Schiff Warns of Big Democratic Losses With Biden Atop Ticket

[wdefromtx 3,573]

2 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Again, they were trying to avoid overwhelming the health care system. 

To be clear, I hate things like seat belt laws for adults. My life, my choice - affects no one else. It’s when individual rights bump into societal safety (vaxing, guns,ect)where all hell breaks loose on how to balance.  ie In my lifetime there were debates about speed limits in some states and dui’s - same narratives.

There aren’t usually good answers - just the least crappy ones.

There is a huge difference though. 

We know that not wearing your seat belt is way more dangerous in an accident. 

We know about driving impaired. 

We also know that well established vaccines work. Key point being well established, and those vaccines just did not appear in months. They took years and many cases decades to come out with a version that was safe and effective. A lot of the people I know that did not get it had been vaccinated for other things. 

Individual rights should not be trumped based on "we hope this works."  Prove it works and is safe first. Don't get upset if people pass on it because they don't want to be guinea pigs. Which is the problem, one side could not understand that at the time and some still don't. So when people hear Biden or someone else say you won't get covid you have backlash because we know it is not true and see him as just another person trying to tell them what to do. 

 

[wdefromtx 3,573]

9 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

More denial.

I never denied that Trump misspoke when trying to describe a way to treat the virus with something that works in the same way a bleach or disinfectant does. Based on your logic he get's a mulligan for clarifying right?

What's your excuse? 

[auburnatl1 6,108]

9 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

There is a huge difference though. 

We know that not wearing your seat belt is way more dangerous in an accident. 

We know about driving impaired. 

We also know that well established vaccines work. Key point being well established, and those vaccines just did not appear in months. They took years and many cases decades to come out with a version that was safe and effective. A lot of the people I know that did not get it had been vaccinated for other things. 

Individual rights should not be trumped based on "we hope this works."  Prove it works and is safe first. Don't get upset if people pass on it because they don't want to be guinea pigs. Which is the problem, one side could not understand that at the time and some still don't. So when people hear Biden or someone else say you won't get covid you have backlash because we know it is not true and see him as just another person trying to tell them what to do. 

 

Seat belts affect no one but the individual. Covid affects others.  The vaccine (like most anti virals) cut infections down by about half - which statistically compounds the benefits throughout a group/society.   I get your point (anyone would) and no one likes mandates  - but it’s ultimately inarguable math.

if you want to keep debating this that’s up to you but it’s probably not a good use of your time. 

https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html#:~:text=offered significant protection.-,People who received the updated COVID-19 vaccine were 54,1 variant.

[TexasTiger 14,226]

15 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I never denied that Trump misspoke when trying to describe a way to treat the virus with something that works in the same way a bleach or disinfectant does. Based on your logic he get's a mulligan for clarifying right?

What's your excuse? 

If you want to equate those wildly different statements, well— you’re kinda special.

[wdefromtx 3,573]

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

Seat belts affect no one but the individual. Covid affects others.  The vaccine (like most anti virals) cut infections down by about half - which statistically compounds the benefits throughout a group/society.   I get your point (anyone would) and no one likes mandates  - but it’s ultimately inarguable math.

if you want to keep debating this that’s up to you but it’s probably not a good use of your time. 

https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html#:~:text=offered significant protection.-,People who received the updated COVID-19 vaccine were 54,1 variant.

That is why I said "at that time." 

You must have been one of the ones losing your mind back then if someone had reservations about the vaccine. 

You keep trying to debate the effectiveness of the vaccine when that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about how people acted when (before we knew is they were going to work.) 

It does not matter if they ended up working. When they first came out people had no right to try to mandate the vaccine. Period. 

Turns out they had no right even after time. 

Do you still get upset when someone does not want to get the covid vaccine today?

[wdefromtx 3,573]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

If you want to equate those wildly different statements, well— you’re kinda special.

True, one was a misspeak and the other an outright attempt to deceive. 
 

I thought it was just another slip up of his. 

[TexasTiger 14,226]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

True, one was a misspeak and the other an outright attempt to deceive. 
 

I thought it was just another slip up of his. 

One was a misspeak and one was sheer idiocy. Anyone not an idiot knows the difference.

 

[wdefromtx 3,573]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

One was a misspeak and one was sheer idiocy. Anyone not an idiot knows the difference.

 

Any one not an idiot knows what he was trying to say…

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/

But keep being one and trying to find a “gotcha” moment. 

[TexasTiger 14,226]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

Any one not an idiot knows what he was trying to say…

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/

But keep being one and trying to find a “gotcha” moment. 

My God, the denial is amazing! Watch that video! Listen to what he’s saying! Big cult energy coming from you!🤣🤣🤣

[auburnatl1 6,108]

3 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

That is why I said "at that time." 

You must have been one of the ones losing your mind back then if someone had reservations about the vaccine. 

You keep trying to debate the effectiveness of the vaccine when that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about how people acted when (before we knew is they were going to work.) 

It does not matter if they ended up working. When they first came out people had no right to try to mandate the vaccine. Period. 

Turns out they had no right even after time. 

Do you still get upset when someone does not want to get the covid vaccine today?

My only issue is I find a level of selfishness involved in that you’re twice as likely to be a carrier.   IMO  It’s ok to decide that the cost to an individual rights is too high for certain things  - but what’s disappointing is when someone can’t even acknowledge those rights impact others and own up to it.

 

[AU9377 5,995]

35 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

True, one was a misspeak and the other an outright attempt to deceive. 
 

I thought it was just another slip up of his. 

Do you think that Trump handled Covid well?  He literally wanted to ignore it all and referred to it as a hoax early on.  It was new to everyone, but he did the one thing that was the most harmful, he made it political.  As usual, it quickly became how it would impact him, his future, his economy. 

People have such short memories and attention spans.

[I_M4_AU 8,914]

19 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I thought you believed that he has one?

Evidently, Joe is beginning to think he has a medical condition also:

 

Should be an interesting weekend.

[AU9377 5,995]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

Evidently, Joe is beginning to think he has a medical condition also:

 

Should be an interesting weekend.

Should be.

[wdefromtx 3,573]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

My God, the denial is amazing! Watch that video! Listen to what he’s saying! Big cult energy coming from you!🤣🤣🤣

Cult energy coming from me? LMAO

Thanks for the laugh.

You are one of the biggest cult guys here. But I digress. 

 

[Leftfield 3,347]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

There is a huge difference though. 

We know that not wearing your seat belt is way more dangerous in an accident. 

We know about driving impaired. 

We also know that well established vaccines work. Key point being well established, and those vaccines just did not appear in months. They took years and many cases decades to come out with a version that was safe and effective. A lot of the people I know that did not get it had been vaccinated for other things. 

Individual rights should not be trumped based on "we hope this works."  Prove it works and is safe first. Don't get upset if people pass on it because they don't want to be guinea pigs. Which is the problem, one side could not understand that at the time and some still don't. So when people hear Biden or someone else say you won't get covid you have backlash because we know it is not true and see him as just another person trying to tell them what to do. 

 

Was trying to not jump back in, because it was rightfully pointed out that this is not the focus of the OP, but...

....the vaccine went through the exact same testing that any other vaccine goes through. Everything. No steps were skipped. Some were done concurrently, which was not the usual process, but nothing was left out.

https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/covid-vaccine/testing

There are many reasons it was able to be developed and tested so quickly. All of this has been pointed out before, of course, but skeptics still want to shout that it was an unproven vaccine. Of course, none of it was promoted by any of the sources that skeptics listened to, so they either didn't know or didn't want to believe it. 

[TexasTiger 14,226]

22 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Cult energy coming from me? LMAO

Thanks for the laugh.

You are one of the biggest cult guys here. But I digress. 

 

Anyone who watches that video and can’t tell he was utterly clueless is delusional for one reason or another.

[wdefromtx 3,573]

4 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Was trying to not jump back in, because it was rightfully pointed out that this is not the focus of the OP, but...

....the vaccine went through the exact same testing that any other vaccine goes through. Everything. No steps were skipped. Some were done concurrently, which was not the usual process, but nothing was left out.

https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/covid-vaccine/testing

There are many reasons it was able to be developed and tested so quickly. All of this has been pointed out before, of course, but skeptics still want to shout that it was an unproven vaccine. Of course, none of it was promoted by any of the sources that skeptics listened to, so they either didn't know or didn't want to believe it. 

Two things, one speeding up the trials is still different than following the normal process. So I do not blame people for having concerns. 

Second, this isn't exactly what the Fauci and the other health folks were saying. I clearly remember them saying that while there have been trials and they think they are safe, there still needs to and will be complete testing. Hence, the emergency designation for use. This was the prevalent message. If they wanted people to think otherwise they should have had a different message. 

Emergency Use Authorization Vs. Full FDA Approval: What’s the Difference? > News > Yale Medicine

[wdefromtx 3,573]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Anyone who watches that video and can’t tell he was utterly clueless is delusional for one reason or another.

Are you calling me a liberal? Because you just literally described videos of Biden for at least the last 4 years and just now they are realizing the same thing about Biden.

 

 

[Leftfield 3,347]

25 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Two things, one speeding up the trials is still different than following the normal process. So I do not blame people for having concerns. 

Second, this isn't exactly what the Fauci and the other health folks were saying. I clearly remember them saying that while there have been trials and they think they are safe, there still needs to and will be complete testing. Hence, the emergency designation for use. This was the prevalent message. If they wanted people to think otherwise they should have had a different message. 

Emergency Use Authorization Vs. Full FDA Approval: What’s the Difference? > News > Yale Medicine

Fauci may have said that when it was still in the testing stages, but you would have to show me proof he said that after the EUA was issued, because the EUA wouldn't have been issued before testing was complete.

The site you attached clearly says full testing must be done for an EUA. It says the only difference is that participants didn't have to be followed as long after vaccination before the EUA was issued. Do you believe that would have made a significant difference in the attitude of the general public in decades past? I don't. I think it was the conditioned distrust of our institutions that has become so prevalent in recent years that caused so many on the right to reject it. Talking heads seized on the nuance to say it wasn't fully tested, and so many were more than happy to believe it.

[wdefromtx 3,573]

34 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Fauci may have said that when it was still in the testing stages, but you would have to show me proof he said that after the EUA was issued, because the EUA wouldn't have been issued before testing was complete.

The site you attached clearly says full testing must be done for an EUA. It says the only difference is that participants didn't have to be followed as long after vaccination before the EUA was issued. Do you believe that would have made a significant difference in the attitude of the general public in decades past? I don't. I think it was the conditioned distrust of our institutions that has become so prevalent in recent years that caused so many on the right to reject it. Talking heads seized on the nuance to say it wasn't fully tested, and so many were more than happy to believe it.

I would have to go find exact clips of Fauci, but it is just easier to link the process from the FDA. 

Emergency Use Authorization for Vaccines Explained | FDA

FDA expects vaccine manufacturers to include in their EUA requests a plan for active follow-up for safety, including deaths, hospitalizations, and other serious or clinically significant adverse events, among individuals who receive the vaccine under an EUA, to inform ongoing benefit-risk determinations to support continuation of the EUA.

FDA also expects manufacturers who receive an EUA to continue their clinical trials to obtain additional safety and effectiveness information and pursue licensure (approval).

 

They then go on to continuous monitoring like they do for other vaccines. 

So, yeah they tried to do as good as possible to test but you can only do things so fast. 

The J and J vaccine is an example of things going wrong. If you recall they paused use, then limited it's use to people that had no other alternative because of potential blood clots. Then they eventually said it is not really effective. Then the government quit buying it for stockpile and eventually got its EUA revoked. I think J and J tried to get the FDA to end the EUA for it on the down low to save face. Regardless, do you think that vaccine gets approved if it goes through normal process? 

Not sure why people don't understand why people would be skeptical. Look at all the drugs that make it through and get approval under normal circumstances that never should have. Or FDA having major regulatory issues....(looking at you Purdue Pharma.) 

You do need a crazy conspiracy theory to be skeptical. History speaks for itself.

Edited July 19 by wdefromtx

[AUFAN78 4,148]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

I wonder what they think about Trump suggesting bleach as a treatment? 

Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?

Jessica Calefati

PolitiFact.com

Joe Biden: On COVID-19, Donald Trump said that “maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay.”

PolitiFact’s ruling: Mostly False.

Here’s why: Joe Biden criticized President Donald Trump’s handling of the coronavirus pandemic, saying during a speech on the economy that Trump had given up trying to manage a crisis he’s ill equipped to solve.

"And when it comes to COVID-19, after months of doing nothing, other than predicting the virus would disappear, or maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay, Trump has simply given up," said Biden, who delivered his remarks at a metalworks factory near his hometown of Scranton on Thursday.

Trump spoke about the role he thought disinfectants could play in tackling an infection caused by the virus during a now infamous April 23 briefing. But he didn’t say people should drink bleach.

His comments came after William Bryan, the undersecretary for science and technology at the Department of Homeland Security, presented a study that found sun exposure and cleaning agents like bleach can kill the virus when it lingers on surfaces.

Trump remarked on the effectiveness of those methods and wondered if they could help address infections in the human body.

Here are his full comments:

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"

He continued.

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."

Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

"It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object."

Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. Nevertheless, his remarks led some companies and state agencies to issue warnings about ingesting disinfectants. The maker of Lysol said in a statement that "under no circumstance" should its products be used in the human body.

The Biden campaign did not respond to a request for comment about what evidence the former vice president relied on when he claimed the president suggested Americans drink bleach to combat the virus.

Our ruling

Biden said Trump said drinking bleach could help fight the coronavirus. Trump did not specifically recommend ingesting disinfectants, but he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body, such as the lungs. We rate Biden’s claim Mostly False.

[wdefromtx 3,573]

8 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?

Jessica Calefati

PolitiFact.com

Joe Biden: On COVID-19, Donald Trump said that “maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay.”

PolitiFact’s ruling: Mostly False.

Here’s why: Joe Biden criticized President Donald Trump’s handling of the coronavirus pandemic, saying during a speech on the economy that Trump had given up trying to manage a crisis he’s ill equipped to solve.

"And when it comes to COVID-19, after months of doing nothing, other than predicting the virus would disappear, or maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay, Trump has simply given up," said Biden, who delivered his remarks at a metalworks factory near his hometown of Scranton on Thursday.

Trump spoke about the role he thought disinfectants could play in tackling an infection caused by the virus during a now infamous April 23 briefing. But he didn’t say people should drink bleach.

His comments came after William Bryan, the undersecretary for science and technology at the Department of Homeland Security, presented a study that found sun exposure and cleaning agents like bleach can kill the virus when it lingers on surfaces.

Trump remarked on the effectiveness of those methods and wondered if they could help address infections in the human body.

Here are his full comments:

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"

He continued.

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."

Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

"It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object."

Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. Nevertheless, his remarks led some companies and state agencies to issue warnings about ingesting disinfectants. The maker of Lysol said in a statement that "under no circumstance" should its products be used in the human body.

The Biden campaign did not respond to a request for comment about what evidence the former vice president relied on when he claimed the president suggested Americans drink bleach to combat the virus.

Our ruling

Biden said Trump said drinking bleach could help fight the coronavirus. Trump did not specifically recommend ingesting disinfectants, but he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body, such as the lungs. We rate Biden’s claim Mostly False.

They talk about cult members, but do they teach libs to always outright ignore facts and reality? In another thread they complain you can’t back it up. But I bet they either ignore this altogether or they will dispute it. Or claim Politifact is a cult website.

Or they just get mad and start name calling. They must learn that too. 
 

 

[auburnatl1 6,108]

35 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?

Jessica Calefati

PolitiFact.com

Joe Biden: On COVID-19, Donald Trump said that “maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay.”

PolitiFact’s ruling: Mostly False.

Here’s why: Joe Biden criticized President Donald Trump’s handling of the coronavirus pandemic, saying during a speech on the economy that Trump had given up trying to manage a crisis he’s ill equipped to solve.

"And when it comes to COVID-19, after months of doing nothing, other than predicting the virus would disappear, or maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay, Trump has simply given up," said Biden, who delivered his remarks at a metalworks factory near his hometown of Scranton on Thursday.

Trump spoke about the role he thought disinfectants could play in tackling an infection caused by the virus during a now infamous April 23 briefing. But he didn’t say people should drink bleach.

His comments came after William Bryan, the undersecretary for science and technology at the Department of Homeland Security, presented a study that found sun exposure and cleaning agents like bleach can kill the virus when it lingers on surfaces.

Trump remarked on the effectiveness of those methods and wondered if they could help address infections in the human body.

Here are his full comments:

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"

He continued.

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."

Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

"It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object."

Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. Nevertheless, his remarks led some companies and state agencies to issue warnings about ingesting disinfectants. The maker of Lysol said in a statement that "under no circumstance" should its products be used in the human body.

The Biden campaign did not respond to a request for comment about what evidence the former vice president relied on when he claimed the president suggested Americans drink bleach to combat the virus.

Our ruling

Biden said Trump said drinking bleach could help fight the coronavirus. Trump did not specifically recommend ingesting disinfectants, but he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body, such as the lungs. We rate Biden’s claim Mostly False.

I remember that press conf. Trump was coming up with wacky on the fly medical solutions. The bleach stuff must have evolved from his injecting disinfectants … brain storm .

The irony is that he was constantly touting his Warp Speed initiative - which to maga is now the serum of Satan.

[wdefromtx 3,573]

4 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I remember that press conf. Trump was coming up with wacky on the fly medical solutions. The bleach stuff must have evolved from his injecting disinfectants … brain storm .

The irony is that he was constantly touting his Warp Speed initiative - which to maga is now the serum of Satan.

Serum of Satan….hadn’t heard that one before. 🤣

[AUFAN78 4,148]

28 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

They talk about cult members, but do they teach libs to always outright ignore facts and reality? In another thread they complain you can’t back it up. But I bet they either ignore this altogether or they will dispute it. Or claim Politifact is a cult website.

Or they just get mad and start name calling. They must learn that too. 
 

 

The sad thing is even after all the lies are debunked they continue to repeat them. I guess when it's all you've got you just stick with it. Sadly, proves the adage "you can't fix stupid."