just please don't post it here.

[PChamp119 96]

I think I got some sort of firewall cuz of my D-Link modem that keeps me from downloading stuff. I had Kazaa before I found out about the spyware. So I use Ares now, which may have spyware, but I mainly changed because I read Kazaa was gonna get the boot. So anyone got a link??

[Guest AuNuma1]

I think I got some sort of firewall cuz of my D-Link modem that keeps me from downloading stuff. I had Kazaa before I found out about the spyware. So I use Ares now, which may have spyware, but I mainly changed because I read Kazaa was gonna get the boot. So anyone got a link??

weagle: This is a tough call because I understand the desire to want everyone to know what we're dealing with over there. But this is a family site and I just don't want younger kids to have such easy access to violence this graphic. So we've removed the links. If anyone is interested in seeing the full, unedited version of this death, use Google.

Titan Tiger

I saw it and I wish I hadn't...that's one of the worst things I've ever seen.

[Tiger Al 0]

Is anybody interested in talking about this video because, after looking at it again, there are some irregularities that I noticed.

[clantontiger 0]

I decided not to watch the video but did see the stills of the murder and was sicken to see the brutallity. I know war is hell and similar things happen to people in a fire fight or a tank battle, but to kill a civilian on purpose is cowardly.The muslim faith has a minority of thugs that have hijacked that religion to further their cause. What that cause is we do not know. What needs to happen is the moderate educated muslims need to take back their religion. I have not seen many if any reaction from the arab world. If they were to condemn this murder and continue to do so they may have a chance to take back their religion.

[AUJarhead 70]

Is anybody interested in talking about this video because, after looking at it again, there are some irregularities that I noticed.

What did you notice?

I tried watching it, but once they pushed him to the ground, I had to minimize it, and just listened to the sounds. After a few seconds of that, I closed the window.

[Tiger Al 0]

Is anybody interested in talking about this video because, after looking at it again, there are some irregularities that I noticed.

What did you notice?

I tried watching it, but once they pushed him to the ground, I had to minimize it, and just listened to the sounds. After a few seconds of that, I closed the window.

Sorry, it would actually require that you watch it or you wouldn't know what I was talking about.

[Guest AuNuma1]

Sorry, it would actually require that you watch it or you wouldn't know what I was talking about.

Yeah, I noticed one thing. It looks like there's a gap of footage taken out between the time the guy in the black mask starts it to the end where the guy in the white mask ends it. Other than that...

[AUgradin2005 0]

I just watched the video, and as disturbing as it is, there are things a lot worse than that that are available for rent in movie stores. Not sure if any of you know what I'm talking about but its the "Faces of Death" series.

[Tiger Al 0]

Sorry, it would actually require that you watch it or you wouldn't know what I was talking about.

Yeah, I noticed one thing. It looks like there's a gap of footage taken out between the time the guy in the black mask starts it to the end where the guy in the white mask ends it. Other than that...

I didn't notice that the masks were different. That's another irregularity.

Here's what I found odd about this video...

The audio and video are way out of sync. You hear the screaming 4-5 seconds before you see the attack. I know this happens sometimes for whatever technical reasons but I've never seen it this mismatched.

When the guy reading the statement grabs Berg the camera shot is straight on and stays that way for about a second into the attack. The time stamp reads 2:43 I think. I assume this time is based on a 12 hour clock instead of a 24 hour clock since it doesn't read 02:43. At this point the camera angle changes and the time stamp then reads 16:something, 24 hour clock. Is this a second camera or is there that much difference in time?

The second camera angle is where 99% of the attack is shown from. What struck me as odd (maybe because I'm in the medical field) is that you would expect to see massive blood spray coming from the carotid arteries when they're cut. This doesn't happen. Really, the only blood you see is a relatively small pool under him. Think back to descriptions of the Simpson/Goldman murder. This looked very 'clean.' Maybe poor image detail accounts for this, but there isn't even any blood on the walls or on the killers clothes or hands that I can tell.

During the attack, Berg's body never moves that much. Even with the others holding him down you'd think there would be some instinctive struggling but I never even see his head or mouth move except by the killer.

This is all weird because the video is presented as if this is one single action that is filmed in real time. I'm wondering if Berg wasn't already dead at the time of the second camera angle and the beheading was done post-mortem. If that's the case, why? Did they really want to make a chilling statement by beheading him on camera instead of another way?

Did anybody else think anything along these lines or am I just standing in the grassy knoll?

[AUgradin2005 0]

I take back what I just said about the Faces of Death videos. I always thought they were real but I just went and looked it up and turns out all of the stuff was staged by a director. None the less, it is still pretty graphic stuff.

[Weagle98 119]

I heard somewhere that the cameraman messed up the shooting of the video and they had to do some editing. Not sure if this is true. It still gets the point across.

[DKW 86 7,866]

Sorry, it would actually require that you watch it or you wouldn't know what I was talking about.

Yeah, I noticed one thing. It looks like there's a gap of footage taken out between the time the guy in the black mask starts it to the end where the guy in the white mask ends it. Other than that...

I didn't notice that the masks were different. That's another irregularity.

Here's what I found odd about this video...

The audio and video are way out of sync. You hear the screaming 4-5 seconds before you see the attack. I know this happens sometimes for whatever technical reasons but I've never seen it this mismatched.

When the guy reading the statement grabs Berg the camera shot is straight on and stays that way for about a second into the attack. The time stamp reads 2:43 I think. I assume this time is based on a 12 hour clock instead of a 24 hour clock since it doesn't read 02:43. At this point the camera angle changes and the time stamp then reads 16:something, 24 hour clock. Is this a second camera or is there that much difference in time?

The second camera angle is where 99% of the attack is shown from. What struck me as odd (maybe because I'm in the medical field) is that you would expect to see massive blood spray coming from the carotid arteries when they're cut. This doesn't happen. Really, the only blood you see is a relatively small pool under him. Think back to descriptions of the Simpson/Goldman murder. This looked very 'clean.' Maybe poor image detail accounts for this, but there isn't even any blood on the walls or on the killers clothes or hands that I can tell.

During the attack, Berg's body never moves that much. Even with the others holding him down you'd think there would be some instinctive struggling but I never even see his head or mouth move except by the killer.

This is all weird because the video is presented as if this is one single action that is filmed in real time. I'm wondering if Berg wasn't already dead at the time of the second camera angle and the beheading was done post-mortem. If that's the case, why? Did they really want to make a chilling statement by beheading him on camera instead of another way?

Did anybody else think anything along these lines or am I just standing in the grassy knoll?

If you atre on a grassy knoll, then I am with you on it.

I got the strange feeling that the blood and out of sync stuff was just poor quality video tho. The first Osama tape was out of sync because they did not want to release the full transcript at that time.

Who knows but I have questions. We know it happened, but the tape has gaps and skips and the translation is bad too I think.

[clantontiger 0]

Whether or not it is real time or a cut and paste job, the fact is they killed him and cut his head off. They found his body on a bridge with no head. A Pre mortem or Post mortem beheading is still a beheading.