Vs Mizzou Post Game

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3 hours ago, metafour said:

Don't you find it a little coincidental that "talent" tends to magically not make plays for coaches that ultimately fail and get fired, but "talent" seemingly always makes plays for the most successful coaches in the game?

Do you think it just works out this way by chance? God flipped a coin, and decided that Saban's talent at Bama would make plays, but Jimbo Fisher's talent at A&M wouldn't?

My man, this game is much more intricate and complicated than simply throwing a bunch of guys on the field and saying "have at it, hoss."

If your talent is CONSISTENTLY not making plays, then you have a preparation and execution problem. If you have a preparation and execution problem, then you have a COACHING problem. PERIOD. 

yep. you referenced Chizik in another post. Chizik was able to get a generational talent at qb, had malzahn to call the game AND had senior packed O and D line. Chizik recruited well but could not get it all together in terms of coaching, coaches, and culture. but he could recruit. which is why when malzahn came back he was able to turn the win loss record around so quickly. malzahn is a pretty good coach in terms of organizing the coaches and building team culture. he had his in game issues, but thats not why he couldn't keep it going. his problem was he could recruit....specifically on the lines.

so exactly like you said. coaches have to do both.

[woodford 3,793]

13 hours ago, metafour said:

Bama with Saban, UGA with Smart, and A&M with Fisher all accumulated talent. Why did two of those scenarios lead to a boat load of wins, while the third led to complete collapse? Gene Chizik also accumulated talent - that ride fell apart in disaster two years after winning a national championship.

Here is the elephant in the room that you are missing: the teams in the SEC that accumulate the most talent are typically the ones with the best football resources/pedigree, which means that they ALSO tend to have the best actual coaches and program leaders. Talent acquisition and actual coaching ability are in most cases correlated.

So when you say "the way to win is to accumulate talent", you omit the fact that most of those teams that you see winning with talent also tend to have coaching staffs that run iron-tight ships and know how to mold all of that talent into winning teams. Saban, Smart, etc., etc. didn't just close their eyes and throw a bunch of 5-stars on the field and steam roll everyone.

The problem that should be becoming more and more apparent is that with each passing game Freeze looks more and more like Jimbo Fisher at A&M than he does those other guys that you are referring to who "accumulated talent". 

Miami is 7-0, but they also haven't beaten a single team worth anything this season. Their schedule is hilariously weak. The reality is that you can fly by the seat of your pants and rely on comebacks and late-game heroics vs. Cal, VTech, and Louisville - but that won't work against any similarly talented (or more talented) team. Cristobal is doing the same thing he was doing at Oregon: out-talent worse teams, but as soon as it was time to play the big game to get them to title contention they lost. His Miami team this season looks to be much of the same.

After winning what?

Never said that. Coaching is implied. Players don’t just show up and coach themselves. Proper leadership is obviously needed. My point is given the choice between some offensive wizard who doesn’t recruit and some regular CFB coach who brings in top 5 classes, I’m the taking the latter every single time. 
 

It’s been a frustrating year and he whiffed on PT. I get it. His year at MSU winning the Peach Bowl might be the ultimate outlier and skewed his ability. I understand why CHF thought he could get it done with better players. Freeze made the wrong decision and PT reminds him every Saturday. 
 

I’ve been as critical of Auburn (the institution) for the Harsin debacle as much as anyone and laugh all you want but this year has been some of the worst TO luck you’ll see in CFB. It is not sustainable. They will turn it around. 

[KansasTiger 3,365]

46 minutes ago, woodford said:

After winning what?

Never said that. Coaching is implied. Players don’t just show up and coach themselves. Proper leadership is obviously needed. My point is given the choice between some offensive wizard who doesn’t recruit and some regular CFB coach who brings in top 5 classes, I’m the taking the latter every single time. 
 

It’s been a frustrating year and he whiffed on PT. I get it. His year at MSU winning the Peach Bowl might be the ultimate outlier and skewed his ability. I understand why CHF thought he could get it done with better players. Freeze made the wrong decision and PT reminds him every Saturday. 
 

I’ve been as critical of Auburn (the institution) for the Harsin debacle as much as anyone and laugh all you want but this year has been some of the worst TO luck you’ll see in CFB. It is not sustainable. They will turn it around. 

Well that might be part of the issue with your line of thinking. I dont think we're getting this 'implied coaching'.

[keesler 5,990]

On 10/19/2024 at 2:58 PM, TigerOne said:

Definitely should be penalty clauses in coaches contracts. They have bonuses is you get certain benchmarks, at least Auburn hasn’t had to pay any of those.

Lol. Hugh gets a $225,000-year “retention bonus” every February just for staying at Auburn.  You can’t make this stuff up.  

[KansasTiger 3,365]

5 minutes ago, keesler said:

Lol. Hugh gets a $225,000-year “retention bonus” every February just for staying at Auburn.  You can’t make this stuff up.  

The one thing I didn't understand. When we hired Hugh the man wouod have crawled over glass to get here. He wanted back in big boy football, was practically begging us to hire him, and no one else besides us was going to give him a look. We had him in the best position leverage wise a school can have a coach they are trying to hire. And what did we do? Gave him the exact same contract layout we gave all our other coaches. 

[CoffeeTiger 6,035]

4 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

The one thing I didn't understand. When we hired Hugh the man wouod have crawled over glass to get here. He wanted back in big boy football, was practically begging us to hire him, and no one else besides us was going to give him a look. We had him in the best position leverage wise a school can have a coach they are trying to hire. And what did we do? Gave him the exact same contract layout we gave all our other coaches. 

https://sportsdata.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach

 

I agree head coaching money and contracts are stupidly high all across the board, but compared to the rest of the SEC, Hugh's contract isn't too bad for Auburn. bottom part of the SEC in terms of pay, and has one of the lower (through still high) buyouts in the league. 

 

Could we have still gotten Hugh cheaper? Maybe, but at least we aren't paying him an elite coaching salary. 

[KansasTiger 3,365]

Just now, CoffeeTiger said:

https://sportsdata.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach

 

I agree head coaching money and contracts are stupidly high all across the board, but compared to the rest of the SEC, Hugh's contract isn't too bad for Auburn. bottom part of the SEC in terms of pay, and has one of the lower (through still high) buyouts in the league. 

 

Could we have still gotten Hugh cheaper? Maybe, but at least we aren't paying him an elite coaching salary. 

I didn't have as much issue with his salary. Though it is still a bit high. It was his 70% (or something like that, i don't remember the exact number off the top of my head) garaunteed buyout. 

[Hank2020 3,441]

18 hours ago, DAG said:

No, more specifically was the first year of failed coordinators that we had to fire.  That was/is a major red flag. Then, the need to forego a transfer Qb who is comfortable in his system. Second red flag. Now he is recruiting great but what others fail to realize is it will take at least a couple of years for those recruits to make a true difference in the W-L column because they are young. 

Gotcha on the two strikes. Also agree it will take time for the recruits to make a difference. I don’t think anyone would disagree about his failure to bring in a portal QB. I also agree we should expect it to take a couple of years for the better recruits to make a difference. I think we all want a win, but definitely see it not being this year in the w/L column.

[DAG 35,455]

3 hours ago, Hank2020 said:

Gotcha on the two strikes. Also agree it will take time for the recruits to make a difference. I don’t think anyone would disagree about his failure to bring in a portal QB. I also agree we should expect it to take a couple of years for the better recruits to make a difference. I think we all want a win, but definitely see it not being this year in the w/L column.

I hope the rest of the fanbase considers this as well...young talent is still young and we will need to be patient with them.  Cam Coleman is a stud, but we see there are still some growing pains. As long as there is progression I believe fans will be content.

[PigskinPat 2,704]

8 hours ago, keesler said:

Lol. Hugh gets a $225,000-year “retention bonus” every February just for staying at Auburn.  You can’t make this stuff up.  

You’ve got to be kidding me?? So he gets almost a quarter of a million dollars every February just for sticking around and a multimillion dollar golden parachute if we fire him. Who are the morons negotiating our coaching contracts??

Edited 11 hours ago by PigskinPat

[keesler 5,990]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

I hope the rest of the fanbase considers this as well...young talent is still young and we will need to be patient with them.  Cam Coleman is a stud, but we see there are still some growing pains. As long as there is progression I believe fans will be content.

I’ve seen progression this season, a lot of progression, it’s just not translating to wins.  Hugh has to get wins or he won’t be around long. 

[DAG 35,455]

4 minutes ago, keesler said:

I’ve seen progression this season, a lot of progression, it’s just not translating to wins.  Hugh has to get wins or he won’t be around long. 

I honestly have not seen much progression. It is marginal at best, but I do believe with the young guys, we won't be able to hold them to the same standard as someone like PT. This is why it is pointless to start PT any longer, in my opinion. We might as well let the youth build confidence if we are losing right now because come year 3, this can't be happening. 

[keesler 5,990]

1 hour ago, PigskinPat said:

You’ve got to be kidding me?? So he gets almost a quarter of a million dollars every February just for sticking around and a multimillion dollar golden parachute if we fire him. Who are the morons negotiating our coaching contracts??

Not kidding lol.  They gave him an annual retention bonus, like Hugh was ever going to get a sniff from a program more acclaimed than AU. 

Reminds me of Gus and Sexton bending Auburn over a barrel and extorting a 7yr/$49mm guaranteed contract in 2017 because there was fear he’d leave for freaking Arkansas.  
 

If the Auburn Administration AND its boosters were doctors they’d be facing malpractice lawsuits left and right. 

[keesler 5,990]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

I honestly have not seen much progression. It is marginal at best, but I do believe with the young guys, we won't be able to hold them to the same standard as someone like PT. This is why it is pointless to start PT any longer, in my opinion. We might as well let the youth build confidence if we are losing right now because come year 3, this can't be happening. 

I guess what I’m calling progression is better attention to detail and protecting the ball better. There’s still mind numbing errors and frustrating execution issues. 

[PigskinPat 2,704]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

Not kidding lol.  They gave him an annual retention bonus, like Hugh was ever going to get a sniff from a program more acclaimed than AU. 

Reminds me of Gus and Sexton bending Auburn over a barrel and extorting a 7yr/$49mm guaranteed contract in 2017 because there was fear he’d leave for freaking Arkansas.  
 

If the Auburn Administration AND its boosters were doctors they’d be facing malpractice lawsuits left and right. 

And we did the same thing for Chizik. I mean, who did they think was going to try to steal Chizik away from us?? We make some of the most idiotic decisions and it ends up costing us millions of dollars.

[PigskinPat 2,704]

4 minutes ago, DAG said:

I honestly have not seen much progression. It is marginal at best, but I do believe with the young guys, we won't be able to hold them to the same standard as someone like PT. This is why it is pointless to start PT any longer, in my opinion. We might as well let the youth build confidence if we are losing right now because come year 3, this can't be happening. 

Yeah, I kind of feel like we peaked in the Alabama A&M game. 😂🤪

[keesler 5,990]

Just now, PigskinPat said:

And we did the same thing for Chizik. I mean, who did they think was going to try to steal Chizik away from us?? We make some of the most idiotic decisions and it ends up costing us millions of dollars.

When people say money is not an issue for Auburn, I believe it.  Auburn has blown through well over $100million the last 5 years buying out HC’s and dozens of coordinator’s and position coaches.  
 

Hugh and his staff make around $18million and he still may have to make changes at year-end, buying out salaries and making replacements. 

[KansasTiger 3,365]

13 minutes ago, DAG said:

I honestly have not seen much progression. It is marginal at best, but I do believe with the young guys, we won't be able to hold them to the same standard as someone like PT. This is why it is pointless to start PT any longer, in my opinion. We might as well let the youth build confidence if we are losing right now because come year 3, this can't be happening. 

If we are sitting vets who don't perform, can we sit Keionte Scott and Percy Lewis for the rest of the year, too? I mean, how can we not have anyone on roster better than what those two keep putting on the field?

[Bro Johnny Mac 1,479]

Freeze will be back next season.

If Freeze wasn’t recruiting well, he would be let go after this season is over. 
If he can keep this class together and not have a lot of guys transfer, he will get two more years, if he gets around 8 wins next year.

If he repeats this season next year, he may be gone regardless.

The bright spot seems to be that the players are still on board with Freeze. They are playing their guts out each week..

Edited 9 hours ago by Bro Johnny Mac

[e808 3,355]

47 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

If we are sitting vets who don't perform, can we sit Keionte Scott and Percy Lewis for the rest of the year, too? I mean, how can we not have anyone on roster better than what those two keep putting on the field?

I just sucks because there was anxiety of Scott leaving. Unfortunately it seems that would have been best for all involved and let one of the youngins get some burn. He been getting toasted