CHF Negativity - honest question

[Cardin Drake 2,085]

1 hour ago, bishoptf said:

I have seen the back and forth in regards to the negativity (critical?) in regards to CHF current coaching performance. I can't speak for anyone else but I would say I have been more critical then negative but I guess that can be seen differently based on perspective. So the honest question I have for everyone is what IS the appropriate time period that we should be giving CHF. I am going to try to refrain from posting the rest of the season in regards to CHF performance but it just had me thinking what kind time frames do folks think that we should be giving to him. Maybe some believe that we should never be critical of CHF but I guess for me seeing all the comments I just wanted to know at what point does that change, year 3, year 4...etc.

War Eagle!  

I've always felt that at least 80% of a head coach's job is recruiting.  As long as that is going well, I'll be generally supportive.  Hugh has recruited extraordinarily well under very tough circumstances.  The reality is that the only thing left for us this season is to pull off an upset or two and each game will be huge.  We are likely to be the underdog in almost all of them.  I'm hoping we can do well enough not to affect this year's class.  That said, coaching decisions are always going to be analyzed and discussed. It's the right of fans everywhere. In hindsight, we should have gotten a transfer QB. Wish he had the kid from New Mexico State that went to Vandy. That was a fun game to watch, and he would excel in this offense.  Regardless, I am positive the program is heading in the right direction despite the disappointments on the field.  Gotta have faith and a few wins wouldn't hurt. 

[metafour 5,094]

Just now, Cardin Drake said:

Regardless, I am positive the program is heading in the right direction despite the disappointments on the field.

Why are you "POSITIVE"?

Explain to me what the difference is between Hugh Freeze, and Jimbo Fisher at A&M? Why will Freeze succeed? 

[WillMunny 1,648]

As bad as our talent level was after Gus and Harsin, Freeze will need two more years after this one to truly be in a position to challenge for an SEC championship.  I believe year five will bring excitement; until then, look forward to the Saturday BBQ more than the actual games.  The damage done by Gus and Harsin's recruiting will take that long to fix.

Having good players is one thing - we are getting them now.  But it takes time for them to mature and progress to the junior and senior levels where they learn how to lead and finish games.

I agree with @DAG (I believe he said this a day or so ago) - the yellow wood man and the rain man have probably secretly promised CHF five years to complete a rebuild.

[KansasTiger 3,284]

6 minutes ago, metafour said:

Why are you "POSITIVE"?

Explain to me what the difference is between Hugh Freeze, and Jimbo Fisher at A&M? Why will Freeze succeed? 

Because many Auburn fans come here wanting to FEEL good/better about the teams' situation rather than face the legitimate criticism being levied on HF and his staff. It's what the nest had turned into x100.

[DAG 35,374]

1 minute ago, WillMunny said:

As bad as our talent level was after Gus and Harsin, Freeze will need two more years after this one to truly be in a position to challenge for an SEC championship.  I believe year five will bring excitement; until then, look forward to the Saturday BBQ more than the actual games.  The damage done by Gus and Harsin's recruiting will take that long to fix.

Having good players is one thing - we are getting them now.  But it takes time for them to mature and progress to the junior and senior levels where they learn how to lead and finish games.

I agree with @DAG (I believe he said this a day or so ago) - the yellow wood man and the rain man have probably secretly promised CHF five years to complete a rebuild.

Yep, as long as he got the money behind him he will have time. It is what it is. Keep the recruiting class intact and get a transfer QB next year to help the transition of WW and Deuce. What scares me is potential transfers at the end of the season...that could set us back.

[metafour 5,094]

3 minutes ago, WillMunny said:

As bad as our talent level was after Gus and Harsin, Freeze will need two more years after this one to truly be in a position to challenge for an SEC championship.  I believe year five will bring excitement; until then, look forward to the Saturday BBQ more than the actual games.  The damage done by Gus and Harsin's recruiting will take that long to fix.

Having good players is one thing - we are getting them now.  But it takes time for them to mature and progress to the junior and senior levels where they learn how to lead and finish games.

I agree with @DAG (I believe he said this a day or so ago) - the yellow wood man and the rain man have probably secretly promised CHF five years to complete a rebuild.

Literally nobody is talking about competing for SEC championships right now. 

We are the 2nd worst team in the SEC standings. How many recruiting classes does Freeze need to win even 7 games?

Here is a logic game for you: if Harsin/Gus depleted the talent so badly, why are we on pace to win far fewer games this season than we won last season? There are more Freeze players on the roster this year than there were last year. We won 6 games and made a Bowl game last season. We beat both Cal and Arkansdas on the road last season.

[JDUBB4AU 5,379]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

He will be here next season. End of story. 

This. It’s Hugh’s job for the next 2 seasons minimum. He needs a qb and needs to hold the staff and recruiting class together. Stating the obvious really. Much like everyone here I am starving for a win on the field. 

[metafour 5,094]

1 hour ago, creed said:

Not coaching to maximize player ability.

Here is a pretty easy one:

Jarquez Hunter is averaging 13 carries per game, in a season wherein he is averaging 6.8 yards per carry.

After last week's OU debacle, Freeze said that Jarquez needed to get more touches. He had 19 touches vs. Oklahoma, and 14 vs. Georgia. So after getting in front of a microphone and correctly pointing out that his 1A or 1B best offensive player needed to touch the ball more, we came back a week later and actually gave him the ball FEWER times.

[e808 3,307]

So it appears that Gus and Harsin recruiting has set Auburn so far back that Auburns overall talent is worst than Arky, Mizzou , and Kentucky. It’s going to take or 4 or 5 years to see results which means some if not all of the freeze 4 will be a part of those results. Just inquiring 

[WarDamnDoc 405]

This team is pretty clearly dysfunctional right now.  How much of that is CHF vs Thorne plus a less dominant defensive backfield and some shoddy o-line play at times, is a bit hard to say right now.  I'm really not sure what to expect with a new QB next year, but we will find out because we're not firing Freeze this year regardless of the outcome.  I agree that we are not as bad as the record looks, but we're not good either.

Last night was a stark illustration of why this moment is so important.  There is blood in the water in t-town.  DeBoer is not a bad coach, but he's nothing like Nick Saban.  These next couple of years are our time to gain the upper hand and get back on the right side of the rivalry for the first time in over a decade, and start trending upward in a sustainable way.  I worry that CHF does not have us well-positioned to take advantage of this opportunity based on the results so far.  On the other hand, his in-state recruiting is exactly what you'd want to see.

Time will tell, but I think this is a critical juncture and we can't afford to screw it up again.

[Cardin Drake 2,085]

28 minutes ago, metafour said:

Why are you "POSITIVE"?

Explain to me what the difference is between Hugh Freeze, and Jimbo Fisher at A&M? Why will Freeze succeed? 

I'm positive because at least 80% of a head coach's job is recruiting.  We are finally getting talent that can compete with Alabama and Georgia. That is step one, and without it you will never be truly competitive. If he eventually can't win with that talent, then maybe we will have to make a change. But everything else besides talent is fixable. He can scrap his RPO and buy into a different offensive vision. He can change coordinators. But without talent, nothing else matters.  Hugh has done a great job getting us talent that is somewhat competitive quickly. I don't think anyone could have done better honestly, considering how depleted we were, and the recruiting barrier that goes with it. Has Hugh made mistakes?  Sure.  The season so far is a disaster, and there will be some soul-searching over the turnovers and next year's QB.  But the big picture is still very positive.  
 

[Gowebb11 10,081]

42 minutes ago, FelixWDE said:

IMO the difference between Vandy and Auburn is the QB. Pavia's expertise with his system vs Thorne, who still looks uncomfortable and lost at times in the RPO.

Knowing what we know now, it's pretty easy to say they'd be 4-1 right now if the offense had focused on the running game from the start. But it feels like Hugh's offense "has to" pass for some reason. I don't know if that's for recruiting reasons, or because heavy running teams can't come from behind, or some other reasons, but we don't have a QB who can run the RPO this year and that has been a drag on this whole season.

I don’t disagree but HF blamed last years struggles on him not being the play caller. Since, he brought in his guy Nix from OM, and put his guy Austin in charge of the QBs. And took over play calling duties. He has 4 QBs and a wealth of experience. At some point he has to adapt and overcome. He hasn’t. Vandy didn’t beat Bama yesterday just because of Pavia. They beat them by their coach overcoming roster deficits with scheme and having his players playing with in that scheme. 

[Gowebb11 10,081]

4 minutes ago, e808 said:

Auburns overall talent is worst than Arky, Mizzou , and Kentucky

And add Vandy to that list apparently. 

[e808 3,307]

Another thing CHF constantly says he needs to get Hunter more touches while all along knowing that’s not how his offense works. He prefers to throw it more and it’s evident on game plan. Why say something when that’s simply not who u are

[metafour 5,094]

Just now, Cardin Drake said:

I'm positive because at least 80% of a head coach's job is recruiting.  We are finally getting talent that can compete with Alabama and Georgia. That is step one, and without it you will never be truly competitive. If he eventually can't win with that talent, then maybe we will have to make a change. But everything else besides talent is fixable. He can scrap his RPO and buy into a different offensive vision. He can change coordinators. But without talent, nothing else matters.  Hugh has done a great job getting us talent that is somewhat competitive quickly. I don't think anyone could have done better honestly, considering how depleted we were, and the recruiting barrier that goes with it. Has Hugh made mistakes?  Sure.  The season so far is a disaster, and there will be some soul-searching over the turnovers and next year's QB.  But the big picture is still very positive.  
 

You didn't answer the question.

I specifically brought up Jimbo Fisher because he was doing the exact same thing that Freeze is doing now - "bringing in talent". A&M had the #1 class in 2022 and signed EIGHT (8) 5-star players.

Talent alone didn't help Fisher win, or keep his job. Again - why will it be different for Freeze? He has already had more talent and lost to inferior teams in his 1.5 seasons here. Do I need to remind you that we lost by 3 touchdowns to New Mexico State last season? Do you believe that they had "more talent" than us?

 

[FelixWDE 5]

2 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

I don’t disagree but HF blamed last years struggles on him not being the play caller. Since, he brought in his guy Nix from OM, and put his guy Austin in charge of the QBs. And took over play calling duties. He has 4 QBs and a wealth of experience. At some point he has to adapt and overcome. He hasn’t. Vandy didn’t beat Bama yesterday just because of Pavia. They beat them by their coach overcoming roster deficits with scheme and having his players playing with in that scheme. 

Yes. I blame the Auburn coaching for the current offensive woes, 100%. Which is why I said they needed a new OC in a previous post.

Payton Thorne not working out is only partially the player's fault. That Auburn has PT, Hank, Holden and apparently none of them can run the RPO successfully, AND we're not running the ball is all on the coaches, which means Hugh.

You're focusing on the negative and saying Hugh hasn't adapted, etc. I'm focusing on the solution; get a new OC.

[abw0004 10,420]

50 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

It's what the nest had turned into x100.

No need to be sour on the issue man.  You know that isn’t what the nest is about. 

[KansasTiger 3,284]

5 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

No need to be sour on the issue man.  You know that isn’t what the nest is about. 

I know exactly what the nest had become and why certain people weren't welcome. Not sour about it. 

[DAG 35,374]

Just now, KansasTiger said:

I know exactly what the nest had become and why certain people weren't welcome. Not sour about it. 

Think lord of the flies 

[Cardin Drake 2,085]

19 minutes ago, metafour said:

You didn't answer the question.

I specifically brought up Jimbo Fisher because he was doing the exact same thing that Freeze is doing now - "bringing in talent". A&M had the #1 class in 2022 and signed EIGHT (8) 5-star players.

Talent alone didn't help Fisher win, or keep his job. Again - why will it be different for Freeze? He has already had more talent and lost to inferior teams in his 1.5 seasons here. Do I need to remind you that we lost by 3 touchdowns to New Mexico State last season? Do you believe that they had "more talent" than us?

 

I did specifically answer the question.  If he brings in his talent, and we can't win, then perhaps he will have to go, just like Jimbo. But I think Freeze is much more honest and transparent with his players than Jimbo. The players are playing hard for Auburn and their coaches.   New Mexico State didn't have more talent than us, but they clearly had a much better quarterback.  You can't judge the direction of a program by individual wins and losses. Sark's first 2 years at Texas were very subpar, and he took a ton of heat for them. But he was bringing in talent, and that's what ultimately matters the most.  Jimbo is an outlier bringing in talent and not winning with it.  Do you really think we will be in a better place in two years if we bring a new coach in now?  

[abw0004 10,420]

3 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

I know exactly what the nest had become and why certain people weren't welcome. Not sour about it. 

I’m not quite sure you do understand then.   There is a difference between people being critical and those being toxic.

There are plenty of people being critical of Hugh on the Nest as we speak.  It’s just how you say it and treat others that is the key.

[e808 3,307]

6 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

I did specifically answer the question.  If he brings in his talent, and we can't win, then perhaps he will have to go, just like Jimbo. But I think Freeze is much more honest and transparent with his players than Jimbo. The players are playing hard for Auburn and their coaches.   New Mexico State didn't have more talent than us, but they clearly had a much better quarterback.  You can't judge the direction of a program by individual wins and losses. Sark's first 2 years at Texas were very subpar, and he took a ton of heat for them. But he was bringing in talent, and that's what ultimately matters the most.  Jimbo is an outlier bringing in talent and not winning with it.  Do you really think we will be in a better place in two years if we bring a new coach in now?  

I don’t think you want to use Sark . Look at his trajectory and look at CHF . He is 25-14. CHF is on pace to surpass the 14 losses this year

[KansasTiger 3,284]

Just now, abw0004 said:

I’m not quite sure you do understand then.   There is a difference between people being critical and those being toxic.

There are plenty of people being critical of Hugh on the Nest as we speak.  It’s just how you say it and treat others that is the key.

I like how this comment paints a certain picture. That me and others were toxic to people on the nest. When I never saw any of the banished people name call, demean, or even put down others. Just vehemently disagree with people.

When there were mods that actively did those things to us. I had a mod call me a b**** for not agreeing with his take on us acquiring sam jackson in the portal being impactful. He went back and deleted the post. But the sentiment was clear. We weren't welcome and were eventually booted.

I don't have any desire to rehash that. But I had to atleast counter your tainted and biased take on the situation.

[aucom96 1,661]

2 hours ago, aujohnson said:

I think we all see something different when we watch because we all look for different things. I feel like we are improving. If we play as good as we did against Oklahoma or Georgia then we beat Cal and Ark…and possibly Oklahoma.

You could say the same thing last season when we squeaked past Cal, got handled by A&M and then got close against UGA, then got blown out at home by New Mexico State and got close against bama. Hugh clearly has a problem preparing for every game. 

There are fans that are going to defend any coach while they're employed at Auburn and then destroy them afterwards. (See all the "we're still building the culture!" talk with Harsin or the "we're only running 25% of the playbook!" talk with Malzahn) There are those that are out for blood the second any coach shows weakness. Personally, I think Hugh was a short-sighted hire and I really don't like the guy, but he's getting at least four years barring losing the team completely. How his arc continues really will depend on the portal this off-season. If he treats it like he did this past off-season, next year won't be kind to him. 

[abw0004 10,420]

Just now, KansasTiger said:

I like how this comment paints a certain picture. That me and others were toxic to people on the nest. When I never saw any of the banished people name call, demean, or even put down others. Just vehemently disagree with people.

When there were mods that actively did those things to us. I had a mod call me a b**** for not agreeing with his take on us acquiring sam jackson in the portal being impactful. He went back and deleted the post. But the sentiment was clear. We weren't welcome and were eventually booted.

I don't have any desire to rehash that. But I had to atleast counter your tainted and biased take on the situation.

I remember the mod doing that, and it wasn’t right.  You don’t deserve that, nobody does.

There was a reason why people had to be removed from the Nest, and some of those are completely banned from the forum now.  There was indeed name calling and demeaning.

What I am trying to point out is mocking people that are on the Nest, or the Nest itself only proves my point.  That’s all.  I’m not saying you are a bad person, so please don’t take it that way.