Not football related

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Lets hope they do

You have some serious issues, vatz.

[tiger88 934]

Lets hope they do

You have some serious issues, vatz.

No doubt. Being a teenager is no excuse for a statement like that.

[texaubie 0]

Vatz, if you were a US soldier in Iraq and had captured an Iraqi prisoner that you knew would kill you in a hearbeat given the opportunity and you believed the prisoner had intelligence that would prevent a future attack on US forces, would you beat him into submission if you believed the information would prevent the death of your fellow soldiers?

In summary, I'm not shocked that we were abusing Iraqi prisoners to gain intelligence. I am shocked that our soldiers were both stupid and sadistic enough to take pictures for future reference. However, there are bad apples in every population but I don't think it represents the population as a whole.

[vatz22au 142]

Hey I didnt beat any body up, rape them, or anything like that....I have serious issues? All I said was that I hoped they pay for what they did. Dont give me the teenager crap...Sometimes I manage to make points that are far better than some people on here. Lets dont "overgeneralize" shall we?

[vatz22au 142]

Vatz, if you were a US soldier in Iraq and had captured an Iraqi prisoner that you knew would kill you in a hearbeat given the opportunity and you believed the prisoner had intelligence that would prevent a future attack on US forces, would you beat him into submission if you believed the information would prevent the death of your fellow soldiers?

In summary, I'm not shocked that we were abusing Iraqi prisoners to gain intelligence. I am shocked that our soldiers were both stupid and sadistic enough to take pictures for future reference. However, there are bad apples in every population but I don't think it represents the population as a whole.

By the way, they were not beating them up for intelligence....They take photos of them, and distribute them on cds that were circulated around base. Gotta read up on it buddy.

[TitanTiger 21,064]

vatz, you need to read up some. The reports coming out are that virtually all of this stuff, from the alleged beatings to the humiliation was done at the request of intelligence officials who wanted them to 'soften up' the prisoners for interrogation. I'm not saying that necessarily makes it right. Just clarifying. The distribution of the photos was a by-product, not the reason.

[vatz22au 142]

vatz, you need to read up some. The reports coming out are that virtually all of this stuff, from the alleged beatings to the humiliation was done at the request of intelligence officials who wanted them to 'soften up' the prisoners for interrogation. I'm not saying that necessarily makes it right. Just clarifying. The distribution of the photos was a by-product, not the reason.

Do you want a link titan? I'll be more than happy to provide one.

[vatz22au 142]

Here

"The man is naked, grimacing and lying on a floor. There are photographs of naked men, apparently prisoners, sprawled on top of one another while soldiers stand around them.

According to The Post, the photographs were taken by several digital cameras and loaded onto compact discs, which circulated among soldiers in the 372nd Military Police Company, an Army Reserve unit based in Cresaptown, Md. "

[TitanTiger 21,064]

What is it with you not understanding the English language, vatz? I said that the issue of the photos being passed around was a BY-PRODUCT of what was happening. I didn't deny that it happened. What I am saying is that the people involved were told to do these things to try and soften up the prisoners so they'd comply during interrogations. THAT was the primary reason it was going on. The passing around of photos was a side issue.

Do you need to go back to remedial English? Sheesh, everytime I address any point with you I have to say something over and over again to make sure you get it. I think you just buzz through a post and one or two half-read points stick out to you and you're off railing against a tangent with little to no regard to the rest of the post. Either that or you're just dense.

[Guest AuNuma1]

Do you need to go back to remedial English?  Sheesh, everytime I address any point with you I have to say something over and over again to make sure you get it.

He's already painted his picture...you repeating yourself is for naught. I'd give up if I were you.

[tiger88 934]

Hey I didnt beat any body up, rape them, or anything like that....I have serious issues? All I said was that I hoped they pay for what they did. Dont give me the teenager crap...Sometimes I manage to make points that are far better than some people on here. Lets dont "overgeneralize" shall we?

If the shoe fits wear it.

Lets not overgeneralize? What have you been doing on this thread? :roll: I wasn't overgeneralizing, I was making a statement based on reading your posts on this thread. Your self righteous indignation is amusing to say the least. Such behavior is much more common among pre adults who haven't lived much life yet.

[Ranger12 53]

Hey I didnt beat any body up, rape them, or anything like that....I have serious issues?  All I said was that I hoped they pay for what they did.  Dont give me the teenager crap...Sometimes I manage to make points that are far better than some people on here.  Lets dont  "overgeneralize" shall we?

If the shoe fits wear it.

Lets not overgeneralize? What have you been doing on this thread? :roll: I wasn't overgeneralizing, I was making a statement based on reading your posts on this thread. Your self righteous indignation is amusing to say the least. Such behavior is much more common among pre adults who haven't lived much life yet.

Well said. I finally took the time to read all of this thread and for him to make a comment hoping that US soldiers suffer mental problems from their experiences in Iraq is a ignorant a comment as I have ever heard and really showed his age with that comment. It is comments like that that really give my mandatory military service position some credence. Whether you agree with the war or not, to make a comment wishing mental and health problems on a soldier just following orders is very close to being un-patriotic in my book! As a former soldier that has been iinvolved in firefights and seen death, I take that comment as a personal jab against me also and all other veterans. Vatz, I know you are young, but that is no excuse for what you said. You might as well made the comment about me, TIS, TigerAL, GoAu, AUjarhead, and all other current and former military personnel on this board.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

It is comments like that that really give my mandatory military service position some credence.

2 weeks in Fallujah or Baghdad would have him singing a different tone for sure.

[AirForceforAU 0]

It is comments like that that really give my mandatory military service position some credence.

2 weeks in Fallujah or Baghdad would have him singing a different tone for sure.

thats for sure..

[vatz22au 142]

Hey I didnt beat any body up, rape them, or anything like that....I have serious issues?  All I said was that I hoped they pay for what they did.  Dont give me the teenager crap...Sometimes I manage to make points that are far better than some people on here.  Lets dont  "overgeneralize" shall we?

If the shoe fits wear it.

Lets not overgeneralize? What have you been doing on this thread? :roll: I wasn't overgeneralizing, I was making a statement based on reading your posts on this thread. Your self righteous indignation is amusing to say the least. Such behavior is much more common among pre adults who haven't lived much life yet.

Well said. I finally took the time to read all of this thread and for him to make a comment hoping that US soldiers suffer mental problems from their experiences in Iraq is a ignorant a comment as I have ever heard and really showed his age with that comment. It is comments like that that really give my mandatory military service position some credence. Whether you agree with the war or not, to make a comment wishing mental and health problems on a soldier just following orders is very close to being un-patriotic in my book! As a former soldier that has been iinvolved in firefights and seen death, I take that comment as a personal jab against me also and all other veterans. Vatz, I know you are young, but that is no excuse for what you said. You might as well made the comment about me, TIS, TigerAL, GoAu, AUjarhead, and all other current and former military personnel on this board.

Thats ok...I respect fellow older soldiers on this board as much as my mom and dad for what they have done for there country. I only based my comments on the soldiers who did these mean acts. All I am guilty of is asking they recieve what is coming to them (a rightful punishment).

[AirForceforAU 0]

and i agree with you, they should get the rightful punishment thats coming to them whatever that may be, but you shouldn't wish someone mental problems or health on someone when they already probably will from their experiences, thats all i think they are trying to say

[Ranger12 53]

Vatz, I know you hate to have the "youth" thing thrown at you, but guy, that is what comes out in alot of your commentaires like this. You may think you are just as intelligent as older persons on this board, but intelligence and wisdom are not the same my friend. I don't know you personally and don't know what kind of life you have lived up to now, but you make commentaries on subjects that can only be truly gotten by being a little older then you are. That hurts your credibility. You may not like that, but youth is a liability that will be held against you until you have quite a few more birthdays and experience more of life. It will be used against you in relationships and jobs. That is part of life. When others bring up your age, it is not being sarcastic, it is being truthful. Unfortunately, about the time being young will not be held against you, it will not be long afterwards that being old willbe held against you. Heck, I guess I am about in the middle now. I am 30 and starting to be considered old by teenagers, but still just a youngin by anybody over 45. However, I feel more like 60 sometimes after two divorces (almost a year into my third marriage), military combat (which is the same as two divorces ), and a twelve year old daughter acting like a 18 year old. I had seen and experienced by the time I was 25 then alot of 65 years old had, so try not to get yourself so caught up in all these social and political things by getting tore up about it. Enjoy your youth and embrace it, because you will blink and wonder what the hell happened to it.

[texaubie 0]

Vatz, if you were a US soldier in Iraq and had captured an Iraqi prisoner that you knew would kill you in a hearbeat given the opportunity and you believed the prisoner had intelligence that would prevent a future attack on US forces, would you beat him into submission if you believed the information would prevent the death of your fellow soldiers?

In summary, I'm not shocked that we were abusing Iraqi prisoners to gain intelligence.  I am shocked that our soldiers were both stupid and sadistic enough to take pictures for future reference.  However, there are bad apples in every population but I don't think it represents the population as a whole.

By the way, they were not beating them up for intelligence....They take photos of them, and distribute them on cds that were circulated around base. Gotta read up on it buddy.

Vatz, you are smarter than that. What do you think they do with enemy prisoners, feed and shower them? Why even bring them in if you don't need intel from them?

[Tiger Al 0]

Are you that are willing to minimize or excuse what happened in Abu Ghraib under the impression that all of the prisoners in this place are soldiers, Iraqi insurgents or al Qaeda suspects? There are indeed those there, but many, if not most, are people accused of run-of-the-mill civilian crimes. You seem to think that all of them were plucked from the battlefield. I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not but it would seem like it should.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Up till now, I don't recall anyone on here minimizing or attempting to excuse what happened at Al Ghraib. The big difference is that in the rare instance when American soldiers are involved as the guilty party, the issue gets blown way out of porportion. Where was all of this outrage when the 4 Americans were burned alive and hung from that bridge in Fallujah? All I remember hearing in the media is how "we are losing the war" in Iraq. That was it. The story was dropped. Why didn't the great judges of morality like Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, or Robert Byrd who are so quick to speak up now say something then? I'll tell you why......THIS HAPPENED ON BUSH'S WATCH!!

I make no excuses for the soldiers that did this, and I for one, have stated that these morons that did this have dishonored the other roughly 149,990 military men and women over there doing the job the right way. For the sake of argument, one could easily (and justifiably) make the point that some of these poor humiliated "victims" have committed atrocities 1000 times worse than what has been depicted so far in these photos.

[Tiger Al 0]

Up till now, I don't recall anyone on here minimizing or attempting to excuse what happened at Al Ghraib. The big difference is that in the rare instance when American soldiers are involved as the guilty party, the issue gets blown way out of porportion. Where was all of this outrage when the 4 Americans were burned alive and hung from that bridge in Fallujah? All I remember hearing in the media is how "we are losing the war" in Iraq. That was it. The story was dropped. Why didn't the great judges of morality like Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, or Robert Byrd who are so quick to speak up now say something then? I'll tell you why......THIS HAPPENED ON BUSH'S WATCH!!

I make no excuses for the soldiers that did this, and I for one, have stated that these morons that did this have dishonored the other roughly 149,990 military men and women over there doing the job the right way. For the sake of argument, one could easily (and justifiably) make the point that some of these poor humiliated "victims" have committed atrocities 1000 times worse than what has been depicted so far in these photos.

What exactly would you have 'the great judges of morality' do with regards to the Americans who were killed in Fallujah? What would an appropriate response be?

[TitanTiger 21,064]

A display of outrage approaching proportionality to the outrage they are showing now that it's our soldiers doing wrong would have been nice. I think that was TIS's point...they barely said "boo", except to make anti-Bush commentary, when the incident in Fallujah happened. All things are passed through their "how can we use this against Bush" filter first and foremost.

[Tiger Al 0]

A display of outrage approaching proportionality to the outrage they are showing now that it's our soldiers doing wrong would have been nice.  I think that was TIS's point...they barely said "boo", except to make anti-Bush commentary, when the incident in Fallujah happened.  All things are passed through their "how can we use this against Bush" filter first and foremost.

Well, I thought you summed it up very well on another thread.

This question keeps getting asked and the point is that there was a lot of press on that. But it is naturally going to be a bigger deal when we do it. It's no big secret that elements of Arab society are capable of such things. But we are supposed to be different. We are supposed to be bringing democracy, basic human rights, and freedom to a country that has had dictatorship, torture, coercion and oppression.

It's like hearing that Colin Ferrell (a notorious womanizer) has been bed hopping with dozens of women over the last two years. Big deal. We kinda already knew that. Now, contrast that with finding out that James Dobson or Franklin Graham had been doing the same thing. What would your reaction be? One seems to be a bigger deal than the other because Dobson and Graham are supposed to be different than that. They are supposed to value marriage, commitment, and sexual fidelity. So when they do something that goes against what they profess, it's a bigger deal than an alley cat like Ferrell doing it.

That pretty much sums it up.

[Ranger12 53]

A display of outrage approaching proportionality to the outrage they are showing now that it's our soldiers doing wrong would have been nice. I think that was TIS's point...they barely said "boo", except to make anti-Bush commentary, when the incident in Fallujah happened. All things are passed through their "how can we use this against Bush" filter first and foremost.

Exactly! It seems that those now crying foul about what these morons did are the ones that wanted to turn their backs on the complete evil things that Saddam was doing daily by the hundreds to his people every day.