I'm somewhat shocked no one has talked about this in here

[Tiger Al 0]

I think the shoe was on the other foot when they sent troops to Iraq, wasn't it?

If you are suggesting that we should go to war with Russia because they sent troops to Iraq, I disagree.

If they had attacked Iraq, we sent troops to help them, and then Russia invaded us, I do not think they would be attacking Russian positions today. That's what "shoe on the other foot" meant.

We are sending humanitarian flights starting on Thursday of this week. If one of these flights is shot down, then there will be some escalation. Let's hope that is not the case, though.

No, I'm not suggesting we go to war with Russia. Just pointing out that when we asked Georgia for help in a fight they had no dog in, they sent some troops.

[CircleDrill 179]

No, I'm not suggesting we go to war with Russia. Just pointing out that when we asked Georgia for help in a fight they had no dog in, they sent some troops.

Agreed. If this enemy was on an Iraq level, our response might be different. All those ICBM's make you think twice, though.

[AURaptor 1,137]

In regard to you, here's the proof:

There's no 'proof' there of anything remotely hate filled. Just a collection of my former post. Where's the hate here ???

I was unaware that the USGS does the work for the oil companies. I was under the impression that oil companies paid their own geologist to survey their land, so THEY know more than anyone what's underneath the surface.

Silly me.

[arnaldoabru 11]

The sad thing, because of our dependence on foreign oil and Russia's growing clout as athe world's second largest oil producer, their is little we can do.

An interesing question- what if Georgia would have been a member of NATO?

[autigeremt 7,263]

The sad thing, because of our dependence on foreign oil and Russia's growing clout as athe world's second largest oil producer, their is little we can do.

An interesing question- what if Georgia would have been a member of NATO?

That IS a very interesting question.......NATO would had to have reacted, or face mass evacuations of it's members.

Then again, would Russia attack a NATO nation like this? Russia is a waking bear, but it's not on the same level as the U.S. at the moment. I give them 4 more years, and they will be where they were before the Cold War was over.

[AUTiger1 0]

The sad thing, because of our dependence on foreign oil and Russia's growing clout as athe world's second largest oil producer, their is little we can do.

An interesing question- what if Georgia would have been a member of NATO?

That IS a very interesting question.......NATO would had to have reacted, or face mass evacuations of it's members.

Then again, would Russia attack a NATO nation like this? Russia is a waking bear, but it's not on the same level as the U.S. at the moment. I give them 4 more years, and they will be where they were before the Cold War was over.

I agree autigermt, I have never liked Putin and didn't trust him from the get go. The move to accept the post of Prime Minister should show the world that he has no intention of losing grip of his power. If you ask me Medvedev is a puppet for him. Don't why he was expected to be trusted in the first place.

'I've looked into his eyes and seen his soul"

Shrub

Even his own advisors tried to tell him, Putin was former KGB and a damn good spy

I don't really think this is the first time a President has misread a Soviet leader.

"I think if I give [stalin] everything I possibly can, and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of peace and democracy." ---FDR

He even told his cabinet about Stalin that in his nature he found “the way in which a Christian gentleman should behave.”

Does it have any significant to this argument? Nope. Do I agree with the Bush Administration and their dealings with Putin, once again no.

To act like he is the only President to misread another world leader is wrong. It has happened and will happen again.

[arnaldoabru 11]

The sad thing, because of our dependence on foreign oil and Russia's growing clout as athe world's second largest oil producer, their is little we can do.

An interesing question- what if Georgia would have been a member of NATO?

That IS a very interesting question.......NATO would had to have reacted, or face mass evacuations of it's members.

Then again, would Russia attack a NATO nation like this? Russia is a waking bear, but it's not on the same level as the U.S. at the moment. I give them 4 more years, and they will be where they were before the Cold War was over.

I agree autigermt, I have never liked Putin and didn't trust him from the get go. The move to accept the post of Prime Minister should show the world that he has no intention of losing grip of his power. If you ask me Medvedev is a puppet for him. Don't why he was expected to be trusted in the first place.

'I've looked into his eyes and seen his soul"

Shrub

Even his own advisors tried to tell him, Putin was former KGB and a damn good spy

I don't really think this is the first time a President has misread a Soviet leader.

"I think if I give [stalin] everything I possibly can, and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of peace and democracy." ---FDR

He even told his cabinet about Stalin that in his nature he found “the way in which a Christian gentleman should behave.”

Does it have any significant to this argument? Nope. Do I agree with the Bush Administration and their dealings with Putin, once again no.

To act like he is the only President to misread another world leader is wrong. It has happened and will happen again.

The point is that Bush's total lack reading reports about the guy his people prepared and his general disregard for reading anything over a couple of paragraphs. He really believed he had this ability to read people by looking into their"souls". Again his own staff told him that Putin was not what he thought he was.He was trained KGB and a good one.Bush ignored his own reports and made decisions by "looking into his eyes"

[AUTiger1 0]

The sad thing, because of our dependence on foreign oil and Russia's growing clout as athe world's second largest oil producer, their is little we can do.

An interesing question- what if Georgia would have been a member of NATO?

That IS a very interesting question.......NATO would had to have reacted, or face mass evacuations of it's members.

Then again, would Russia attack a NATO nation like this? Russia is a waking bear, but it's not on the same level as the U.S. at the moment. I give them 4 more years, and they will be where they were before the Cold War was over.

I agree autigermt, I have never liked Putin and didn't trust him from the get go. The move to accept the post of Prime Minister should show the world that he has no intention of losing grip of his power. If you ask me Medvedev is a puppet for him. Don't why he was expected to be trusted in the first place.

'I've looked into his eyes and seen his soul"

Shrub

Even his own advisors tried to tell him, Putin was former KGB and a damn good spy

I don't really think this is the first time a President has misread a Soviet leader.

"I think if I give [stalin] everything I possibly can, and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of peace and democracy." ---FDR

He even told his cabinet about Stalin that in his nature he found “the way in which a Christian gentleman should behave.”

Does it have any significant to this argument? Nope. Do I agree with the Bush Administration and their dealings with Putin, once again no.

To act like he is the only President to misread another world leader is wrong. It has happened and will happen again.

The point is that Bush's total lack reading reports about the guy his people prepared and his general disregard for reading anything over a couple of paragraphs. He really believed he had this ability to read people by looking into their"souls". Again his own staff told him that Putin was not what he thought he was.He was trained KGB and a good one.Bush ignored his own reports and made decisions by "looking into his eyes"

True enough, FDR did the exact same thing by going against the advice of Churchill, it even frustrated Churchill that he did so. He also went against the fact that he knew that Stalin was a totalitarian and thought he could and would reason with him, but he didn't. FDR also "sensed" something in Stalin's nature. He also made his own decisions to follow his own instinct and he was wrong about the guy. All I am saying is that is has happened before and will continue to happen. Leaders misread each other all the time, it's not just this one isolated incident.

[LegalEagle 22]

Bush's failure to immediately return home from the Olympics sent a clear message that we would do nothing substantial to force Russia's retreat. He just kept smiling and dancing in the stands while Putin went home.

[autigeremt 7,263]

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA and MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI, Associated Press Writer

47 minutes ago

OUTSIDE GORI, Georgia - Russian troops and paramilitaries thrust deep into Georgia on Wednesday, rolling into the strategic city of Gori and violating the truce designed to end the six-day war that has uprooted 100,000 people and scarred the Georgian landscape.

Georgian officials said Gori was looted and bombed by the Russians, who denied the claim. An AP reporter later saw dozens of tanks and military vehicles leaving the city, roaring southeast.

Troops waved at journalists and one soldier shouted to a photographer: "Come with us, beauty, we're going to Tbilisi!" But the convoy turned north, left the highway about a hour's drive from the Georgian capital and started setting up camp.

To the west, Abkahzian separatist forces backed by Russian military might pushed out Georgian troops and even moved into Georgian territory, defiantly planting a flag.

"The border has been along this river for 1,000 years," separatist official Ruslan Kishmaria told AP on Wednesday. He said Georgia would have to accept the new border and taunted the retreating Georgian forces, saying they had received "American training in running away."

The developments came less than 12 hours after Georgia's president said he accepted a cease-fire plan brokered by France that called for both sides to retreat to their original positions. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Tuesday that Russia was halting military action because Georgia had paid enough for its attack last Thursday on South Ossetia.

Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili said the Western response has been inadequate. "I feel that they are partly to blame," he said. "Not only those who commit atrocities are responsible ... but so are those who fail to react."

Saakashvili gambled on a surprise attack late Thursday to regain control over South Ossetia. Instead, Georgia — a former Soviet state and current U.S. ally that wants to join NATO — suffered a punishing beating from Russian tanks and aircraft that has left the country with even less control over territory than before.

About 50 Russian tanks entered Gori on Wednesday morning, according to a top Georgian official, Alexander Lomaia. The city of 50,000 sits on Georgia's only significant east-west road about 15 miles south of South Ossetia, a separatist province where much of the fighting has taken place.

Russia's deputy chief of General Staff Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn insisted Wednesday that no tanks were in Gori. He said Russians went into the city to implement the truce with local Georgian officials but could not find any.

A Russian government official who wasn't authorized to give his name said that Russian troops checked a Georgian military base near Gori and found a lot of abandoned weapons and ammunition. Russian troops moved to take the supplies to a safe place as part of effort to demilitarize the area and protect civilians.

Nogovitsyn also said sporadic clashes continued in South Ossetia where Georgian snipers fired sporadically on Russian troops who returned fire. "We must respond to provocations," he said.

Russia has handed out passports to most in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and stationed peacekeepers in the both regions since the early 1990s. Georgia wants the Russian peacekeepers out, but Medvedev insisted Tuesday they would stay.

In the west, Georgian troops acknowledged Wednesday they had completely pulled out of a small section of Abkhazia which they had controlled — a development that leaves the entire area in the hands of the Russian-backed separatists.

"This is Abkhazian land," one separatist told an AP reporter over the Inguri River, saying they were laying claim to historical Abkhazian territory and that Georgian troops left without challenging them. The fighters had moved across a thin slice of land dotted with Georgian villages.

Georgia insisted its troops were driven out by Russian forces. At first, Russia said that separatists had done the job, not Russian forces. Nogovitsyn said Wednesday that Russian peacekeepers had disarmed Georgian troops in Kodori — the same peacekeepers that Georgia wants withdrawn.

The effect was clear. Abkhazia was out of Georgian hands and it would take more than an EU peace plan to get it back in.

One of two separatists areas trying to leave Georgia for Russia, Abkhazia lies close to the heart of many Russians. It's Black Sea coast was a favorite vacation spot for the Soviet elite, and the province is just down the coast from Sochi, the Russian resort that will host the 2014 Olympics.

Lomaia said Russian troops also still held the western town of Zugdidi near Abkhazia, controlling the region's main highway. An AP reporter saw a convoy of 13 Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers in Zugdidi's outskirts on Wednesday.

"There is no cease-fire," Saakashvili told CNN Wednesday. "We have a humanitarian disaster on our hands."

The first U.N. relief flight arrived in Georgia on Tuesday to help the tens of thousands uprooted by six days of fighting. Thousands of Georgian refugees have streamed into Tbilisi, the capital, or the western Black Sea coast while thousands more South Ossetian refugees headed north to Russia. Those left behind in devastated regions of Georgia cowered in rat-infested cellars or wandered nearly deserted cities.

Saakashvili said Russia had more sinister aims than to gain control of the two disputed provinces.

"Georgia is the first test case," he said. "It was chosen first because it was a very successful democracy. We had the highest economic growth rate here, we have freedom of press, civil society."

At a rally Tuesday, Saakashvili was joined by the leaders of five former Soviet bloc states — Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Ukraine — who also spoke out against Russian domination.

"Our neighbor thinks it can fight us. We are telling it no," said Polish President Lech Kaczynski.

Russia accused Georgia of killing more than 2,000 people, mostly civilians, in South Ossetia. The claim couldn't be independently confirmed, but witnesses who fled the area over the weekend said hundreds had died.

Georgia said Wednesday that 175 Georgians had died in five days of air and ground attacks that left homes in smoldering ruins, including some killed Tuesday in a Russian bombing raid of Gori just hours before Medvedev declared fighting halted.

An AP reporter also saw heavy damage from a raid Tuesday in a Georgian village near Gori. Two men and a woman in Ruisi were killed and another five were wounded.

"I always hide in the basement," said one villager, the 70-year old Vakhtang Chkhekvadze as he pulled off a window frame blasted by an explosion. "But this time the explosion came so abruptly, I don't remember what happened afterward."

The Russia-Georgia dispute also reached the international courts, with the Georgian security council saying it had sued Russia for alleged ethnic cleansing. For his part, Medvedev reiterated accusations that Georgia had committed "genocide" in trying to reclaim South Ossetia.

At the Beijing Olympics, Georgian women rallied Wednesday to beat their Russian counterparts in beach volleyball, the first head-to-head clash of the two nations.

"Russia and Georgia are actually friends. People are friends," said the Georgian beach volleyball team leader, Levan Akhtulediani. "But you know, it's not, in the 21st century, to bomb a neighbor country, it's not a good idea."

"I say once again, its better to compete on the field rather than outside the field," he added.