Palin on Iraq

[MDM4AU 337]

Do you really think that Obama is so noble that he would pick Biden while knowing that someone else gave him a better chance of winning the election?

Are you seriously asking the head Obama bobo honker this question?

[TitanTiger 21,068]

I think runinred is really Obama Girl. Sing it with me:

"I've got a crush on Obama!"

[tiger88 934]

If Palin is such a terrible pick, why are some folks here in a two minute drill running her down, instead of of having a par-tee?

She's a hypocritical, cynical pick who wasn't chosen to govern. She was chosen to get elected. I frankly don't know how she will work out.

You wish. When biden was chosen most repubs were just happy he didn't do the smart thing and pick hillary. He chose the guy who got 9,00o votes in the primaries over the woman who received 18,000,000 because he is out of touch with most voters, even democratic ones.

Palin is an excellent pick, period. Thats why you guys are falling all over yourselves trying to pick her apart. You won't admit it but you're terrified. Not only WILL she make a great VP. She CAN be an excellent president after McCain serves his term or sooner if necessary.

Now go ahead and look like a fool talking about how our vp candidate is barely more qualified than your pres. candidate.

[RunInRed 18,113]

I think runinred is really Obama Girl. Sing it with me:

"I've got a crush on Obama!"

It's worth repeating - TexasTiger exposed you yesterday for what you really are.

[TitanTiger 21,068]

I think runinred is really Obama Girl. Sing it with me:

"I've got a crush on Obama!"

It's worth repeating - TexasTiger exposed you yesterday for what you really are.

I made mistakes on Obama's record in haste, that I have tried to correct as I realized them or they were pointed out, and me and Tex have talked in private about it.

You on the other hand are an out and out, completely non-objective shill. It wouldn't shock me a bit to find out your on the payroll of the Obama campaign in the rapid response unit.

My only issue in the Palin experience debate is not that I hold Obama's lack of experience against him necessarily. It's that you can sit there and act as if her lack of experience is a concern while pushing Obama as the uber-candidate we need in the #1 slot when he basically has the same lack of experience. How it's ok that you have a mix of experience (Biden) and inexperience (Obama) while it's some kind of pending disaster that we have the same (only in reverse as it should be if experience really matters) is unreal. Completely disingenuous.

So you can think he "exposed" me if that fits your narrative. Maybe Obama will cut you a little bonus check for fomenting that nonsense.

[RunInRed 18,113]

I made mistakes on Obama's record in haste, that I have tried to correct as I realized them or they were pointed out, and me and Tex have talked in private about it.

You on the other hand are an out and out, completely non-objective shill. It wouldn't shock me a bit to find out your on the payroll of the Obama campaign in the rapid response unit.

My only issue in the Palin experience debate is not that I hold Obama's lack of experience against him necessarily. It's that you can sit there and act as if her lack of experience is a concern while pushing Obama as the uber-candidate we need in the #1 slot when he basically has the same lack of experience. How it's ok that you have a mix of experience (Biden) and inexperience (Obama) while it's some kind of pending disaster that we have the same (only in reverse as it should be if experience really matters) is unreal. Completely disingenuous.

So you can think he "exposed" me if that fits your narrative. Maybe Obama will cut you a little bonus check for fomenting that nonsense.

It's not about you making a mistake - we all do it. It's about how for years you have tried to hide under the vail of being an objective and rational thinker and how you have now been exposed for what you truly are and for how you honestly think. You are a right winger, you are an abortion litmus test voter --- and that's fine. Just stand up and say so and quit with the BS because it's obvious to any one who has been paying attention what you represent.

Mean while, you adopt the Karl Rove style of politics and try to demean any one who disagrees with your positions. I am now an "Obama shill" and "rapid responder" because I just so happen to strongly support a candidate that you don't. At least I am willing to stand up for what I believe - in the face of huge oppositional odds without being deceitful and demeaning about. I am a Progressive and I am proud of it.

As for Palin, it cuts both ways. You guys have tried to spin this but the truth is, it was the McCain camp that was preaching the "not experienced, not ready" mantra and then JM goes out and picks the most inexperienced, unqualified candidate for VP in recent history. And all we get out of your side is "ugh ugh ugh...what about Obama....she's more qualified than him." It's hypocrisy in its truest form and it is why JM has now lost a big offensive weapon. You can't preach experience and then go make that type of pick - that dog does not hunt.

So keep up with all your BS, I think we all now know the truth about you.

[Tigermike 3,657]

you are an abortion litmus test voter --- and that's fine. Just stand up and say so and quit with the BS because it's obvious to any one who has been paying attention what you represent.

So keep up with all your BS, I think we all now know the truth about you.

And dimocrats are not abortion litmus test voters? You are a hypocrite of enormous proportions.

And for the record, we all know the truth about you. Obama Boy Girl.

A while back Otter smacked you for working at McDonalds. Now Titan has asked if you work on Obama's rapid response team. Which is it McD's or O's rr team.

[TitanTiger 21,068]

It's not about you making a mistake - we all do it. It's about how for years you have tried to hide under the vail of being an objective and rational thinker and how you have now been exposed for what you truly are and for how you honestly think.

You haven't been here long, so it's understandable that your take on this would be off. What's not understandable is how you can sit here and pretend to know me or how I think with such a dearth of experience with my political views over the years.

You are a right winger,

Depends on the issue. My family, whom I have sent to Snopes a zillion times when they sent out stupid stuff about Obama being a Muslim, or hating white people or whatever goofy crap they forward on would be confused. They were also stunned when I said that if Giuliani got the GOP nomination or if McCain chose Ridge as his running mate, I wouldn't vote Republican. They also questioned why I voted for a governor, US Senator and mayor that were all Democrats. They scratched their heads as to why I was reading The Audacity of Hope and saying nice things about Obama. But you're right. You know better.

you are an abortion litmus test voter --- and that's fine. Just stand up and say so and quit with the BS because it's obvious to any one who has been paying attention what you represent.

I am a pro-life voter. Abortion is a big part of that but so are other issues. If Obama weren't so mind-numbingly fused with an extreme pro-choice position, I'd give him more consideration.

That said, I'm no more of a abortion litmus test voter than 99% of the Democratic base. I just have a different take on what passes that test.

Mean while, you adopt the Karl Rove style of politics and try to demean any one who disagrees with your positions. I am now an "Obama shill" and "rapid responder" because I just so happen to strongly support a candidate that you don't. At least I am willing to stand up for what I believe - in the face of huge oppositional odds without being deceitful and demeaning about. I am a Progressive and I am proud of it.

No, Tex and Al are "progressives." You're a shill. There's a difference. You're becoming the joke of the board with how much you fluff Obama around here.

As for Palin, it cuts both ways. You guys have tried to spin this but the truth is, it was the McCain camp that was preaching the "not experienced, not ready" mantra and then JM goes out and picks the most inexperienced, unqualified candidate for VP in recent history. And all we get out of your side is "ugh ugh ugh...what about Obama....she's more qualified than him." It's hypocrisy in its truest form and it is why JM has now lost a big offensive weapon. You can't preach experience and then go make that type of pick - that dog does not hunt.

I have never held Obama's lack of experience against him, so I don't give a crap about this BS argument. My point is that you cannot sit there and criticize her experience level when she's being put forth as the VP when your PRESIDENTIAL candidate has no appreciable advantage in experience. That's all. McCain can still criticize if he wants because it's him and Obama at the top of the ticket. But personally, I don't care. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

So keep up with all your BS, I think we all now know the truth about you.

See, that's the problem. You don't. Not even close. You have no idea how my thoughts have changed since 2000, through the 2004 elections or especially over the last 18-24 months. None. You just think that since I argue against the points you take as Gospel Truth, that I must be spouting BS. But that's ok. There were more than a handful of people here (or that used to be here) that got all bent out of whack when I argued that the Iraq War was unnecessary and did not meet the requirements of the Just War Doctrine and that I believed what Scott McClellan said in his book about the run up to it. Funny how almost all of them were the so-called "right wingers" I'm supposedly a part of.

My views don't fit easily into either party. Some issues, like the sanctity of life, are pretty strongly Republican but that's as much because the Democratic party doesn't even try as it is that the GOP is all that strong on it. Other issues I'm more flexible on. Hell, BG thinks I'm a socialist because I don't believe unfettered capitalism is a good thing.

But no matter which issue we're talking about the bottom line is this: you don't know me and you're completely off your rocker if you think you do. I'm sorry that on some issues you don't get my support. That means I think for myself, not that I'm some closet far rightie playing dress up.

[RunInRed 18,113]

You haven't been here long, so it's understandable that your take on this would be off. What's not understandable is how you can sit here and pretend to know me or how I think with such a dearth of experience with my political views over the years.

Let's get a few things straight: I have been posting on various AU boards including al.com, the Bunker, and AUnation for the better part of the last 8 years. My post have primarily migrated to this board over the last few (and you know this because we talked about) because of the openness and freedom of speech these forums provide. By and large, this community while not being diverse (especially in political opinions) still does the best job of all Auburn boards in tolerating all sincere positions. Sure there are the one-off posters who insists on consisently showing their ass, but by and large, it's a good community.

My problem with you now, is not your positions. It's not even that I'm 100% claiming to know how you think on every issue. My beef and essential point is that you have digenerated into a contributor who no longer carrries out the board's mission, which you often profess. This is not about you agreeing with me, Obama, or any one else. It's about how you now choose to argue your "facts" and how you have lowered yourself to name calling those who hold oppositional views.

I am a pro-life voter. Abortion is a big part of that but so are other issues. If Obama weren't so mind-numbingly fused with an extreme pro-choice position, I'd give him more consideration.

That said, I'm no more of a abortion litmus test voter than 99% of the Democratic base. I just have a different take on what passes that test.

What I find comical, is that Obama has done more than any Democrat in recent memory to reach out to people of faith yet, "pro-life" people continue to demean him because they disagree with him on this one issue. I'm sure some One would be quite proud.

Further I would think that you of all people, who is fast to post every time Obama appears in a church, supports faith-based initiatives, or otherwise engages the religious communities would be more appreciative of his willingness to reach out while accepting his difference of opinion on the abortion issue - but you are not.

As for being a litmus test voter - unless you can provide us with another reason why you aren't supporting Obama (which you have not) then I'll let your words speak for themself. And I disagree that 99% of the Democratic base votes on this issue. Where do you get that number from? It would certainly not apply to me. Whether the candidate is "pro-life" or "pro-choice" is not even close to the top of my priority list. I believe I also previously provided you with an extensive list of elected Democrats who were Pro-Life.

No, Tex and Al are "progressives." You're a shill. There's a difference. You're becoming the joke of the board with how much you fluff Obama around here.

My point proven.

I have never held Obama's lack of experience against him, so I don't give a crap about this BS argument. My point is that you cannot sit there and criticize her experience level when she's being put forth as the VP when your PRESIDENTIAL candidate has no appreciable advantage in experience. That's all. McCain can still criticize if he wants because it's him and Obama at the top of the ticket. But personally, I don't care. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Wait a minute...I was not the one originally preaching the experience mantra. If there is any hypocrisy present it is that McCain has preached this "ready to lead on day 1" crap and then as a 72 years old man with known health issues, he goes out and picks a VP that is greener than Al Gore's fantasy land.

See, that's the problem. You don't. Not even close. You have no idea how my thoughts have changed since 2000, through the 2004 elections or especially over the last 18-24 months. None. You just think that since I argue against the points you take as Gospel Truth, that I must be spouting BS. But that's ok. There were more than a handful of people here (or that used to be here) that got all bent out of whack when I argued that the Iraq War was unnecessary and did not meet the requirements of the Just War Doctrine and that I believed what Scott McClellan said in his book about the run up to it. Funny how almost all of them were the so-called "right wingers" I'm supposedly a part of.

My views don't fit easily into either party. Some issues, like the sanctity of life, are pretty strongly Republican but that's as much because the Democratic party doesn't even try as it is that the GOP is all that strong on it. Other issues I'm more flexible on. Hell, BG thinks I'm a socialist because I don't believe unfettered capitalism is a good thing.

But no matter which issue we're talking about the bottom line is this: you don't know me and you're completely off your rocker if you think you do. I'm sorry that on some issues you don't get my support. That means I think for myself, not that I'm some closet far rightie playing dress up.

I've followed this board and your posts for a while. All I can go off is what you say. I stand by my original assertions that you are litmus test abortion voter who has adopted the Karl Rove style of politics to address people who hold opposing views.

[TitanTiger 21,068]

I have been posting on various AU boards including al.com, the Bunker, and AUnation for the better part of the last 8 years.

My post have primarily migrated to this board over the last few (and you know this because we talked about) because of the openness and freedom of speech these forums provide. By and large, this community while not being diverse (especially in political opinions) still does the best job of all Auburn boards in tolerating all sincere positions. Sure there are the one-off posters who insists on consisently showing their ass, but by and large, it's a good community.

My problem with you now, is not your positions. It's not even that I'm 100% claiming to know how you think on every issue. My beef and essential point is that you have digenerated into a contributor who no longer carrries out the board's mission, which you often profess. This is not about you agreeing with me, Obama, or any one else. It's about how you now choose to argue your "facts" and how you have lowered yourself to name calling those who hold oppositional views.

There's arguing oppositional views and theirs blind hero worship. The latter tend to get made fun of.

What I find comical, is that Obama has done more than any Democrat in recent memory to reach out to people of faith yet, "pro-life" people continue to demean him because they disagree with him on this one issue. I'm sure some One would be quite proud.

Further I would think that you of all people, who is fast to post every time Obama appears in a church, supports faith-based initiatives, or otherwise engages the religious communities would be more appreciative of his willingness to reach out while accepting his difference of opinion on the abortion issue - but you are not.

I do appreciate his willingness to reach out. And I've pointed it out when he has. But that doesn't buy my silence. He could say faith-based initiatives are of the devil for all I care if he showed actual value for human life beyond platitudes. Some issues are more important than others. For all his "reaching out" he doesn't budge one inch on his radical stance on this. For someone who couldn't even give a direct answer on when a baby has human rights (the "above my pay grade" comment), he doesn't even show the good judgment to err on the side of caution.

So no, I can't just act like this is a difference of opinion like we're talking about what color the carpet should be. Therefore I will praise him and give him kudos when he reaches out and shows a willingness to compromise and I will call him on it when the pretty words don't line up with the actions.

As for being a litmus test voter - unless you can provide us with another reason why you aren't supporting Obama (which you have not) then I'll let your words speak for themself. And I disagree that 99% of the Democratic base votes on this issue. Where do you get that number from? It would certainly not apply to me. Whether the candidate is "pro-life" or "pro-choice" is not even close to the top of my priority list. I believe I also previously provided you with an extensive list of elected Democrats who were Pro-Life.

Frankly, when the issue is one of life and death, that's enough.

1. Every SCOTUS judge he said he wouldn't have appointed are ones that I largely agree with. I don't like the thought of Obama choosing the next 2 or more SCOTUS judges. In fact, he voted no on Alito and Roberts.

2. I don't agree with his votes on gun rights. He supported and voted for the Illinois handgun ban. I know he's made statements about "keeping AK-47s" off the streets but that's not a handgun.

3. I'm not sure that his healthcare plan will really end up saving money and improving care. I fear it will just be a small step toward a British or Canadian style healthcare system.

4. I don't like his idea about getting rid of secret ballots for union votes.

5. According to non-partisan Factcheck.org, he has the most liberal voting record in the Senate.

6. Doesn't support partial privatizing of Social Security.

I mean, I could nitpick this stuff. There are various things I don't like about McCain either. But when you add it all up, take into account that I'm basically a center-right guy on most issues (though there are some things that dont' line up) then throw in the abortion issue, I can't see myself supporting him. What makes it hard is that I find him personally likeable and I like some of his ideas a good bit. But not enough to overcome abortion and other stuff.

My point proven.

Until you actually post something critical of Obama rather than praising his every move, you're just proving mine.

Wait a minute...I was not the one originally preaching the experience mantra. If there is any hypocrisy present it is that McCain has preached this "ready to lead on day 1" crap and then as a 72 years old man with known health issues, he goes out and picks a VP that is greener than Al Gore's fantasy land.

McCain is ready to lead on day 1. Palin might be. Obama might be. Biden is. Choosing Sarah Palin doesn't some how make McCain less experienced or Obama more experienced.

I've followed this board and your posts for a while. All I can go off is what you say. I stand by my original assertions that you are litmus test abortion voter who has adopted the Karl Rove style of politics to address people who hold opposing views.

Then you have not read very carefully, or for a very long time, at all.

[TexasTiger 14,070]

There's arguing oppositional views and theirs blind hero worship. The latter tend to get made fun of.

Exactly why I'm mocking the notion that being Mayor of Bugtussle prepared Palin to be CIC. An unknown has been wholly embraced by the right wing-- based on what?

[jw 4 au 526]

There's arguing oppositional views and theirs blind hero worship. The latter tend to get made fun of.

Exactly why I'm mocking the notion that being Mayor of Bugtussle prepared Palin to be CIC. An unknown has been wholly embraced by the right wing-- based on what?

I can see your point, but the argument is that she still has MORE executive experience, no matter the level. That is the response, agree or disagree how you like... BUT are you arguing the counter point that being a State Senator from Chicago makes Obama prepared to be CIC? It goes both ways and we can all make the choices as we think best fits to secure our vote. I for one look at all the issues, and sure as hell hope that whoever is the CIC from day one listens to the expierence of ALL our military leaders.