Blount County AL Youth Minister Arrested on Multiple Rape and Child Abuse Charges

[Aufan59 168]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

So let’s take Texas lack of an exemption as an example. Say their government decides abortion is a form of child abuse, if not outright infanticide.

A woman has an abortion, for whatever reason. Could be because she had to, could be because it was entirely elective. Let’s say she’s also Catholic and confessed, in the booth, to a priest that she had aborted. In the course of their investigation the investigators decide they need the priest’s testimony.

Are you comfortable with that priest going to jail for keeping that woman’s “crime” in confidence? 

That was a very long walk down an unrelated path.  Without getting distracted by the flaws in your example, the answer is simple: If a lay-person would go to jail for not cooperating, then so should a priest.

Edited July 30 by Aufan59

[GreenTiger 1,056]

On 7/26/2024 at 2:58 PM, ArgoEagle said:

You made several good points here.

Being a deacon at my church I can tell you that if our Pastor was caught doing immoral acts towards children, there would be an immediate convening of all the deacons & he would be asked to leave our church (immediately) & not ever come back.   We would at that point let God deal with him from that point forward.

Unfortunately, I'm quite sure there have been many cases where the leaders of a particular church have chosen to sweep something like this under the rug & the children of that church, their parents, and the church as a whole have paid the price for it.

And unfortunately people equate all churches with the action of 1 bad apple that gets exposed.

I can’t believe nowhere in your example do you make it a point to REPORT the crime to your local authorities. “Ask him to leave”??? “Let God deal it”??? Wow!!! And you hold some sort of leadership role???? This is the exact reason why I don’t take my family to church. 
 

The core of much of the beliefs and practices of institutional Christianity is to protect the image and mission (ie income streams) of the Church more than its members. 
 

Edit. Further thought. I do understand why this would be the practice within your church because it is the practice of many and it’s why we see so many examples of sexual abuse and sexual assault in faith circles. 

Edited August 1 by GreenTiger

[ArgoEagle 2,044]

8 minutes ago, GreenTiger said:

I can’t believe nowhere in your example do you make it a point to REPORT the crime to your local authorities. “Ask him to leave”??? “Let God deal it”??? Wow!!! And you hold some sort of leadership role???? This is the exact reason why I don’t take my family to church. 
 

The core of much of the beliefs and practices of institutional Christianity is to protect the image and mission (ie income streams) of the Church more than its members. 

Ah yes. The old I don't go to church because of the hypocrites in the church.

Every time you use this excuse not to go to God's House, you are breaking the commandment given in Hebrews 10:25.

I stated before that if we had proof of a crime, my church would be obligated to report it.  But the law of the land doesn't convict people on heresy; they convict people on evidence.  Therefore the only recourse for the church is to get rid of the source of the problem.

As far as your statement about income streams; that doesn't apply to my church.  We believe people give as they are blessed by God.  We don't have raffles, car washes, etc. that some churches do, and our pastor (rarely) preaches on tithing. We have an open monthly business meeting in which every cent taken in from our members is accounted for.    That statement you made is very ignorant & judgemental.

Peace be with you, though.

[GreenTiger 1,056]

44 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

Ah yes. The old I don't go to church because of the hypocrites in the church.

Every time you use this excuse not to go to God's House, you are breaking the commandment given in Hebrews 10:25.

I stated before that if we had proof of a crime, my church would be obligated to report it.  But the law of the land doesn't convict people on heresy; they convict people on evidence.  Therefore the only recourse for the church is to get rid of the source of the problem.

As far as your statement about income streams; that doesn't apply to my church.  We believe people give as they are blessed by God.  We don't have raffles, car washes, etc. that some churches do, and our pastor (rarely) preaches on tithing. We have an open monthly business meeting in which every cent taken in from our members is accounted for.    That statement you made is very ignorant & judgemental.

Peace be with you, though.

Yes it’s my duty to judge safe and unsafe spaces for my family to be exposed to. It’s your duty to report concerns to authorities. Not to find evidence. Groups like yours use the “evidence” as excuse not to report concerns because the fear of what might be uncovered. As a faculty member of SBC University and as a missionary abroad I saw this first hand in both of my tenures.
 

As to you  trying to fabricate a commandment from Hebrews. Sadly this is the doubling down on religious dogma that is so often used to justify and protect the Us vs Them doctrines taught in Christian apologetics. Emphasizing the teachings of Peter and Paul and minimizing those of Jesus. 
 

And thank you!! Im at even more peace steering clear of religious fundamentalism given the response you chose to offer. The lengths religious individuals will go to at best preserve their religious dogmatic exceptionalism or at worst avoid legal action against their religious institutions proves that they have completely missed the statement “they will know us by their love for one another” 

[ArgoEagle 2,044]

1 hour ago, GreenTiger said:

Yes it’s my duty to judge safe and unsafe spaces for my family to be exposed to. It’s your duty to report concerns to authorities. Not to find evidence. Groups like yours use the “evidence” as excuse not to report concerns because the fear of what might be uncovered. As a faculty member of SBC University and as a missionary abroad I saw this first hand in both of my tenures.
 

As to you  trying to fabricate a commandment from Hebrews. Sadly this is the doubling down on religious dogma that is so often used to justify and protect the Us vs Them doctrines taught in Christian apologetics. Emphasizing the teachings of Peter and Paul and minimizing those of Jesus. 
 

And thank you!! Im at even more peace steering clear of religious fundamentalism given the response you chose to offer. The lengths religious individuals will go to at best preserve their religious dogmatic exceptionalism or at worst avoid legal action against their religious institutions proves that they have completely missed the statement “they will know us by their love for one another” 

In the Bible, Jesus says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” in John 14:15. This passage means that following Christ's commandments is both a test and a sign of love for him. The original language words in John's passage are not just to be understood as following a series of moral instructions. The "commands" include all of Jesus' words and teachings, which are God the Father's words.

[GreenTiger 1,056]

10 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

In the Bible, Jesus says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” in John 14:15. This passage means that following Christ's commandments is both a test and a sign of love for him. The original language words in John's passage are not just to be understood as following a series of moral instructions. The "commands" include all of Jesus' words and teachings, which are God the Father's words.

Well clearly you are much more serious about finding truth and adhering to biblical commandments than me. I’m curious what is like to have sold everything you have and give it to the poor in order to follow a man who calls himself god??? I bet that was really challenging for you. 
 

When Jesus heard this he said to him, "There is still one thing left for you: sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor, and you will have a treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

[1716AU 786]

On 7/25/2024 at 6:41 PM, I_M4_AU said:

So true:

 

 

 

They come in all forms of life.

Yeah, but no one does it better than Southern Baptists and Pentecostals

 

[homersapien 12,215]

5 hours ago, GreenTiger said:

Well clearly you are much more serious about finding truth and adhering to biblical commandments than me. I’m curious what is like to have sold everything you have and give it to the poor in order to follow a man who calls himself god??? I bet that was really challenging for you. 
 

When Jesus heard this he said to him, "There is still one thing left for you: sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor, and you will have a treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

........Not that commandment. 

There are exceptions.

Edited August 1 by homersapien

[GreenTiger 1,056]

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

........Not that commandment. 

There are exceptions.

It’s amazing who gets to choose what commandments they have to follow and which ones they get to disregard at the same time condemn others for not adhering to their rules of religiosity 

[homersapien 12,215]

Just now, GreenTiger said:

It’s amazing who gets to choose what commandments they have to follow and which ones they get to disregard at the same time condemn others for not adhering to their rules of religiosity 

Considering its provenance - all the translations done by countless unknown scribes in many languages, for literally thousands of years - I am amazed by the fact people actually believe the results represent the literal word of God.

At least the Koran has a simple provenance.

[GreenTiger 1,056]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Considering its provenance - all the translations done by countless unknown scribes in many languages, for literally thousands of years - I am amazed by the fact people actually believe the results represent the literal word of God.

At least the Koran has a simple provenance.

Ironically… actual biblical scholars agree that Hebrews was not even written by St. Paul. Subsequently placing its biblical inerrancy in serious question. 🤣 I’d say you can’t even make this stuff up but…. 

[Leftfield 3,347]

"God destroyed Sodom & Gamorrah with fire & brimstone. Wiped out every living thing including the grass for wickedness..."

....except for the man that raped a child, who was told to find employment elsewhere. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,860]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

"God destroyed Sodom & Gamorrah with fire & brimstone. Wiped out every living thing including the grass for wickedness..."

....except for the man that raped a child, who was told to find employment elsewhere. 

The one man God deemed good enough to escape destruction offered his daughters up to a rape mob, and then he and his daughters went to a cave to have a wild, drunk, sex orgy. 

And he's considered the "good" guy of the story lol. 

 

[Leftfield 3,347]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

The one man God deemed good enough to escape destruction offered his daughters up to a rape mob, and then he and his daughters went to a cave to have a wild, drunk, sex orgy. 

And he's considered the "good" guy of the story lol. 

 

Calling their daughters hot seems to be a Trump trait. Ancestor, maybe?

[GreenTiger 1,056]

@ArgoEagle what is so mind boggling with you condemning me for not going to church is that I absolutely believe I would not be welcomed in your church after you understood my beliefs 

[ArgoEagle 2,044]

2 hours ago, GreenTiger said:

@ArgoEagle what is so mind boggling with you condemning me for not going to church is that I absolutely believe I would not be welcomed in your church after you understood my beliefs 

One way to know.

[AUDub 11,814]

On 7/30/2024 at 2:31 PM, Aufan59 said:

That was a very long walk down an unrelated path.  Without getting distracted by the flaws in your example, the answer is simple: If a lay-person would go to jail for not cooperating, then so should a priest.

The lay-person shouldn’t be beholden by the law to deal with it either. 

[AURex 2,248]

On 7/25/2024 at 6:41 PM, I_M4_AU said:

So true:

 

 

 

They come in all forms of life.

For those who do not know, LibsOfTikTok and the other posts here are extremist right wing NeoNazi QAnon ilk fanatic sites. Bretheren of Alex Jones.

That said, it is true, outside the inner family/friend circle, evangelical Christian and Catholic religious leaders and family-centered sports coaches are the top predators.

Conservatives have the child abuse arena cornered. They like to try to paint Democrats as child traffickers, but it is a ploy to deflect from the reality. Wanna find predators? Look right!

I worked in support of child abuse researchers and statistics compilers nationally. There is no disputing the numbers.

 

 

 

 

[GreenTiger 1,056]

7 hours ago, AURex said:

Conservatives have the child abuse arena cornered. They like to try to paint Democrats as child traffickers, but it is a ploy to deflect from the reality

I would add sexual misconduct/abuse in general. There is a reason why these conservative groups, specifically religious ones, are the primary offenders. When shame, guilt and fear are at the center of the belief structure they avoid if not outright refuse to create accountability structures upon themselves and within their communities. 

[I_M4_AU 8,914]

9 hours ago, AURex said:

I worked in support of child abuse researchers and statistics compilers nationally. There is no disputing the numbers.

Is it not true that child predators will go where there is prey?  This would be regardless of political affiliation, right?

[GreenTiger 1,056]

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Is it not true that child predators will go where there is prey?  This would be regardless of political affiliation, right?

Absolutely. But what communities would they target??? Ones that place emphasis on safety measures or ones that keep their heads in the sand and somehow believe their religious convictions create some sort of shield against these kinds of predators 

[I_M4_AU 8,914]

13 minutes ago, GreenTiger said:

Absolutely. But what communities would they target??? Ones that place emphasis on safety measures or ones that keep their heads in the sand and somehow believe their religious convictions create some sort of shield against these kinds of predators 

That is one place they would gather, but now there is legislation being proposed to allow *Minor Attracted People* an avenue to child abuse.  You will not find that language in religious circles.  It has become more prevalent than just in the church.

[Aufan59 168]

4 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

That is one place they would gather, but now there is legislation being proposed to allow *Minor Attracted People* an avenue to child abuse.  You will not find that language in religious circles.  It has become more prevalent than just in the church.

Care to elaborate?  There are laws on the books… the ones you are too cowardly to comment on, that enable abuse.

 

But it is not just the laws protecting clergy, but laws also allow child marriage.  When bills are proposed to raise legal marriage age, guess who opposes them?  
 

 

 

 

Edited August 2 by Aufan59

[Aufan59 168]

14 hours ago, AUDub said:

The lay-person shouldn’t be beholden by the law to deal with it either. 

That wasn’t the point in question.  

[I_M4_AU 8,914]

21 minutes ago, Aufan59 said:

Care to elaborate?

SACRAMENTO —  

Discrimination against LGBTQ people in sex crime convictions will be outlawed under a new law signed by Gov. Gavin Newsom late Friday evening.

The measure, Senate Bill 145, will amend existing state law that allows judges to decide whether an adult convicted of having vaginal sexual intercourse with a minor should register as a sex offender in cases in which the minor is 14 years or older and the adult is not more than 10 years older than the minor.

Currently, adults who are convicted of having oral or anal sex with a minor under those circumstances are automatically added to the state’s sex offender registry. SB 145 will eliminate automatic sex offender registration in those cases and give judges discretion to make that decision.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-09-11/sb145-sex-crimes-law-gavin-newsom-lgbtq-rights

This is a sticky one.  It allows a judge to determine if they are to be added to the sex registry.  Very close to what you believe is happening in churches.

In Minnesota a proposed bill was struck down:

The bill would amend Minnesota's Human Rights Act, which is described by the state as "one of the strongest civil rights laws in the country." The current Human Rights Act protects against discrimination based on sexual orientation, defined as "having or being perceived as having an emotional, physical, or sexual attachment to another person without regard to the sex of that person or having or being perceived as having an orientation for such attachment, or having or being perceived as having a self-image or identity not traditionally associated with one's biological maleness or femaleness."

The law also includes this caveat: "'Sexual orientation' does not include a physical or sexual attachment to children by an adult." That language would be removed under Finke's proposal.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/transgender-minnesota-lawmaker-introduces-bill-removing-anti-pedophile-language-states-human-rights-act

These developments shows some legislatures are weakening long held stances about pedophilia.  It is just the beginning.