I Think the Dems Have Lost the High Ground

[I_M4_AU 8,914]

2 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Has Trump admitted that he lost the 2020 election?  The democratically elected President of the United States should be able to speak truth in that regard.

Not that I am aware of; why is that an issue?

The democratically elected President of the U.S. said he wants to bring down the temperature of the political climate, but he is not including himself in the cooling.  Typical Joe.

[I_M4_AU 8,914]

3 minutes ago, cbo said:

So it was fine to raise the temperature immediately following the shooting and it was fine for Trump to do it for the past 8 years but now you're blaming Democrats for continuing to run a campaign against their political opponent?

What a misread.  The temperature was going to rise after a shooting no matter what I posted.  Remember George Floyd?

Trump tweeted mean things and should have toned it down, but that is who he is and directed his ire toward particular people such as Hillary, Joe, Obama as well as others, but not the voters.

The Dems, and in particular Joe (along with many on this board) have gone after Trump and his followers (MAGAs) as the problem.  Hillary did the same with her deploriable comment.  Joe had a whole speech on Labor Day of 2022 attacking citizens of the US as a threat to democracy.  Labeled them MAGAs and the left followed like little puppy dogs.

The only thing the left has to attack Trump on is the *threat do democracy* angle.  He can’t give it up, he is caught between a rock and a hard place.  He wants to bring down the temp, but can’t because his policies are sooooo bad.

14 minutes ago, cbo said:

You have to know Trump is the #1 reason the political climate became so heated.

No, the reason was the media relished in making Trump the bad guy, even using lies and hoaxes to do so.  Russia, Russia, Russia.  Yes, Trump got personal, but never called out the voter, just who they voted for.

16 minutes ago, cbo said:

And if you can prove that Biden is responsible for high gas prices, I will send you a free gas card to help you out. 

I threw that in just to see you head explode.

[HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN 277]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

What a misread.  The temperature was going to rise after a shooting no matter what I posted.  Remember George Floyd?

Trump tweeted mean things and should have toned it down, but that is who he is and directed his ire toward particular people such as Hillary, Joe, Obama as well as others, but not the voters.

The Dems, and in particular Joe (along with many on this board) have gone after Trump and his followers (MAGAs) as the problem.  Hillary did the same with her deploriable comment.  Joe had a whole speech on Labor Day of 2022 attacking citizens of the US as a threat to democracy.  Labeled them MAGAs and the left followed like little puppy dogs.

The only thing the left has to attack Trump on is the *threat do democracy* angle.  He can’t give it up, he is caught between a rock and a hard place.  He wants to bring down the temp, but can’t because his policies are sooooo bad.

No, the reason was the media relished in making Trump the bad guy, even using lies and hoaxes to do so.  Russia, Russia, Russia.  Yes, Trump got personal, but never called out the voter, just who they voted for.

I threw that in just to see you head explode.

Ok Biden himself didn't do anything to raise gas prices, his puppet masters in charge of him are responsible for that! We now get oil imported from friggin Venezuela! We have our own oil which we were using when Trump was in office. We need to use it again. Let me explain this to you...lower gas prices=more affordable commodities. I'm poor. That's very important to me. I have to stretch my hard earned dollar as do many other Americans. Send me a Chevron gas card.

[HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN 277]

2 minutes ago, HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN said:

Ok Biden himself didn't do anything to raise gas prices, his puppet masters in charge of him are responsible for that! We now get oil imported from friggin Venezuela! We have our own oil which we were using when Trump was in office. We need to use it again. Let me explain this to you...lower gas prices=more affordable commodities. I'm poor. That's very important to me. I have to stretch my hard earned dollar as do many other Americans. Send me a Chevron gas card.

Oops meant that for cbo

[cbo 8,677]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

What a misread.  The temperature was going to rise after a shooting no matter what I posted.  Remember George Floyd?

Trump tweeted mean things and should have toned it down, but that is who he is and directed his ire toward particular people such as Hillary, Joe, Obama as well as others, but not the voters.

The Dems, and in particular Joe (along with many on this board) have gone after Trump and his followers (MAGAs) as the problem.  Hillary did the same with her deploriable comment.  Joe had a whole speech on Labor Day of 2022 attacking citizens of the US as a threat to democracy.  Labeled them MAGAs and the left followed like little puppy dogs.

The only thing the left has to attack Trump on is the *threat do democracy* angle.  He can’t give it up, he is caught between a rock and a hard place.  He wants to bring down the temp, but can’t because his policies are sooooo bad.

No, the reason was the media relished in making Trump the bad guy, even using lies and hoaxes to do so.  Russia, Russia, Russia.  Yes, Trump got personal, but never called out the voter, just who they voted for.

I threw that in just to see you head explode.

Alright, I'll give you that last one. Good one. 

But you're delusional about Trump. I point out Biden's clear deficiencies all the time. You just can't do the same with Trump. If he stabbed you in the face, you would say "Biden did nothing to stop it!"

[AuCivilEng1 12,082]

34 minutes ago, HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN said:

Ok Biden himself didn't do anything to raise gas prices, his puppet masters in charge of him are responsible for that! We now get oil imported from friggin Venezuela! We have our own oil which we were using when Trump was in office. We need to use it again. Let me explain this to you...lower gas prices=more affordable commodities. I'm poor. That's very important to me. I have to stretch my hard earned dollar as do many other Americans. Send me a Chevron gas card.

This simply just isn’t true. You’re either knowingly being false or you’re falling for lies.

 

[AUFAN78 4,148]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

The documents case is the most straight forward of every case.  Did he have boxes and boxes of documents that he refused for over a year to return that he was required to return?  Yes.    What was the justice dept supposed to do?  Just say oh well since its you it is ok?

Look, you can play dumb or perhaps be dumb. IDC.  Trump nor Biden's documents should have been known to the American people and certainly should have been handled discreetly per the norm.  

[AuCivilEng1 12,082]

17 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Look, you can play dumb or perhaps be dumb. IDC.  Trump nor Biden's documents should have been known to the American people and certainly should have been handled discreetly per the norm.  

That’s the point! They tried to handle this discreetly. Trump kept fighting back. That’s the entire reason he was in trouble. I am a Navy veteran and I’ve been around classified and secret information a ton. You don’t mishandle them, and they don’t belong to you. The fact that he had them laying around in unmarked boxes in showers is infuriating. I’ve seen sailors and marines hemmed up for far less than knowing holding and mishandling classified documents. 
 

Whether you like Trump or not, as a patriot and citizen of this country, knowing a president cares so little for classified information should at the very least make you uneasy.

[AUFAN78 4,148]

4 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

That’s the point! They tried to handle this discreetly. Trump kept fighting back. That’s the entire reason he was in trouble. I am a Navy veteran and I’ve been around classified and secret information a ton. You don’t mishandle them, and they don’t belong to you. The fact that he had them laying around in unmarked boxes in showers is infuriating. I’ve seen sailors and marines hemmed up for far less than knowing holding and mishandling classified documents. 
 

Whether you like Trump or not, as a patriot and citizen of this country, knowing a president cares so little for classified information should at the very least make you uneasy.

Ex-presidents and Vice Presidents keep certain documentation. Been happening forever. If I recall correctly, it was noted some of Biden documents went back to his congressional days. IOW he had them for a while. 

Fast forward to Trump and it's suddenly a problem. 

Like you, I served for 24 years and chat weekly on a forum with BFAM. Mostly special operators in some form or another. The consensus? It was always BS. 

Look, I believe in beating your opponent at the ballot box not via lawfare. IIWII

[AuCivilEng1 12,082]

17 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Ex-presidents and Vice Presidents keep certain documentation. Been happening forever. If I recall correctly, it was noted some of Biden documents went back to his congressional days. IOW he had them for a while. 

Fast forward to Trump and it's suddenly a problem. 

Like you, I served for 24 years and chat weekly on a forum with BFAM. Mostly special operators in some form or another. The consensus? It was always BS. 

Look, I believe in beating your opponent at the ballot box not via lawfare. IIWII

It wasn’t illegal for him to have the documents. It was illegal for him to refuse to give them up. They were also grossly mishandled. I don’t really know who you talk to or how you conducted yourself when you served, but in the military I was in, throwing boxes of classified docs in showers for anyone to see is a pretty big issue. 
 

Trump broke laws. He doesn’t get to just run for president and that quits mattering. If Joe Biden set fire to the WH on his way out, he would be held accountable. 
 

Unless it was an official act apparently. 😂

[HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN 277]

1 hour ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

This simply just isn’t true. You’re either knowingly being false or you’re falling for lies.

 

Venezuela oil to US was 153,000 b/d in July 2023. We don't need their supply. We have our own

[AUFAN78 4,148]

16 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

It wasn’t illegal for him to have the documents. It was illegal for him to refuse to give them up. They were also grossly mishandled.

First, and I missed this earlier, Thank you for your service!

Joe had 20-plus-year-old documents. There was no rush to obtain them. There never is, which is kinda the point. 

Why did urgent recovery suddenly become a thing? And whether they are in a bedroom, bathroom, garage or corvette, how have these documents harmed Americans?

[Leftfield 3,347]

6 minutes ago, HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN said:

Venezuela oil to US was 153,000 b/d in July 2023. We don't need their supply. We have our own

Venezuela produces heavy crude. US produces light. It's far more complicated than just "we produce enough oil." There are issues with refinery capacity and world markets.

Sanctions on Venezuelan oil were eased last year, which is why purchases are going back up.

[HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN 277]

2 minutes ago, HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN said:

Venezuela oil to US was 153,000 b/d in July 2023. We don't need their supply. We have our own

We get our info from the truthful internet right? There's also the lying internet. So much misinformation is out there and it's up to us to decide what's true then share with those we argue with. Agree or disagree with me brother but know this, the mainstream media and their agenda is responsible for trashing this country. The devil is working hard in America. We're so divided and hatred will not let us see what the other side sees.  

As long as there are humans in politics, there will be err in politics. 

May God help our country!

[WillMunny 1,556]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:47 PM, cbo said:

Trump just won the election

Maybe.  And I hope so.  He's been given two aces in the hole: Biden's debate debacle, and the photo of a lifetime with blood streaming down his face while holding a defiant fist pose before being dragged away by the Secret Service after an unsuccessful assassination attempt.  Both of those aces are political gold that fell into his lap.

At this point, Biden cannot win the election.  But Trump, as volatile and unpredictable as he is, could certainly lose it.

Trump's handlers will tell him to be calm, take the high ground, avoid gambles and mistakes, and ride his two aces.  But Trump is politically unsavvy, prone to angry reactions and dumb statements, and can be easily riled.

Any polished politician in Trump's shoes would simply cruise to a win.  But Trump is............well...........Trump...

Since this is primarily a sports web site, let me put my thoughts in sports terms...

Many years ago, when Bobby Knight (Indiana) and Dale Brown (LSU) were still coaching, their teams played a game against one another.  And somehow, LSU built a seemingly insurmountable 2nd half lead.  Well, Knight was a savvy, seasoned coach.  But Brown was a riverboat gambler, and often made coaching decisions that left people scratching their heads.

As things turned out that night, Brown handled the lead poorly, allowing Indiana to crawl back into the game and eventually win.

Knight said this after the game (paraphrasing): "In the 2nd half, when LSU had their big lead, I never gave up hope because of their coach."

That pretty much sums up my current thoughts about this election.  Yes, Trump is in the driver's seat.  But damn, he's still probably going to crash the car.

[Leftfield 3,347]

14 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Why did urgent recovery suddenly become a thing? And whether they are in a bedroom, bathroom, garage or corvette, how have these documents harmed Americans?

Because some of the documents contained information on nuclear secrets, including allies' nuclear capabilities, and also detailed plans of a potential attack on Iran. It would be extremely damaging to our relationship with any nation if we proved ourselves incapable of being discreet about their defense, particularly if a person we elected as President was responsible for it.

Trump has always been careless in boasting about classified information. As you may recall, he posted a classified satellite photo to Twitter, and the capabilities of that satellite were not something we wanted other nations to be aware of: https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/appalled-witnesses-told-special-counsel-trumps-handling-classified/story%3fid=109362691.

He also admitted to Bob Woodward in an interview that the US had developed a new weapon system: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/trump-secret-new-weapon-412539.

Many witnesses have remarked how Trump got a charge out of revealing secret information, without thought to the impact it could have.

It just reinforces what we already know about him...he's a petulant kid in a 78-year-old's body.

[Leftfield 3,347]

27 minutes ago, HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN said:

We get our info from the truthful internet right? There's also the lying internet. So much misinformation is out there and it's up to us to decide what's true then share with those we argue with. Agree or disagree with me brother but know this, the mainstream media and their agenda is responsible for trashing this country. The devil is working hard in America. We're so divided and hatred will not let us see what the other side sees.  

As long as there are humans in politics, there will be err in politics. 

May God help our country!

Are you....arguing with yourself?

You appear to be addressing someone else, likely me because I addressed the post you quoted, but ar the same time, it doesn't appear to be related to what I said.

[HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN 277]

1 minute ago, Leftfield said:

Are you....arguing with yourself?

You appear to be addressing someone else, likely me because I addressed the post you quoted, but ar the same time, it doesn't appear to be related to what I said.

Sorry bro, it appears that I'm arguing with myself, but I was not. It was meant for someone else. 

War Eagle anyway!

[E'Town4Bama 174]

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The documents case is the most straight forward of every case.  Did he have boxes and boxes of documents that he refused for over a year to return that he was required to return?  Yes.    What was the justice dept supposed to do?  Just say oh well since its you it is ok?

Trump has 5 years to return them or declassify from the end of his administration. 

[Leftfield 3,347]

Just now, E'Town4Bama said:

Trump has 5 years to return them or declassify from the end of his administration. 

Source?

[E'Town4Bama 174]

Just now, Leftfield said:

Source?

Do your own homework

[Leftfield 3,347]

Just now, E'Town4Bama said:

Do your own homework

So a bunch of BS then.

Thanks for confirming.

[HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN 277]

Just now, E'Town4Bama said:

Do your own homework

Dude don't mention homework is too close to the beginning of the school year and we just had our Independence Day celebration

[arein0 1,104]

2 minutes ago, E'Town4Bama said:

Trump has 5 years to return them or declassify from the end of his administration. 

https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2023/nr23-016

The PRA requires that all records created by Presidents (and Vice-Presidents) be turned over to the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) at the end of their administrations. 

[E'Town4Bama 174]

Why are there 5 and 12 year limits on certain things. Again for a lawyer to answer.

https://www.archives.gov/files/guidance-on-presidential-records-from-the-national-archives-and-records-administration-2020.pdf