Debate thread (Sept. 10)

[wdefromtx 3,611]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Nothing "sticks" to him, which is why this is still a tight race.  His supporters don't care how crazy he is.

Supporters and undecided that will have to make a decision if they think Harris will make things worse or not. 

People tend to vote based on how their financial situation is at voting time. Money trumps (no pun intended) crazy. She's in a worse position the rest of the time because all he as to do is push the thought that she is what caused the costs of living and immigration to go crazy. Immigration is valid and her and Biden's own fault. The economy she is just in a no-win situation. She did not cause inflation (unless you believe the IRA actually caused it, but it has been shown it really had nothing to do with inflation at all one way or another) but she admitted by avoiding answering that we are worse off now, she can't say we aren't worse off because that is a lie, she can't separate herself from Biden because blaming him is an indictment of her.

All he has to point to is how we are now versus 4 years ago and what all has gone on and associate her with all that people are upset with and he wins. She has abortion issue on her side to blame him for. 

[homersapien 12,245]

15 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

She was dramatic I suppose. Haven’t heard any women mentioning anything about her being “strong and powerful”. In the real world I never hear females insist they don’t have control over their bodies.

"Real world"?  You mean the world within your household or your bible study group?

[TexasTiger 14,310]

For those needing a summary 

 

[Didba 5,510]

51 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Hide yo dogs.  Hide yo cats.  Haitians are comin for em.

Yellow font saved me 

[SaltyTiger 8,579]

19 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Good grief Salty. 

Harris walked over to Trump - who is a head taller - and shook his hand.  She came across as confident, knowledgeable, assertive and a persuasive speaker.  It reflected her experience as a prosecutor and a district attorney.  In other words - especially given the context of our male dominated politics and facing a known misogynist - she came across as a "strong" woman.

That you are apparently blind to this is your problem.  And the idea you wouldn't "think less of anyone" for seeing it, is a rather bizarre thing to say.

Trump is idiot. Anyone should be able to “walk over him”. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,883]

Just now, SaltyTiger said:

Trump is idiot. Anyone should be able to “walk over him”. 

And yet the entire GOP field got crushed by him in the primaries. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,883]

What MAGAs think happens when a Haitian in America goes to get lunch: 

 

[homersapien 12,245]

40 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Supporters and undecided that will have to make a decision if they think Harris will make things worse or not. 

People tend to vote based on how their financial situation is at voting time. Money trumps (no pun intended) crazy. She's in a worse position the rest of the time because all he as to do is push the thought that she is what caused the costs of living and immigration to go crazy. Immigration is valid and her and Biden's own fault. The economy she is just in a no-win situation. She did not cause inflation (unless you believe the IRA actually caused it, but it has been shown it really had nothing to do with inflation at all one way or another) but she admitted by avoiding answering that we are worse off now, she can't say we aren't worse off because that is a lie, she can't separate herself from Biden because blaming him is an indictment of her.

All he has to point to is how we are now versus 4 years ago and what all has gone on and associate her with all that people are upset with and he wins. She has abortion issue on her side to blame him for. 

She cannot afford to tell the "truth" about the economy, which is the (global) inflation was caused by supply side issues brought on by the pandemic.  A pandemic which Trump largely mishandled.  Those factors started to manifest themselves just as Biden/Harris were taking office.  Bad timing for them.  Good timing (politically) for Trump.

Likewise, the "great" economy under Trump was an extension of the same economy that occurred under Obama.  Trump just added more (unneeded) stimulus with a tax cut that juiced an already booming economy at the cost of adding to the debt.

Sadly, the American people simply cannot handle the truth.  All they can do is look at the economic situation and hold the president at the time directly responsible.  There is no context or nuance allowed. To many - if not most - Americans, explaining the reality just comes across as excuse making.

As for immigration, both sides - including the legislatures - have shared responsibility.  Harris pledged to revive the bipartisan bill that Trump "vetoed" for personal, political reasons.  That may not completely solve the problem but it's likely a step forward.  All Trump has proposed is mass deportation - which will be socially and economically disruptive at the very least.  Meanwhile, he continues to push fear and loathing, which is all he's got.

 

Edited September 11 by homersapien

[homersapien 12,245]

17 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Trump is idiot. Anyone should be able to “walk over him”. 

That's not what I said, so why the quote marks?

Edited September 11 by homersapien

[Didba 5,510]

42 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

She was dramatic I suppose. Haven’t heard any women mentioning anything about her being “strong and powerful”. In the real world I never hear females insist they don’t have control over their bodies.

Hence why anecdotal evidence is a poor barometer. 

[wdefromtx 3,611]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

She cannot afford to tell the "truth" about the economy, which is the (global) inflation was caused by supply side issues brought on by the pandemic.  A pandemic which Trump largely mishandled.  Those factors started to manifest themselves just as Biden/Harris were taking office.  Bad timing for them.  Good timing (politically) for Trump.

Likewise, the "great" economy under Trump was an extension of the same economy that occurred under Obama.  Trump just added more (unneeded) stimulus with a tax cut that juiced an already booming economy at the cost of adding to the debt.

Sadly, the American people simply cannot handle the truth.  All they can do is look at the economic situation and hold the president at the time directly responsible.  There is no context or nuance allowed. To many - if not most - Americans explaining the reality just comes across as excuse making.

As for immigration, both sides - including the legislatures - have shared responsibility.  Harris pledged to revive the bipartisan bill that Trump "vetoed" for personal, political reasons.  That may not completely solve the problem but it's likely a step forward.  All Trump has proposed is mass deportation - which will be socially and economically disruptive at the very least.  Meanwhile, he continues to push fear and loathing, which is all he's got.

 

Everything you state is why I say Trump wins. 

[Didba 5,510]

33 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Supporters and undecided that will have to make a decision if they think Harris will make things worse or not. 

People tend to vote based on how their financial situation is at voting time. Money trumps (no pun intended) crazy. She's in a worse position the rest of the time because all he as to do is push the thought that she is what caused the costs of living and immigration to go crazy. Immigration is valid and her and Biden's own fault. The economy she is just in a no-win situation. She did not cause inflation (unless you believe the IRA actually caused it, but it has been shown it really had nothing to do with inflation at all one way or another) but she admitted by avoiding answering that we are worse off now, she can't say we aren't worse off because that is a lie, she can't separate herself from Biden because blaming him is an indictment of her.

All he has to point to is how we are now versus 4 years ago and what all has gone on and associate her with all that people are upset with and he wins. She has abortion issue on her side to blame him for. 

All she has to do is point to the pandemic and the war in Ukraine causing massive supply/chain issues to defend on the economy. As well as corporate greed. Price gouging on groceries rampant right now. 

Edited September 11 by Didba

[Didba 5,510]

11 minutes ago, homersapien said:

She cannot afford to tell the "truth" about the economy, which is the (global) inflation was caused by supply side issues brought on by the pandemic.  A pandemic which Trump largely mishandled.  Those factors started to manifest themselves just as Biden/Harris were taking office.  Bad timing for them.  Good timing (politically) for Trump.

Likewise, the "great" economy under Trump was an extension of the same economy that occurred under Obama.  Trump just added more (unneeded) stimulus with a tax cut that juiced an already booming economy at the cost of adding to the debt.

Sadly, the American people simply cannot handle the truth.  All they can do is look at the economic situation and hold the president at the time directly responsible.  There is no context or nuance allowed. To many - if not most - Americans explaining the reality just comes across as excuse making.

As for immigration, both sides - including the legislatures - have shared responsibility.  Harris pledged to revive the bipartisan bill that Trump "vetoed" for personal, political reasons.  That may not completely solve the problem but it's likely a step forward.  All Trump has proposed is mass deportation - which will be socially and economically disruptive at the very least.  Meanwhile, he continues to push fear and loathing, which is all he's got.

 

A pandemic and the war in Ukraine. Also, corporate greed. 

[homersapien 12,245]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

What MAGAs think happens when a Haitian in America goes to get lunch: 

 

Reminds me of a joke where two newly arrived immigrants saw a booth selling hot dogs.  They both were taken aback by the idea of Americans eating dogs, but wanting to fit in, they thought they'd try it so each ordered one. 

The first immigrant opened his bun, looks down and then slammed the bun closed and asked the other - "What part did you get?"

Edited September 11 by homersapien

[Didba 5,510]

12 minutes ago, homersapien said:

She cannot afford to tell the "truth" about the economy, which is the (global) inflation was caused by supply side issues brought on by the pandemic.  A pandemic which Trump largely mishandled.  Those factors started to manifest themselves just as Biden/Harris were taking office.  Bad timing for them.  Good timing (politically) for Trump.

Likewise, the "great" economy under Trump was an extension of the same economy that occurred under Obama.  Trump just added more (unneeded) stimulus with a tax cut that juiced an already booming economy at the cost of adding to the debt.

Sadly, the American people simply cannot handle the truth.  All they can do is look at the economic situation and hold the president at the time directly responsible.  There is no context or nuance allowed. To many - if not most - Americans explaining the reality just comes across as excuse making.

As for immigration, both sides - including the legislatures - have shared responsibility.  Harris pledged to revive the bipartisan bill that Trump "vetoed" for personal, political reasons.  That may not completely solve the problem but it's likely a step forward.  All Trump has proposed is mass deportation - which will be socially and economically disruptive at the very least.  Meanwhile, he continues to push fear and loathing, which is all he's got.

 

Frankly, could you imagine how badly a mass deportation of essential labor would damage the economy?

[Leftfield 3,380]

28 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

His quote at Charlottesville, has been debunked yet they continuously promote that. 

Well, if you want to ignore the fact that the protests were actually organized by Neo-Nazis and white supremacists, I guess you could say it was debunked. Is it possible people attended not realizing who it was organized by? Sure. Is it a good idea to say very fine people were part of a protest organized by white supremacists? I'll leave that for you to decide.

 

36 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

When they tried to call him a white supremacist for going to Howell, Michigan when Harris and Biden have also visited that city. 

Had to look this one up.

On the face of it your argument makes sense, but a quick scan of a couple of articles made me understand. Biden visited in 2021 to promote the "Build Back Better" plan. Trump had what he called a "press conference" (there's apparently a controversy about this, as it was pretty clearly a campaign event according to some, which violates state election law - how shocking that Trump would try to get away with something) about crime and safety. You might see how a man who has been unable to shake accusations of racism and bigotry his entire adult life might be seen as, at best, naive to hold an event about crime and safety in a city with a historically racist past? Or, you might not.

48 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Trying to claim that Harris only lied once last night. Regardless of how many he told, they tried to make her look better. 

Where are you seeing this?

 

49 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Agree disagree with Trump, most people are realizing just how bad the media has gotten. Which will play into how much people hold things against him. 

Or maybe you just think the media has declined further than it has because Trump's gaslighting is actually working? This is why he's so insidious - he throws out so much garbage and outrageous statements that people become numb to it, so any time there's even a hint that something might not be true it's used as a wedge to show how horrible the media is. Your response demonstrates this - you gave three examples out of the literal thousands of absurd remarks Trump has made.

"No, it's not Trump that's bad, it's the media!"

 

[homersapien 12,245]

16 minutes ago, Didba said:

All she has to do is point to the pandemic and the war in Ukraine causing massive supply/chain issues to defend on the economy. 

It wouldn't help.  IMO, she's better off just ignoring the question.

Edited September 11 by homersapien

[homersapien 12,245]

19 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Everything you state is why I say Trump wins. 

You may be right.  It's certainly why he apparently has the support he has.

(And a small, vindictive part of me would like to see that, because we as a country would deserve the results.)

But I think/hope that abortion/women/young voters will carry the day for Harris.

Edited September 11 by homersapien

[Didba 5,510]

This is a democratic/progressive podcast led by former White House staffers, I enjoy how they break things down from an insider perspective:

 

[Didba 5,510]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You may be right.  It's certainly why he apparently has the support he has.

(And a small, vindictive part of me would like to see that, because we as a country would deserve the results.)

But I think/hope abortion/women/young voters will carry the day for Harris.

To be fair, there are also a whole lot of blue dog democrats that voted for Democrat for the first time in their lives in 2020 or will being voting democrat for the first time in their lives come November.

[wdefromtx 3,611]

3 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Well, if you want to ignore the fact that the protests were actually organized by Neo-Nazis and white supremacists, I guess you could say it was debunked. Is it possible people attended not realizing who it was organized by? Sure. Is it a good idea to say very fine people were part of a protest organized by white supremacists? I'll leave that for you to decide.

 

Had to look this one up.

On the face of it your argument makes sense, but a quick scan of a couple of articles made me understand. Biden visited in 2021 to promote the "Build Back Better" plan. Trump had what he called a "press conference" (there's apparently a controversy about this, as it was pretty clearly a campaign event according to some, which violates state election law - how shocking that Trump would try to get away with something) about crime and safety. You might see how a man who has been unable to shake accusations of racism and bigotry his entire adult life might be seen as, at best, naive to hold an event about crime and safety in a city with a historically racist past? Or, you might not.

Where are you seeing this?

 

Or maybe you just think the media has declined further than it has because Trump's gaslighting is actually working? This is why he's so insidious - he throws out so much garbage and outrageous statements that people become numb to it, so any time there's even a hint that something might not be true it's used as a wedge to show how horrible the media is. Your response demonstrates this - you gave three examples out of the literal thousands of absurd remarks Trump has made.

"No, it's not Trump that's bad, it's the media!"

 

Regarding Howell, there was another couple towns in other states where Harris visited earlier this year that when he visited recently it had to have been because of racism. The whole election campaign violation is another issue. 

Biden has a historically racist past and visits some of the same cities, but I guess you have to talk about crime or be Trump to be racists. 

Regarding the lies it was on CNN yesterday after the debate.

Again, why do they make up stuff when he already gives them enough low hanging fruit? 

[wdefromtx 3,611]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You may be right.  It's certainly why he apparently has the support he has.

(And a small, vindictive part of me would like to see that, because we as a country would deserve the results.)

But I think/hope abortion/women/young voters will carry the day for Harris.

Half the country feels the same way but in the opposite direction. 

[homersapien 12,245]

4 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Half the country feels the same way but in the opposite direction. 

If I understand what you are saying, I disagree. 

Polls and referendum elections show  a majority of voters support Harris on abortion.  This is why it's a losing issue for Trump.

If you are referring to how a Harris election would affect the country, there's no rational argument to support that.  Foreign policy is the most revealing category to consider.

Edited September 11 by homersapien

[wdefromtx 3,611]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

If I understand what you are saying, I disagree. 

Polls and referendum elections show  a majority of voters support Harris on abortion.  This is why it's a losing issue for Trump.

If you are referring to how a Harris election would affect the country, there's no rational argument to support that.  Foreign policy is the most revealing category to consider.

This is exactly what I am referring to. I am willing to say many will feel the same way you do about Trump winning the election. 

[homersapien 12,245]

8 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Regarding Howell, there was another couple towns in other states where Harris visited earlier this year that when he visited recently it had to have been because of racism. The whole election campaign violation is another issue. 

Biden has a historically racist past and visits some of the same cities, but I guess you have to talk about crime or be Trump to be racists. 

Regarding the lies it was on CNN yesterday after the debate.

Again, why do they make up stuff when he already gives them enough low hanging fruit? 

BS on Biden's racist past.  Are you talking about the crime bill?  I wouldn't call that racist.

Are you aware of the charges against Trump - and particularly his father - regarding discrimination?  Then there's the "Central Park five". Then there's the dinners with white nationalists; "****hole countries", "black jobs" being stolen, and now, Haitians eating pets.