Another Horrible Police Shooting.

[CoffeeTiger 5,843]

 2 Cops responding to a 36 year old black woman's home on a possible burglary call. The officers determine there is no one around the house and the woman tells the officers she doesn't need anymore assistance, but the officers decide to enter the home with her and investigate further, requiring her to produce her ID. 

This woman displays some signs of possible mental illness...while she looks for her ID one of the cops notices a pot of boiling water on the stove and instructs the woman to go take it off the stove. The woman complies and picks the pot of water off the stove and turns on the sink, assumabley to cool down the pot. When she picks up the pot the officer backs away from her and she asks him why he did that. Officer responds that he doesn't want to have boiling water hit him. The woman responds to that by saying " I rebuke you in the name of Jesus". 

The officer apparently interprets those words as a threat, and immediately pulls out his service weapon and tells the woman he will shoot her in the face. The woman falls to the floor crying that she is sorry while still holding the pot...the officer then tells her to 'drop the pot of water' while he steps towards the woman on the ground and then immediately opens fire, shooting the woman multiple times. The shooting officer then tells his partner to not bother with getting a first aid kit because he shot her in the head and its not worth trying to lend any aid to her. 

The shooting officer then details to investigators that he feared for his life and that the woman was coming towards him with the pot of boiling water to try and throw it on him.  Although the shooting officer didn't have his body cam activated till after the shooting took place, his partner cop did have his own for the entire call, and the video evidence does not seem to support the cops reported version of events, and seems to show the cop advancing on the woman that that he claimed was endangering his life.  

This cop has been fired and is now being charged and held without bail. 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFun2GydGyU

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/22/us/sonya-massey-police-shooting/index.html

 

 

 

 

[AU9377 5,922]

It is pretty bad.  That outcome could have been avoided so easily.    Shoot to kill cannot be the go to in a situation like that.

[wdefromtx 3,494]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I hope there good video footage.

Have not seen it, but I have been told it is pretty damning. 

He landed in jail pretty fast. 

I am glad they released footage so fast...shame we have to say that.

Edited July 24 by wdefromtx

[homersapien 12,172]

Since the shooting, local and state officials have criticized the deputy’s actions as an unjustified use of deadly force.

A review of the Illinois State Police investigation into the shooting “does not support a finding that … Grayson was justified in his use of deadly force,” the state’s attorney for the county, John Milhiser, said in a July 17 news release.

In a court document filed by the state last week, prosecutors said a “use-of-force” expert had reviewed the body-camera footage and concluded the use of deadly force was not justified.

“(The expert) likened the scenario to an officer intentionally and unnecessarily putting himself in front of a moving vehicle and then justifying use of force because of fear of being struck,” the prosecutors wrote.

The sheriff’s office said it has fired Grayson. “It is clear that the deputy did not act as trained or in accordance with our standards,” the office said.

CNN experts offered similar analysis.

“Effective policing comes down to good judgment in highly stressful situations,” said Josh Campbell, CNN security correspondent and former federal agent. “Although being doused with scalding water could warrant the use of deadly force by an officer to stop a threat, in this video we certainly don’t see officers attempting alternative options, such as moving away and creating distance between themselves and Massey.”

“There were a number of ways to avoid this starting with better tactics from the outset,” said CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller, “but even if you forgive that and limit the observations to the last few seconds, there were still options of a calmer dialogue, more distance between the subject and them, a taser rather than a firearm.”

Grayson had worked at six different law enforcement agencies in Illinois since 2020, according to the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board.

He began working part-time at the Pawnee Police Department in August 2020, then moved to the Kincaid and Virden police departments, before taking up full-time work with the Auburn Police Department then the Logan County Sheriff’s Office and – in May 2023 – Sangamon County.

It is unclear why Grayson changed jobs so frequently and CNN has reached out to the other law enforcement agencies for more information.

The training and standards board records show his Law Enforcement Certification has since been suspended.

[homersapien 12,172]

5 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Have not seen it, but I have been told it is pretty damning. 

He landed in jail pretty fast. 

I am glad they released footage so fast...shame we have to say that.

It's in the link Coffee cited.  You need to watch it.

There was a cabinet between the shooter and the victim.  All he had to do was retreat if she was coming at him, which it didn't appear she was.

[wdefromtx 3,494]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Since the shooting, local and state officials have criticized the deputy’s actions as an unjustified use of deadly force.

A review of the Illinois State Police investigation into the shooting “does not support a finding that … Grayson was justified in his use of deadly force,” the state’s attorney for the county, John Milhiser, said in a July 17 news release.

In a court document filed by the state last week, prosecutors said a “use-of-force” expert had reviewed the body-camera footage and concluded the use of deadly force was not justified.

“(The expert) likened the scenario to an officer intentionally and unnecessarily putting himself in front of a moving vehicle and then justifying use of force because of fear of being struck,” the prosecutors wrote.

The sheriff’s office said it has fired Grayson. “It is clear that the deputy did not act as trained or in accordance with our standards,” the office said.

CNN experts offered similar analysis.

“Effective policing comes down to good judgment in highly stressful situations,” said Josh Campbell, CNN security correspondent and former federal agent. “Although being doused with scalding water could warrant the use of deadly force by an officer to stop a threat, in this video we certainly don’t see officers attempting alternative options, such as moving away and creating distance between themselves and Massey.”

“There were a number of ways to avoid this starting with better tactics from the outset,” said CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller, “but even if you forgive that and limit the observations to the last few seconds, there were still options of a calmer dialogue, more distance between the subject and them, a taser rather than a firearm.”

Grayson had worked at six different law enforcement agencies in Illinois since 2020, according to the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board.

He began working part-time at the Pawnee Police Department in August 2020, then moved to the Kincaid and Virden police departments, before taking up full-time work with the Auburn Police Department then the Logan County Sheriff’s Office and – in May 2023 – Sangamon County.

It is unclear why Grayson changed jobs so frequently and CNN has reached out to the other law enforcement agencies for more information.

The training and standards board records show his Law Enforcement Certification has since been suspended.

He switched jobs because he’s a POS and nobody wanted him and departments seem not to release why said POS left letting move on to the next unsuspecting place. 

[homersapien 12,172]

3 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

He switched jobs because he’s a POS and nobody wanted him and departments seem not to release why said POS left letting move on to the next unsuspecting place. 

My understanding is that's common practice.

 

[wdefromtx 3,494]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

It's in the link Coffee cited.  You need to watch it.

There was a cabinet between the shooter and the victim.  All he had to do was retreat if she was coming at him, which it didn't appear she was.

I will, I just don’t have my nitro with me (geez I sound old) and I have a feeling this is really going to get to me based on what I heard so far. 

[wdefromtx 3,494]

Just now, homersapien said:

My understanding is that's common practice.

 

Yep, that’s what I’ve always been told and looks like it is what happened here. 

[homersapien 12,172]

"A petition calling for an investigation into why Sangamon County hired Grayson was circulated at a march and barbecue in Springfield on Monday night, CNN affiliate WICS reported."

[autigeremt 7,131]

That right there deserves a life sentence. Make an example of him. Pathetic policing. 

[DAG 34,553]

So when people yell defund the police, the objective is to allocate funding for the appropriate resources , not to take money out of the pockets of law enforcement. Situations like this would be nice to have empathy training and potential mental health clinician readily available for both parties. 

[AUFAN78 4,130]

7 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 2 Cops responding to a 36 year old black woman's home on a possible burglary call. The officers determine there is no one around the house and the woman tells the officers she doesn't need anymore assistance, but the officers decide to enter the home with her and investigate further, requiring her to produce her ID. 

This woman displays some signs of possible mental illness...while she looks for her ID one of the cops notices a pot of boiling water on the stove and instructs the woman to go take it off the stove. The woman complies and picks the pot of water off the stove and turns on the sink, assumabley to cool down the pot. When she picks up the pot the officer backs away from her and she asks him why he did that. Officer responds that he doesn't want to have boiling water hit him. The woman responds to that by saying " I rebuke you in the name of Jesus". 

The officer apparently interprets those words as a threat, and immediately pulls out his service weapon and tells the woman he will shoot her in the face. The woman falls to the floor crying that she is sorry while still holding the pot...the officer then tells her to 'drop the pot of water' while he steps towards the woman on the ground and then immediately opens fire, shooting the woman multiple times. The shooting officer then tells his partner to not bother with getting a first aid kit because he shot her in the head and its not worth trying to lend any aid to her. 

The shooting officer then details to investigators that he feared for his life and that the woman was coming towards him with the pot of boiling water to try and throw it on him.  Although the shooting officer didn't have his body cam activated till after the shooting took place, his partner cop did have his own for the entire call, and the video evidence does not seem to support the cops reported version of events, and seems to show the cop advancing on the woman that that he claimed was endangering his life.  

This cop has been fired and is now being charged and held without bail. 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFun2GydGyU

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/22/us/sonya-massey-police-shooting/index.html

 

 

 

 

Lock him up!

[Cardin Drake 2,074]

I ran across this video yesterday.  It's truly hard to watch.  Perfect example of why we need body cams on police.   Inexcusable. The worst I've seen and there are some bad shootings out there.  I have no idea what that cop was thinking.  And he likely would have gotten away with it without the video evidence.  That cop's going to jail for a long time. 

 

Edited July 25 by Cardin Drake

[WillMunny 1,524]

I'm sorry to say, this is not surprising to me.  Shocking, yes.  Surprising, no.

This woman clearly exhibited symptoms of a mental health issue, which the officer should have recognized.  Instead, he murdered her.

There are a lot of good cops out there.  But unfortunately, with the abundance of video taping in the modern world, we see there are a lot of bad cops as well.  Without the other officer's body cam video, these cops would have lied their way out of this.

No telling how many times this type of thing has happened over and over in the past.

Edited July 25 by WillMunny

[SLAG-91 1,604]

No question this was a terrible shoot, and then doubled down on stupid after that. Put him in gen pop...that meathead will be reeeeal popular.

[WillMunny 1,524]

Go to Youtube, search for "Corrupt Cops", and you can watch authentic videos for weeks showing cops abusing their power, making false arrests, beating people for no reason, etc.

It was always like this.  We just didn't know it until cell phone and body cam video became widespread.

[sandyclawedtiger 207]

6 hours ago, WillMunny said:

Go to Youtube, search for "Corrupt Cops", and you can watch authentic videos for weeks showing cops abusing their power, making false arrests, beating people for no reason, etc.

It was always like this.  We just didn't know it until cell phone and body cam video became widespread.

My main question. When are the good officers going to make a stand?

[DAG 34,553]

7 minutes ago, sandyclawedtiger said:

My main question. When are the good officers going to make a stand?

They do all the time (raised by an army vet and Montgomery police department corporal). The problem is that is not news worthy. The few bad apples are however. 

[autigeremt 7,131]

12 minutes ago, DAG said:

They do all the time (raised by an army vet and Montgomery police department corporal). The problem is that is not news worthy. The few bad apples are however. 

True. Bad news is golden for the press. We need to get both good and the unfortunate bad. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,843]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

They do all the time (raised by an army vet and Montgomery police department corporal). The problem is that is not news worthy. The few bad apples are however. 

I know there are a lot of great, dedicated police officers around the country, but I think police culture in general makes it hard for the good cops have as much influence on bad ones as they may wish they could/should. They see it as a "us against the world" type of situation and even bad cops are part of that "us" group. 

Especially for your typical beat/street cop there is extraordinary pressure to always....ALWAYS have the back of your fellow officers in all situations....ALL situations. Like in many groups, you don't want to be known as the "snitch" or the guy gets your comrades into hot water with leadership or internal affairs.. And if the leadership of your particular department doesn't care about their employees following the rules then a good cop calling out bad ones could potentially end that good cops career. 

 

Edited July 25 by CoffeeTiger

[autigeremt 7,131]

3 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I know there are a lot of great, dedicated police officers around the country, but I think police culture in general makes it hard for the good cops have as much influence on bad ones as they may wish they could/should. They see it as a "us against the world" type of situation and even bad cops are part of that "us" group. 

Especially for your typical beat/street cop there is extraordinary pressure to always....ALWAYS have the back of your fellow officers in all situations....ALL situations. Like in many groups, you don't want to be known as the guy who's known to be a  "snitch" or gets your comrades into hot water with leadership or internal affairs.. And if the leadership of your particular department doesn't care about their employees following the rules then a good cop calling out bad ones could potentially end that good cops career. 

 

Police unions can also be an issue in areas where they exist. 

[DAG 34,553]

25 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I know there are a lot of great, dedicated police officers around the country, but I think police culture in general makes it hard for the good cops have as much influence on bad ones as they may wish they could/should. They see it as a "us against the world" type of situation and even bad cops are part of that "us" group. 

Especially for your typical beat/street cop there is extraordinary pressure to always....ALWAYS have the back of your fellow officers in all situations....ALL situations. Like in many groups, you don't want to be known as the "snitch" or the guy gets your comrades into hot water with leadership or internal affairs.. And if the leadership of your particular department doesn't care about their employees following the rules then a good cop calling out bad ones could potentially end that good cops career. 

 

The biggest issue, like most occupations , is the leadership. It’s hard to truly make a difference if leaders don’t have buy in and choose to cut corners as well. I have no doubt , there were probably several cops who verbalized or raised concern about this particular individual . However, it probably got minimized and rationalized for shortages, etc. That is certainly my only opinion and presumptive assumptions but from discussion with cops , it seems as if a good bit of them look down on the piss poor cops and hate the reputation given to them. Also , I completely believe others are complicit in being silenced based on a “code.” There is definitely more we can do to be better at vetting , screening for appropriate police officers as it is a stressful, at times dangerous job but also fulfilling depending on the person. We also need to be better at bringing awareness to the issue, starting with the police force own individuals. 

[wdefromtx 3,494]

Not sure if any of y’all follow “Bruce Rivers Criminal Lawyer Reacts” he’s one of my favorite YouTubers. 
 

I like him because he’s real centered politically…and doesn’t get political in his videos. 
 

He did a video of this incident. 
 

 

Edited July 25 by wdefromtx

[DAG 34,553]

18 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Not sure if any of y’all follow “Bruce Rivers Criminal Lawyer Reacts” he’s one of my favorite YouTubers. 
 

I like him because he’s real centered politically…and doesn’t get political in his videos. 
 

He did a video of this incident. 
 

 

I follow him as well. Like to hear his evaluation on current legal situations.