Franken drinks the kool-aid, gets called out by Maher

[DKW 86 7,899]

Funny @ 1:00 

Franken not being able to call out Biden's tariffs on cars is EVERYTHING wrong in American politics. If it is wrong, it is F'IN wrong. F the Party. Maher does the dreaded follow up and Franken has to s*** his brains out his @$$ to not part from party dogma. A tariff is always a tax on the middle class. VPKH said so openly. trump is playing dumb on this to fool the Rubes. Problem: Biden Admin has placed a tax on Chinese Cars and Franken literally takes a dump on intellectualism and truth trying to deny what VPKH admits and so does everyone with a brain across the globe. 

3:40 and Franken finally admits what everyone in the room knows, AND IT KILLS HIM TO HAVE TO PUT THE KOOL-AID DOWN FOR A MINUTE. Kudos that he finally did put the Kool-Aid down after Maher shamed him into it. 

 

Edited Sunday at 02:52 PM by DKW 86

[TexasTiger 14,276]

5 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

40 and Franken finally admits what everyone in the room knows, AND IT KILLS HIM TO HAVE TO PUT THE KOL-AID DOWN FOR A MINUTE. Kudos that he finally did put the Kool-Aid down after Mahrr shamed him into it. 

He was talking about Trump in the context of Trump continually misstating that China pays them. 

[DKW 86 7,899]

18 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

He was talking about Trump in the context of Trump continually misstating that China pays them. 

For about 30 seconds yes. But he still dodged the “Cars” tariff twice. But still finally answered it by saying it, yes it was wrong. 

Edited Sunday at 02:53 PM by DKW 86

[TexasTiger 14,276]

12 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

For about 30 seconds yes. But he still dodged the “Cars” tariff twice. But still finally answered it by saying it ayes it was wrong. 

I think they were just on different tracks— Trump is wanting to place tariffs on almost everything. Almost all electronics come from China. They’re one thing that’s comparatively cheaper than they were 30+ years ago. Al was focused on that.
 

Both missed the rationale for cars— China heavily subsidizes their EVs, making the competition very unfair. We need an auto manufacturing industry, not just for good jobs but for potential defense capacity in the event of an extended war. We don’t really compete in TVs, etc.

[DKW 86 7,899]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

I think they were just on different tracks— Trump is wanting to place tariffs on almost everything. Almost all electronics come from China. They’re one thing that’s comparatively cheaper than they were 30+ years ago. Al was focused on that.
 

Both missed the rationale for cars— China heavily subsidizes their EVs, making the competition very unfair. We need an auto manufacturing industry, not just for good jobs but for potential defense capacity in the event of an extended war. We don’t really compete in TVs, etc.

And you still miss the point. All tariffs are taxes on the middle class.

[TexasTiger 14,276]

52 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

And you still miss the point. All tariffs are taxes on the middle class.

Ok. Does that mean you think all tariffs are indistinguishable and unwarranted?

[DKW 86 7,899]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Ok. Does that mean you think all tariffs are indistinguishable and unwarranted?

Well like educated people would say, yes. Some may be politically expedient but still wrong, as Franken finally admitted. 

[TexasTiger 14,276]

6 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Well like educated people would say, yes. Some may be politically expedient but still wrong, as Franken finally admitted. 

So the whole strategic argument of maintaining industrial capacity instead of allowing China to force us to shutdown that capacity doesn’t make sense to you?

[DKW 86 7,899]

3 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

So the whole strategic argument of maintaining industrial capacity instead of allowing China to force us to shutdown that capacity doesn’t make sense to you?

We weren’t and they weren’t talking about that. The topic was what effect tariffs had on the American People. You are doing the strawman thing really well tonite. Why can’t you just admit that Biden’s Chinese Car Tariffs were a bad idea. Even Franken begrudgingly admitted that. After being followed up on the question 2x. 

Edited Sunday at 03:53 AM by DKW 86

[TexasTiger 14,276]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

We weren’t and they weren’t talking about that. The topic was what effect tariffs had on the American People. You are doing the strawman thing really well tonite. Why can’t you just admit that Biden’s Chinese Car Tariffs were a bad idea. Even Franken begrudgingly admitted that. After being followed up on the question 2x. 

Because I actually think they’re a great idea. The industry is moving to EVs and if our vehicle manufacturing tanks because China subsidizes theirs to weaken our ability to mobilize during wartime — and yes, they are that strategic— that would be supremely stupid.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31994388/us-auto-industry-medical-war-production-history/

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/02/21/1068880/how-did-china-dominate-electric-cars-policy/amp/

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-slaps-tariffs-of-up-to-38-on-chinese-electric-vehicles/a-69557494#:~:text=The European Commission has said,received by Chinese EV makers.

If you think the USA & Europe should bend over for China to mount us so folks can buy cheaper Chinese EVs, I’d say that’s extremely short term thinking. I agree with Maher more often than not, but he’s often marginally informed on matters for which he takes strong, but overly simplistic, opinions and this is one of them.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,666]

You might be the only person I’ve ever seen hold as much weight to Maher’s opinions that I’ve ever met. Not that that’s a bad thing—he’s your dude—but I literally never hear anyone ever mention the guy’s name anymore except here. 

He’s basically a Dennis Miller or Geraldo in terms of relevancy at this point. 

Edited Sunday at 05:46 AM by ShocksMyBrain

[TexasTiger 14,276]

49 minutes ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

You might be the only person I’ve ever seen hold as much weight to Maher’s opinions that I’ve ever met. Not that that’s a bad thing—he’s your dude—but I literally never hear anyone ever mention the guy’s name anymore except here. 

He’s basically a Dennis Miller or Geraldo in terms of relevancy at this point. 

Well, he does have an HBO show and tours successfully— but he’s a comedian. Not the funniest, but that’s his profession. He may make some interesting observations, but he’s still an entertainer trying to provoke a response.

[DKW 86 7,899]

7 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Because I actually think they’re a great idea. The industry is moving to EVs and if our vehicle manufacturing tanks because China subsidizes theirs to weaken our ability to mobilize during wartime — and yes, they are that strategic— that would be supremely stupid.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31994388/us-auto-industry-medical-war-production-history/

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/02/21/1068880/how-did-china-dominate-electric-cars-policy/amp/

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-slaps-tariffs-of-up-to-38-on-chinese-electric-vehicles/a-69557494#:~:text=The European Commission has said,received by Chinese EV makers.

If you think the USA & Europe should bend over for China to mount us so folks can buy cheaper Chinese EVs, I’d say that’s extremely short term thinking. I agree with Maher more often than not, but he’s often marginally informed on matters for which he takes strong, but overly simplistic, opinions and this is one of them.

Oh, okay. You are just doing the mindless Biden thingy. Biden’s tariffs are great, even though they hurt the middle class? But trumps mindless tariffs are bad because they hurt the middle class. You are one of the people I sited in the OP. You are what’s wrong with politics in America. You are just a mindless hack and nothing more. If the Democrats went back to owning slaves you would probably support that too. Even Franken finally admitted that the Biden tariffs were bad, AFTER Maher kicked his head in on a Nationwide show. But you can’t even do that. THAT dude, was THE WHOLE POINT of the OP. And you are admitting that you are such a Biden sycophant that you still can’t see that even after Maher made Franken look like a complete ass. 

Edited Sunday at 11:49 AM by DKW 86

[DKW 86 7,899]

6 hours ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

You might be the only person I’ve ever seen hold as much weight to Maher’s opinions that I’ve ever met. Not that that’s a bad thing—he’s your dude—but I literally never hear anyone ever mention the guy’s name anymore except here. 

He’s basically a Dennis Miller or Geraldo in terms of relevancy at this point. 

You people are a scream. I am surprised you can see the keyboard with your lips permanently kissing the Biden ass. The whole segment was on the DNC saying that trump’s tariff proposals were the product of a stupid ****. They were and are correct. Maher points out, using DNC logic, VPKH logic, that tariffs are not hurting the Chinese one bit, they aren’t. Tariffs only hurt American Citizens, as the DNC and VPKH said. Franken then was called out that YES, Biden’s Tariffs are just as bad as trump’s. 
 

You two are such sycophants that you can’t see that YOU TWO are telling us that the DNC is Wrong, VPKH is wrong, just so you can defend Biden’s Tariffs.
 

Everyone reading this KNOWS Biden and Trump are wrong. But you two knee jerks are still doing the sycophant thing and defending what everyone knows is indefensible. 
 

Way to go guys… Taking a crap on your education and your degrees is a bad look 24-7-365. 
 

So, in summation, yall are clearly saying that: The DNC, VPKH are both wrong. That American Academia is wrong. That Biden and Trump are right. That is your position on this topic. You are going to side with Biden and against American Academics, the DNC, and VPKH. 

Edited Sunday at 11:47 AM by DKW 86

[TexasTiger 14,276]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Oh, okay. You are just doing the mindless Biden thingy. Biden’s tariffs are great, even though they hurt the middle class? But trumps mindless tariffs are bad because they hurt the middle class. You are one of the people I sited in the OP. You are what’s wrong with politics in America. You are just a mindless hack and nothing more. If the Democrats went back to owning slaves you would probably support that too. Even Franken finally admitted that the Biden tariffs were bad, AFTER Maher kicked his head in on a Nationwide show. But you can’t even do that. THAT dude, was THE WHOLE POINT of the OP. And you are admitting that you are such a Biden sycophant that you still can’t see that even after Maher made Franken look like a complete ass. 

It has nothing to do with Biden. Trump putting a tariff on Chinese EVs makes sense, too. Canada did it. Makes sense. EU did it. Makes sense. You’re an Ideologue on tariffs. There are competing issues. All tariffs aren’t equal and some are applied for different reasons. The EU focuses more on a level playing field. Over the last 50 years we have built China into a major threat. Allowing them to decimate all our manufacturing capability would be suicidal.

Allowing them to provide computerized cars that gather and transmit information and can be controlled remotely is an additional risk. China is not our friend. We’d hoped we’d open them up and integrate them into the world in ways that would promote freedom and democracy within their borders. Hasn’t happened. In fact, they’ve modeled the controlling state. They seek world dominance. They’ve sought to control rare earths essential to modern technology, including weapons technology. This is a more complex issue than the Joneses getting a subsidized EV from China.

 

 

[AUDub 11,833]

There is a nuanced position on tariffs that Tex is expertly spelling out here, David.

There’s very much a balance between free trade and protectionism. Finding that balance can be difficult. 

[DKW 86 7,899]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

It has nothing to do with Biden. Trump putting a tariff on Chinese EVs makes sense, too. Canada did it. Makes sense. EU did it. Makes sense. You’re an Ideologue on tariffs. There are competing issues. All tariffs aren’t equal. Over the last 50 years we have built China into a major threat. Allowing them to decimate all our manufacturing capability would be suicidal.

 

You’ve actually gotten worse. Please see your doctor.

Then go do what we have to do and out-compete them. Tariffs should only be extremely temporary and reviewed every 3-6 months. The answer to this is to give other manufacturers a temp break so they can improve their ops. Giving out tariffs cripples manufacturing while taxes the middle class if they are left in place.

 

[DKW 86 7,899]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

There is a nuanced position on tariffs that Tex is expertly spelling out here, David.

There’s very much a balance between free trade and protectionism. Finding that balance can be difficult. 

Then do it as Reagan did it, TEMPORARILY. Hell, even Franken admitted, finally, that they were a bad idea.

Edited Sunday at 02:50 PM by DKW 86

[TexasTiger 14,276]

24 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Then go do what we have to do and out-compete them. Tariffs should only be extremely temporary and reviewed every 3-6 months. The answer to this is to give other manufacturers a temp break so they can improve their ops. Giving out tariffs cripples manufacturing while taxes the middle class if they are left in place.

 

This is a national security issue. This also applies to medical supplies we had become totally reliant on China for and saw the problems created by over reliance on a single source when supply chains broke down. Some of Biden’s tariffs are designed to address that, too. The pandemic exposed a number of vulnerabilities created by practices designed almost exclusively to provide the lowest cost goods. There’s a balance that needs to be thoughtfully assessed.

[DKW 86 7,899]

Tariffs hurt consumers because it increases the price of imported goods. 

https://www.investopedia.com/news/what-are-tariffs-and-how-do-they-affect-you/#:~:text=Tariffs hurt consumers because it,the form of higher prices.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/what-tariff-and-who-pays-it

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-are-tariffs

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-are-tariffs-and-why-are-they-rising/

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-09-04/trump-and-vance-are-dead-wrong-economists-agree-that-u-s-tariffs-are-a-tax-on-american-consumers

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/trump-tariffs-biden-tariffs/

https://quizlet.com/155828945/trade-barriers-flash-cards/

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/us-tariffs-are-arbitrary-and-regressive-tax

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-tariffs-proposal-10-percent-1700-cost-per-us-household/

https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/2024/can-trump-replace-income-taxes-tariffs

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-9/the-effects-of-tarifff-rates-on-the-u-s-economy-what-the-producer-price-index-tells-us.htm

and so on....

[DKW 86 7,899]

47 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

This is a national security issue. This also applies to medical supplies we had become totally reliable on China for and saw the problems created by over reliance on a single source when supply chains broke down. Some of Biden’s tariffs are designed to address that, too. The pandemic exposed a number of vulnerabilities created by practices designed almost exclusively to provide the lowest cost goods. There’s a balance that needs to be thoughtfully assessed.

So you are agreeing with me. The pandemic is over and there ios no more need for the tariffs. If we have a national security issue with China, Taiwan making microchips, then that is the fault of the federal govt. They should have never allowed that to take place. There is nothing you can do to overcome idiots making bad policy.

 

Edited Sunday at 03:44 PM by DKW 86

[TexasTiger 14,276]

20 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

So you are agreeing with me. The pandemic is over and there ios no more need for the tariffs. If we have a national security issue with China, Taiwan making microchips, then that is the fault of the federal govt. They should have never allowed that to take place. There is nothing you can do to overcome idiots making bad policy.

 

Not agreeing at all. The pandemic exposed vulnerabilities that need to be addressed, but that’s just one issue in an array of complex considerations.

Bipartisan legislation passed to address chip manufacturing in this country. It will take time, but it was overdue and needed.

[wdefromtx 3,603]

27 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

So you are agreeing with me. The pandemic is over and there ios no more need for the tariffs. If we have a national security issue with China, Taiwan making microchips, then that is the fault of the federal govt. They should have never allowed that to take place. There is nothing you can do to overcome idiots making bad policy.

 

Chalk it up to unintended consequences of policies we enact here. Ray Charles can see that if you have regulation that makes it more expensive a company will go elsewhere. 

Whether or not it was bad policy is irrelevant, I am sure some of the policies were needed, some may not have been. 

I think certain items should be targeted to promote the manufacturing back here. 

Tawain knew what they were doing when they started making all the microchips. It's their "insurance policy" that the western world would step in and defend them. Which is why very few companies make most of the microchips.

I am fine with them increasing the 25% tariff up to 100% on EV's, it's a good move for the environment, based on emissions to build in China vs in a country with regs. 

Aaaaannnndddd, a tariff on Chinese Ev's will make US manufacturers invest more in better long-term solutions such as carbon capture and synthetic fuels. Which is actually a more sustainable path than EV's which at the moment are equal in their carbon footprint to ICE counterparts. 

 

Edited Sunday at 03:33 PM by wdefromtx

[homersapien 12,226]

Here's what it would take for us to "compete" with China on EVs:

1. Provide all the capital required for EV manufacturing from the U.S. Treasury (communism).
2. Pay the workers less than a living wage.
3. Ignore all environmental and other regulations which might affect the bottom line.

TT is correct. Electric vehicles are a prime example of instituting tariffs - for the sake of fairness to our EV industry as well as for our national security.

Edited Monday at 09:48 PM by homersapien

[DKW 86 7,899]

18 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Chalk it up to unintended consequences of policies we enact here. Ray Charles can see that if you have regulation that makes it more expensive a company will go elsewhere. 

Whether or not it was bad policy is irrelevant, I am sure some of the policies were needed, some may not have been. 

I think certain items should be targeted to promote the manufacturing back here. 

Tawain knew what they were doing when they started making all the microchips. It's their "insurance policy" that the western world would step in and defend them. Which is why very few companies make most of the microchips.

I am fine with them increasing the 25% tariff up to 100% on EV's, it's a good move for the environment, based on emissions to build in China vs in a country with regs. 

Aaaaannnndddd, a tariff on Chinese Ev's will make US manufacturers invest more in better long-term solutions such as carbon capture and synthetic fuels. Which is actually a more sustainable path than EV's which at the moment are equal in their carbon footprint to ICE counterparts. 

 

So, how long do 5 American Companies get to overcharge? 5 Years? 10 Years? 20 Years? Who makes the decision? Who is doing the reviewing? How do we know that the American Companies arent just buying these people off to keep their profits higher? Who insured the American Consumer isn't getting screwed over an over for years?