CHF Negativity - honest question

[Hank2020 3,429]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

That was his first year bud. What did he do his second and then his third year?  This literally is a terrible example. 

I show Sark at Texas 5-7,8-5, then 12-2.

[Hank2020 3,429]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

I am actually confused as what this poster is trying to prove with the Sark should’ve been fired after his first year at Texas. My point was he sucked his first year , improved his second year and his third year got them to the college playoffs. He showed steady improvement every year. 

I agree, I was confused in all that too. I don’t think the numbers he used were what I saw.

[creed 1,825]

3 hours ago, metafour said:

Here is a pretty easy one:

Jarquez Hunter is averaging 13 carries per game, in a season wherein he is averaging 6.8 yards per carry.

After last week's OU debacle, Freeze said that Jarquez needed to get more touches. He had 19 touches vs. Oklahoma, and 14 vs. Georgia. So after getting in front of a microphone and correctly pointing out that his 1A or 1B best offensive player needed to touch the ball more, we came back a week later and actually gave him the ball FEWER times.

I look at that as utilization not so much coaching to their abilities, like designing an offense around one's skillset. Also, an oponents defensive strategy dictates utilization. 

[fasttimes61 56]

freeze through 6 games this year has a worse record with more "talent" and an easier schedule. the question is, is this year a trend or an anomaly?

obv we won't know until we have more data points, but the split b/t "positivity" and "criticism" is what you think of ^^^that.

[fasttimes61 56]

here is something to ponder.

 

 

[Gowebb11 10,081]

A lot of fans are calling on the rest of us for patience and that’s fair. But what does Hugh and his staff owe us? How about proving that he doesn’t need perfect roster conditions to win a meaningful game? The past few weekends have been full of upsets. From Northern Illinois beating Notre Dame to Vandy beating Bama. Those with less doing more. Coaches finding a way to out scheme an opponent or devising a game plan to hide or overcome deficiencies. Hugh earned some goodwill last season with a 3 game SEC winning streak, then gave it back with a blowout loss to NMSU, a 4th and 31 Iron Bowl debacle, and an abomination of a bowl game. 
I’m thrilled with his recruiting and know he inherited a depleted roster. He also inherited one of the nations most tradition laden football schools, unsurpassed facilities, and best in class fan and booster support. 
Now he needs to pony up and pay it forward with a strong close 2024 including several wins. That’ll buy a lot more patience from me.   

[cbo 8,988]

2 hours ago, DAG said:

I am actually confused as what this poster is trying to prove with the Sark should’ve been fired after his first year at Texas. My point was he sucked his first year , improved his second year and his third year got them to the college playoffs. He showed steady improvement every year. 

Sark is exactly what we want to see from Hugh. We would all be happy with 8 wins this season. Improvement from year 1 to year 2.

The season isn't over yet. The next 4 games are winnable. It's time to start wining some. No one is saying to fire Freeze. But of course we are going to discuss the current state of the program. So far, the coaching on field hasn't been good enough. 

You know all of this but many don't.

Edited October 6 by cbo

[metafour 5,094]

1 hour ago, WillMunny said:

Cal and Arky are vastly improved over last season.

Our secondary is completely depleted and is the youngest and weakest part of our team, and that has really hurt this year.

We have played better, at least the past two games, than our record indicates.  I think we may surprise a couple teams this year.

We went to UGA and showed overall improvement.  Our defense is getting better, minus the growing pains in the secondary.  Our running game is getting better.  PT is improving.  And we have a week off to get healthy and prepare for Missouri.

Now I have a logic game for you: if we fire CHF after just two or three seasons, what good coach would be dumb enough to come replace him at Auburn?  We'd be lucky to get Rhett Lashlee.  As much as it hurts, I think we have to be patient and give Freeze a reasonable amount of time to rebuild.  

WRONG. We lost to Cal by 7-points in a game wherein we were -5 in turnovers. They were NOT better than us. If they were, that game would have been a blowout. You have to be pitifully average to only win by 7 points in a game where the other team hands you the ball 5 times.

Cal lost to 1-5 FSU: a team with a QB situation even worse than ours. What happened there? I love how people now want to pretend like Cal is good because they "almost" beat Miami, but they conveniently forget that Miami also almost lost to VTech just a week prior. In actuality, Cristobal's teams have a very bad habit of coming out dead asleep against worse teams, and needing late game comebacks to win. This is nothing new for Cristobal. Cal gave up 3 touchdowns in a 10-minute span vs. Miami to lose that game. Does that sound like a good team to you? 

If Cal and Arkansas are "vastly improved" as you suggest - why aren't we as well? What did Freeze do from year #1 to year #2? Auburn has more resources than both Arky and Cal combined.

You brought up our DB's: go look at Arkansas' QB's stats against us. The guy was PITTIFUL throwing the football. The only reason they won that game was again: TURNOVERS. They won by 10 points, and we were -3 in turnovers. Thorne actually outplayed their QB in the second half. Its entirely possible that we beat them had he played the whole game. Either way, our DB's were not why we lost that game.

Freeze needs to earn a 4th season, period. I haven't once said he needs to be fired in year 2, so don't put words into my mouth. 

 

[cbo 8,988]

As far as the offense improvements many are talking about, I guess I'm not seeing it. Maybe we are moving the ball better than last season? Hunter looks good but is never given an opportunity to take over or even finish a game. 

Outside of AL A&M and New Mexico, we have scored 14, 14, 21, and 13. That will not win many games. 

Last week the big spin was that turnovers are the problem; the offense works otherwise. Then we have zero turnovers against UGA and score 13 points, a season low. 

[KansasTiger 3,284]

8 minutes ago, WillMunny said:

I didn't put words in your big mouth.  You are hurting and angry.  We all are.  Chill.

Three years and the state of the transfer portal is enough to have almost the entire roster be HF guys. In fact, enough of the roster should be his by now to at least start seeing progression. That's what's alarming for many. We are seeing the opposite. Regression. 

I'd feel better if HF made actual adjustments. QB and WR are constantly not on the same page. Picks aside even, how many times have we seen the WR run a post and PT throw it to the sideline to no one? Happens like once or twice a half. So lessen the option route trees to lessen the miscommunications. We have a rb averaging nearly 7 yards a carry. Give him the ball more than 13 times a game and in goal line sets more.

Instead I'm seeing a coach who says the right things in Pressers and then keeps making the same mistakes in games. That's not an issue that's going to get better by giving him more time.

[fasttimes61 56]

1 hour ago, cbo said:

As far as the offense improvements many are talking about, I guess I'm not seeing it. Maybe we are moving the ball better than last season? Hunter looks good but is never given an opportunity to take over or even finish a game. 

Outside of AL A&M and New Mexico, we have scored 14, 14, 21, and 13. That will not win many games. 

Last week the big spin was that turnovers are the problem; the offense works otherwise. Then we have zero turnovers against UGA and score 13 points, a season low. 

yep. folks point to the stat sheet, but i don't see it either. zero consistency and like many have pointed out, hunter not getting nearly enough carries.

[AUx 3,291]

If 1980's history taught me anything (Superfriends every Saturday morning), Mr. Freeze is part of the Legion of Doom. Even so, he's on our side ...

Edited October 7 by AUx

[jknighton 319]

Regardless of how Harsin left the program, I believed CHF would go 7-6 with a bowl win in year 1. Year 2 I hoped for 8-5 with a bowl win. Obviously whatever our record is at the end of year 2 will be a disappointment. I honestly don't believe any decent HC would've taken this job after the Harsin debacle, so I can't help but wonder what if we had given Steele the interim tag instead of hiring Harsin. Im not saying Steele would've been the long term answer, but he would've been a far better choice than Harsin. With all that being said, I believe CHF will ultimately right the ship. Whether he will eventually prove that he is an upgrade over Gus though is TBD.

[PigskinPat 2,681]

18 hours ago, FelixWDE said:

Yes. I blame the Auburn coaching for the current offensive woes, 100%. Which is why I said they needed a new OC in a previous post.

Payton Thorne not working out is only partially the player's fault. That Auburn has PT, Hank, Holden and apparently none of them can run the RPO successfully, AND we're not running the ball is all on the coaches, which means Hugh.

You're focusing on the negative and saying Hugh hasn't adapted, etc. I'm focusing on the solution; get a new OC.

If it’s Freeze’s offense and Freeze is calling the plays, then how is getting a third OC in three years going to make anything better?

Edited October 7 by PigskinPat

[tbone4jc 2,493]

Thanks for this! I think we should let him get through two solid recruiting seasons. ‘24 being the first and ‘25 being the second. I really think it was his biggest mistake to trust PT this season and not getting a portal QB. But hindsight is 20/20.
I think we should let the younger players continue to get more reps. I think WW should get some game time reps just to see what at we have in him. There are quite a few experienced players that are not living up to expectations at it really is hurting the team. We may still be able to salvage this season with wins against Mizzu, KY, Vandy and A&M. We’ll see. I want to see improvement, no turnovers was a good start. Give Hunter at least 20 touches a game! And finally, CHF needs to stop trying to be cute with the play calling. 

[aubiefifty 18,502]

i think it all boils down to QB. freeze is now claiming on the fourth and one thorne did not run the play that was called. with a different qb we have a winning record and look better. it ultimately on freeze because he did not get another qb and it is kicking his behind. the team has extra time to heal and work on problems for a couple of weeks so maybe we see better results.

[AU9377 6,152]

20 hours ago, gabo4au said:

Great teams have great recruiting, great play calling, and great discipline. I've seen way too many posts suggesting you can consistently win with poor talent, pointing to the weekend games of Vandy and AK. It's simply not true, look at the last many years of playoffs and championships, there isn't even one example of a team with poor talent in there. Yes there are upsets by teams with poor talent, but not consistent winners.

 

My opinion: Coming off the Harsin years, and probably to some degree the Gus years, I doubt if we could have landed a coach that was good at all phases. A coach with all of those will first look to see if it's possible to recruit good players to the prospective job. If it's not, then why would they have any interest in that job? After the Gus/Harsin years it would be plausible that top candidates might have doubts that he could land top classes at AU.

 

So we did the smart thing, we got a guy that can at least prove you can recruit top classes to AU. Maybe he can learn to handle the rest, we'll see over time. However, if we have to move to another coach, at least the new hire will know that he can land top classes at AU. And he will come in without the cupboard being bare. In the age of trying to get back to a top level program it's a step in the right direction. Hopefully CHF will learn to handle all phases of a top program, if not, we're still moving the right direction. We just have to let it play out.

In what world do you view Gus and his recruiting and Harsin's recruiting in a similar light.  They are nothing alike.

But for Covid, we would have won 9 games in Malzahn's last year.  It was time for fresh ideas in the building, but we put ourselves in this position by making a terrible hire in Harsin and by allowing the defensive staff to tank recruiting in order to stage their own efforts to get the top job.

Edited October 7 by AU9377

[tbone4jc 2,493]

[tigerrules 588]

The QB situation seems to obvious to most of us. The OL quality is in repair and improving, but still has a long way to go. With the right QB some if these OL issues can be masked. 
 

honestly, if I was CHF I would be cranky too.  The lack of development by some players, and the regression of others, has to be incredibly frustrating. Some probably coaching issues and some player development issues. He has to feel his job and reputation are always in the line. 

[Gowebb11 10,081]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

But for Covid, we would have won 9 games in Malzahn's last year.

But we won 6. And everyone had Covid to deal with. Harsin was the wrong hire and I’m increasingly thinking so was Hugh. I hope I’m wrong on that part. 

Edited October 7 by Gowebb11

[e808 3,307]

19 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

But we won 6. And everyone had Covid to deal with. Harsin was the wrong hire and I’m increasingly thinking so was Hugh. I hope I’m wrong on that part. 

Respectfully context matters. The season was shortened and only played 10 regular season games. Yes everyone had to deal with it but  interesting that was the only year TAMU did something relevant. Those were 6 SEC wins . If u run both seasons together Auburn still doesn’t have 6 conference wins. IJS

[gabo4au 251]

4 hours ago, AU9377 said:

In what world do you view Gus and his recruiting and Harsin's recruiting in a similar light.  They are nothing alike.

But for Covid, we would have won 9 games in Malzahn's last year.  It was time for fresh ideas in the building, but we put ourselves in this position by making a terrible hire in Harsin and by allowing the defensive staff to tank recruiting in order to stage their own efforts to get the top job.

 

Oh sorry, I forgot we can't say anything even slightly negative about "Saint Gus!" I'll take 30 lashes and go to the corner.

[AU9377 6,152]

2 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

But we won 6. And everyone had Covid to deal with. Harsin was the wrong hire and I’m increasingly thinking so was Hugh. I hope I’m wrong on that part. 

Yes we won 6, but didn't play the three standard cupcake games that year.  Had we played those three, which we play every year, that would have been a 9 win season.  Part of the reason some pushed so hard to go ahead and do it that year was that they knew he would have likely squeaked out 8 wins the next year and justifying the payout would have been difficult.

[AU9377 6,152]

3 minutes ago, gabo4au said:

 

Oh sorry, I forgot we can't say anything even slightly negative about "Saint Gus!" I'll take 30 lashes and go to the corner.

There is plenty to say. I just don't do revisionist history well.  To lump him and Harsin together and act as though their part in roster issues was equal is just factually flawed in my opinion.

[gabo4au 251]

4 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

There is plenty to say. I just don't do revisionist history well.  To lump him and Harsin together and act as though their part in roster issues was equal is just factually flawed in my opinion.

 

Never said they were equal... Don't revisionist my post...

If you think Malzahn's recruiting was good in his last few years, then you're welcome to your opinion. But my opinion, which I'm also entitled too, is that his recruiting had fallen off especially OL recruiting. Harsin took it to depths we've never seen before.