Debate thread (Sept. 10)

[economystupid 60]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

I’m just stating reality when it comes to how people typically vote. 
 

You can refute what you think about each candidate, but I challenge you to point out where I’m wrong with why I don’t think that debate changed much. 

Pluto it is.

[Didba 5,510]

10 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Incorrect. Quit trying to speak for everyone.
 

I know several that voted for Biden that think there is some sort of fraud that happened. 

That demographic may vote for Harris, but you then have to include the men on that age range as well. Younger men do not support Harris near as much as younger women do based on polling. 

 

I bet those people “who voted for Biden” you are referring to never voted Democrat before 2020. I anticipate they would characterize themselves as independents. 

Younger men are not nearly as polarized by any issue today as young women are by reproductive rights.

Young men aren’t holding marches/protests with thousands in attendance on any issue. Young women are. 

Edited September 11 by Didba

[AU9377 6,037]

8 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Incorrect. Quit trying to speak for everyone.
 

I know several that voted for Biden that think there is some sort of fraud that happened. They don’t think it caused him to win but they think something weird happened, they just don’t know what. 

That demographic may vote for Harris, but you then have to include the men on that age range as well. Younger men do not support Harris near as much as younger women do based on polling. 

 

We  know for a fact that fraud did not play a part in Biden winning in 2020.  That is not "what we think" but is a fact.  Georgia, Michigan, Arizona, Nevada and Pennsylvania all conducted forensic audits, which resulted in a confirmation of the results.  Every legal challenge was dismissed and they were not all dismissed as Trump claimed due to a lack of standing.  The majority were dismissed due to a total lack of evidence.  The cases lost due to a lack of standing were brought by individuals in states that had no standing.

Edited September 11 by AU9377

[Didba 5,510]

5 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I’m just stating reality when it comes to how people typically vote. 

You aren’t stating “reality.” You are stating what you think the reality is when it comes to how people typically vote. It’s anecdotal at best. 

[Didba 5,510]

1 minute ago, AU9377 said:

We  know for a fact that fraud did not play a part in Biden winning in 2020.  That is not "what we think" but is a fact.  Georgia, Michigan, Arizona, Nevada and Pennsylvania all conducted forensic audits, which resulted in a confirmation of the results.  Every legal challenge was dismissed and they were not all dismissed as Trump claimed due to a lack of standing.  The majority were dismissed due to a total lack of evidence.  The cases lost due to a lack of standing were brought by individuals in states that had no standing.

As a lawyer, thank you for stating this so I don’t have to. 

[economystupid 60]

1 minute ago, AU9377 said:

We  know for a fact that fraud did not play a part in Biden winning in 2020.  That is not "what we think" but is a fact.  Georgia, Michigan, Arizona, Nevada and Pennsylvania all conducted forensic audits, which resulted in a confirmation of the findings.  Every legal challenge was dismissed and they were not all dismissed as Trump claimed due to a lack of standing.  The majority were dismissed due to a total lack of evidence.  The cases lost due to a lack of standing were brought by individuals in states that had no standing.

But wait I saw Melissa Carone and Rudy give that oh-so-persuasive presentation in Michigan.....didn't you see that?

[cbo 8,795]

32 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Got to talk about the cat in the room...........the Haitians eating cats......I agree that on the surface it looks nuts and the moderators tried like hell to make him look stupid. But, has anyone done their research on this? There is something obviously going on there. Images of people getting ducks out of the parks for food or whatever. I talked to a colleague who lives up that way this morning and he said, yes there seems to be this stuff happening. He has not seen it personally with dogs and cats, but the going through trash and hunting for food in the public parks is a real thing. In his opinion the immigrants were just dumped there and left to survive, and local officials are doing what they can to not draw attention to it.  I think this is another case of the true situation will come to light. 

Have you done your research on this? How do you know "there is something obviously going on here?"

A woman in Ohio killed her neighbor's cat and ate it. She is not Haitian. She is a crazy person who is in jail. 

There is one picture making the rounds of a Haitian carrying a dead goose. No one knows what happened before or after the picture. I do know that lots of people eat geese and very few have geese as pets. 

All of this fueled a rumor that Haitians are eating pets, which originated from a neo-Nazi online group and later went viral on Facebook. Now the dumbest people on earth won't shut up about it, including Vance and Trump. 

Several city officials have debunked the claims. 

"I think it's sad that some people are using this as an opportunity to spread hate or spread fear," said Jason Via, deputy director of public safety and operations. "We get these reports 'the Haitians are killing ducks in a lot of our parks' or 'the Haitians are eating vegetables right out of the aisle at the grocery store.' And we haven't really seen any of that. It's really frustrating. As a community, it's not helpful as we try to move forward."

It is completely irresponsible for Trump to make these claims on national TV and for Vance to spread them all over Twitter. It is dangerous and racist. They probably know it is not true but they also know people like you will say "there is obviously something going on here." At that point it's already mission accomplished.

 

[TitanTiger 21,249]

45 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Got to talk about the cat in the room...........the Haitians eating cats......I agree that on the surface it looks nuts and the moderators tried like hell to make him look stupid. But, has anyone done their research on this? There is something obviously going on there. Images of people getting ducks out of the parks for food or whatever. I talked to a colleague who lives up that way this morning and he said, yes there seems to be this stuff happening. He has not seen it personally with dogs and cats, but the going through trash and hunting for food in the public parks is a real thing. In his opinion the immigrants were just dumped there and left to survive, and local officials are doing what they can to not draw attention to it.  I think this is another case of the true situation will come to light. 

How do people get to make some wild-ass claim like "Haitians are eating our pets" and it's on normal people to disprove it?  You don't get to say crazy s*** like that and then put the onus on everyone else to show it isn't happening.  And no, anecdotes != evidence.

[wdefromtx 3,611]

10 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

We  know for a fact that fraud did not play a part in Biden winning in 2020.  That is not "what we think" but is a fact.  Georgia, Michigan, Arizona, Nevada and Pennsylvania all conducted forensic audits, which resulted in a confirmation of the results.  Every legal challenge was dismissed and they were not all dismissed as Trump claimed due to a lack of standing.  The majority were dismissed due to a total lack of evidence.  The cases lost due to a lack of standing were brought by individuals in states that had no standing.

I never said what you think. I said, that according to polls there are some democrats that think some fraud took place. Also, I know several that said they think some type of fraud occurs. This is fact. 

You are trying to argue a point that is irrelevant to what I said. My point is still true, that the election fraud topic and his denial of it is going to hit differently with everyone because some people whether you like it or not have doubts and Trump denying it will hold less weight than some with someone, he doesn't think there is fraud or was any fraud. 

 

[creed 1,791]

2 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

The strategic disaster for our children of these 2 candidates.

Agree. The term "existential threat" to democracy is used a lot and I contend  THE FEDERAL DEFICIT is the main existential threat to democracy. Maybe not in my lifetime, but many on this forum's children and grandchildren will pay the bill, and one's rights will possible be restricted. At that point your party affilication will not help. 

Note: Maybe defict was mentioned in the debate but not a real discussion on "how are you going to solve" the issue. 

[wdefromtx 3,611]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

How do people get to make some wild-ass claim like "Haitians are eating our pets" and it's on normal people to disprove it?  You don't get to say crazy s*** like that and then put the onus on everyone else to show it isn't happening.  And no, anecdotes != evidence.

Here's why some people will give him the benefit of the doubt. There's obviously something going on there. And.............remember Hunter Biden's laptop? Remember when everyone was told he was crazy, and it was a conspiracy? 

He was right, the media lied. I think some people will remember that and people will shrug off his statements. 

At this point most people know that he is on the crazy side, but people are also aware that the media tries to do everything possible to make him look worse. People will tolerate crazy, but not bat-s*** crazy and one has to figure out where on that spectrum he is and is it worse than Harris. 

[TitanTiger 21,249]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Here's why some people will give him the benefit of the doubt. There's obviously something going on there. And.............remember Hunter Biden's laptop? Remember when everyone was told he was crazy, and it was a conspiracy? 

He was right, the media lied. I think some people will remember that and people will shrug off his statements. 

At this point most people know that he is on the crazy side, but people are also aware that the media tries to do everything possible to make him look worse. People will tolerate crazy, but not bat-s*** crazy and one has to figure out where on that spectrum he is and is it worse than Harris. 

But it doesn't deserve benefit of the doubt.  And a ******* PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE should be the last one running with some rumor like that on a national stage.  Until you have something solid in terms of proof, don't make the claim.  Period.

We all understood this 17 minutes ago but now we just run with nutjob nonsense like this because "something is happening."

[economystupid 60]

3 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Here's why some people will give him the benefit of the doubt. There's obviously something going on there. And.............remember Hunter Biden's laptop? Remember when everyone was told he was crazy, and it was a conspiracy? 

He was right, the media lied. I think some people will remember that and people will shrug off his statements. 

At this point most people know that he is on the crazy side, but people are also aware that the media tries to do everything possible to make him look worse. People will tolerate crazy, but not bat-s*** crazy and one has to figure out where on that spectrum he is and is it worse than Harris. 

Trump is wrong, and telling a bunch of lies.  And he lost the debate to epic levels.

F#$% Hunter's laptop.

[wdefromtx 3,611]

17 minutes ago, cbo said:

Have you done your research on this? How do you know "there is something obviously going on here?"

A woman in Ohio killed her neighbor's cat and ate it. She is not Haitian. She is a crazy person who is in jail. 

There is one picture making the rounds of a Haitian carrying a dead goose. No one knows what happened before or after the picture. I do know that lots of people eat geese and very few have geese as pets. 

All of this fueled a rumor that Haitians are eating pets, which originated from a neo-Nazi online group and later went viral on Facebook. Now the dumbest people on earth won't shut up about it, including Vance and Trump. 

Several city officials have debunked the claims. 

"I think it's sad that some people are using this as an opportunity to spread hate or spread fear," said Jason Via, deputy director of public safety and operations. "We get these reports 'the Haitians are killing ducks in a lot of our parks' or 'the Haitians are eating vegetables right out of the aisle at the grocery store.' And we haven't really seen any of that. It's really frustrating. As a community, it's not helpful as we try to move forward."

It is completely irresponsible for Trump to make these claims on national TV and for Vance to spread them all over Twitter. It is dangerous and racist. They probably know it is not true but they also know people like you will say "there is obviously something going on here." At that point it's already mission accomplished.

 

Did you even read what I wrote? I will take the word of a respective colleague over the media. One that is actually an anti Trump republican who voted Biden. 

He said he has seen the hunting in parks firsthand and the tents and the rummaging through people's trash. He went to see it for himself. May not be as bad as some claim but it is happening, and he said its these immigrants just trying to survive at this point. 

[wdefromtx 3,611]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

But it doesn't deserve benefit of the doubt.  And a ******* PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE should be the last one running with some rumor like that on a national stage.  Until you have something solid in terms of proof, don't make the claim.  Period.

We all understood this 17 minutes ago but now we just run with nutjob nonsense like this because "something is happening."

And you are assuming every voter thinks exactly the same way you do. 

You can argue he should have not said it all you want, doesn't matter he said it. People are free to come to there own conclusions and if what he said was crazy or not. Some people will remember other times he said crazy stuff and was right and shrug it off. Some people will think he absolutely should not have said it. 

You assume every person is thinking like you, I am saying they don't. Not sure what is hard to follow with that. 

[TitanTiger 21,249]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

And you are assuming every voter thinks exactly the same way you do. 

If they don't think the way I do on this, they're part of the problem.  It's irresponsible and wrong.

 

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

You can argue he should have not said it all you want, doesn't matter he said it. People are free to come to there own conclusions and if what he said was crazy or not. Some people will remember other times he said crazy stuff and was right and shrug it off. Some people will think he absolutely should not have said it. 

You assume every person is thinking like you, I am saying they don't. Not sure what is hard to follow with that. 

Candidates that pull dumb s*** like this should be drummed out at the primary level.  We need functioning adults, not your grandma forwarding hoax emails to the world and treating it as fact.

[wdefromtx 3,611]

43 minutes ago, Didba said:

I bet those people “who voted for Biden” you are referring to never voted Democrat before 2020. I anticipate they would characterize themselves as independents. 

Younger men are not nearly as polarized by any issue today as young women are by reproductive rights.

Young men aren’t holding marches/protests with thousands in attendance on any issue. Young women are. 

No, long time democrats voted for Clinton and Ann Richards back in the day. 

[economystupid 60]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

Candidates that pull dumb s*** like this should be drummed out at the primary level.  We need functioning adults, not your grandma forwarding hoax emails to the world and treating it as fact.

Well said

[cbo 8,795]

14 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Did you even read what I wrote? I will take the word of a respective colleague over the media. One that is actually an anti Trump republican who voted Biden. 

He said he has seen the hunting in parks firsthand and the tents and the rummaging through people's trash. He went to see it for himself. May not be as bad as some claim but it is happening, and he said its these immigrants just trying to survive at this point. 

So no one is eating pets, like I said. Some immigrants are behaving like homeless people in every other city. 

Yet when Trump claimed immigrants were eating dogs and cats and the moderators corrected him, your takeaway was " the moderators tried like hell to make him look stupid."

[wdefromtx 3,611]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

If they don't think the way I do on this, they're part of the problem.  It's irresponsible and wrong.

 

Candidates that pull dumb s*** like this should be drummed out at the primary level.  We need functioning adults, not your grandma forwarding hoax emails to the world and treating it as fact.

Well, they aren't drummed out and history is the greatest predictor of future results. 

Funny how so many get upset when I say I think this debate did nothing to really move the needle and I predict he is going to win. 

Logic left in 2016.

[Leftfield 3,380]

4 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

So if understand maga think

You sound like Trump last night.

[TitanTiger 21,249]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

Well, they aren't drummed out and history is the greatest predictor of future results. 

Funny how so many get upset when I say I think this debate did nothing to really move the needle and I predict he is going to win. 

Logic left in 2016.

Let's back up for a second because you're kinda changing your argument.  cbo, I and others are responding to this:

Got to talk about the cat in the room...........the Haitians eating cats......I agree that on the surface it looks nuts and the moderators tried like hell to make him look stupid. But, has anyone done their research on this? There is something obviously going on there. Images of people getting ducks out of the parks for food or whatever. I talked to a colleague who lives up that way this morning and he said, yes there seems to be this stuff happening. He has not seen it personally with dogs and cats, but the going through trash and hunting for food in the public parks is a real thing. In his opinion the immigrants were just dumped there and left to survive, and local officials are doing what they can to not draw attention to it.  I think this is another case of the true situation will come to light. 

The objections here aren't whether a lot of idiots exist that will give Trump a pass on saying this kind of nonsense.  It's you giving the story credence in the first place.

[auburnatl1 6,182]

So have I got the maga narrative right: dems are lonely cat people who purposely let in illegal immigrants so they can turn around and eat their cats?

[Leftfield 3,380]

Just now, auburnatl1 said:

So have I got the maga narrative right: dems are lonely cat people who purposely let in illegal immigrants so they can turn around and eat their cats?

MAGAs always say liberals are miserable and hate their lives. This is proof they want to keep making themselves miserable.

[wdefromtx 3,611]

Just now, cbo said:

So no one is eating pets, like I said. Some immigrants are behaving like homeless people in every other city. 

Yet when Trump claimed immigrants were eating dogs and cats and the moderators corrected him, your takeaway was " the moderators tried like hell to make him look stupid."

I never said the dogs and cats was true. Trump did mention other animals as well, they tried to make him look crazy for mentioning anything about it all. Take the dogs and cats away and it is still a problem f we have immigrants hunting for animals in city parks and rummaging through trash. Which was ultimately the point. 

This is not going to stick to him as much as you want it to.