For all the bickering

[auburnatl1 6,108]

The electoral college makes most of us basically irrelevant. In this cycle - it looks like it’s about simply 7 states.

Six months out from Election Day, all eyes are on seven toss-up states — Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin — where 93 electoral votes will be up for grabs this fall.

https://apple.news/ABmS7FB69Ska8Aw2w-VMdTA

 

 

[homersapien 12,215]

Archaic system.  It should have been changed long ago.

[auburnatl1 6,108]

Just now, homersapien said:

Archaic system.  It should have been changed long ago.

People forget how state-centric our history and model is. Minimally each state should prorate their electoral votes. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,860]

One of the biggest dangers to the future of the Republic is that an increasingly large number of people don't believe they have any real say or influence on who leads the country or what problems get consideration by our elected officials. 

Having an Electoral college system where most peoples presidential vote....literally...doesn't matter...certainly doesn't help that perception. 

 

 

 

 

 

[AU9377 5,995]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

One of the biggest dangers to the future of the Republic is that an increasingly large number of people don't believe they have any real say or influence on who leads the country or what problems get consideration by our elected officials. 

Having an Electoral college system where most peoples presidential vote....literally...doesn't matter...certainly doesn't help that perception. 

 

 

 

 

 

I had an Italian friend (from Northern Italy) just come out and ask me in 2016.... How can your country claim to be by the people when the person that loses the popular vote by 3.5 million votes wins the election?  Trying to justify that system convinced me of just how ridiculous it actually is.

Edited May 24 by AU9377

[autigeremt 7,194]

Good luck trying to get these people to change it. 

[SaltyTiger 8,562]

6 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

People forget how state-centric our history and model is. Minimally each state should prorate their electoral votes. 

Makes sense. 

[homersapien 12,215]

13 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Makes sense. 

 

Replace instead of patch.

[SaltyTiger 8,562]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

 

Replace instead of patch.

What do you want to replace it with. Know you have said in the past but been a while.

[homersapien 12,215]

15 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

What do you want to replace it with. Know you have said in the past but been a while.

In broad terms:

Some variation on one person / one vote. 

Popular vote prevails. 

No more minority governments.

 

[Aufan59 168]

Without the electoral college, the party that is 1-7 in the last 8 popular votes might have to adjust their views and rhetoric to become more moderate and appealing to voters.

 

And that just isn’t fair.

[DKW 86 7,892]

On 5/24/2024 at 1:37 PM, auburnatl1 said:

People forget how state-centric our history and model is. Minimally each state should prorate their electoral votes. 

Winner-take-all was a bad idea from day one. I don't even care to hear who proposed it. It was and is a bad idea.

Edited May 26 by DKW 86

[DKW 86 7,892]

It will mean that CA, NY, and IL can almost by themselves choose the President. 

When Obama won the Democrat Nomination, his entire vote total lead came from three counties in IL. HRC essentially ran even with him everywhere else.

[homersapien 12,215]

On 5/24/2024 at 3:30 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

One of the biggest dangers to the future of the Republic is that an increasingly large number of people don't believe they have any real say or influence on who leads the country or what problems get consideration by our elected officials. 

Having an Electoral college system where most peoples presidential vote....literally...doesn't matter...certainly doesn't help that perception.

Hell, something like 35% of the populace don't believe elections are conducted fairly!

Our democracy is melting away right in front of us.

[auburnatl1 6,108]

14 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Hell, something like 35% of the populace don't believe elections are conducted fairly!

Our democracy is melting away right in front of us.

I’ll double hell you. The climate debate is about that we now dont trust…. nerds either.  They too are up to something - and it ain’t good.

Though it’s easy to pick on maga conspiracy types because many fit that personality profile - the broader problem is societal trust in general. In virtually anything. From churches, to banks, to schools. We’ve become a jaded bunch.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1597/confidence-institutions.aspx

[homersapien 12,215]

12 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

I’ll double hell you. The climate debate is about that we now dont trust…. nerds either.  They too are up to something - and it ain’t good.

Though it’s easy to pick on maga conspiracy types because many fit that personality profile - the broader problem is societal trust in general. In virtually anything. From churches, to banks, to schools. We’ve become a jaded bunch.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1597/confidence-institutions.aspx

Absolutely.

Everything depends on trust - business, our financial system, capitalism, our economy, our democracy.  You can always expect a small percentage of the population that don't trust our institutions, but when that number starts to get significant, our society begins to unravel.

Hate to say it, but we almost need a major war (a definite outside threat) to reverse it. I'm not sure a relatively slow progressing existential threat (AGW) will do it.  And we know pointless wars (Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan...) are actually counter-productive.

 

Edited May 27 by homersapien

[DKW 86 7,892]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Absolutely.

Everything depends on trust - business, our financial system, capitalism, our economy, our democracy.  You can always expect a small percentage of the population that don't trust our institutions, but when that number starts to get significant, our society begins to unravel.

Hate to say it, but we almost need a major war (a definite outside threat) to reverse it. I'm not sure a relatively slow progressing existential threat (AGW) will do it.  And we know pointless wars (Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan...) are actually counter-productive.

Those internal to the US, that hate the US for various reasons, do not want us in a uniting war. They want us exactly where we are now. Divided and fussing about money going to Israel and Ukraine. 

The real enemy in the future is China. The Russian economy could not do a full-scale war with us. China on the other hand easily could.

Edited May 27 by DKW 86

[Cardin Drake 2,076]

15 hours ago, homersapien said:

Hell, something like 35% of the populace don't believe elections are conducted fairly!

Our democracy is melting away right in front of us.

Why should anybody trust our elections when some states send mail-in ballots out in mass?  Anybody can get a ballot and send it in.  There are no safeguards.  Can you explain how this process is trustworthy?

[AUFAN78 4,148]

55 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

Why should anybody trust our elections when some states send mail-in ballots out in mass?  Anybody can get a ballot and send it in.  There are no safeguards.  Can you explain how this process is trustworthy?

Trustworthiness in elections went out the window with mail-in voting, unsecured drop boxes, ballot harvesting, exempting signature verification, etc.

We should have a goal that 0% of our citizens question elections in the future. We won't.

 

Edited May 27 by AUFAN78

[auburnatl1 6,108]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Absolutely.

Everything depends on trust - business, our financial system, capitalism, our economy, our democracy.  You can always expect a small percentage of the population that don't trust our institutions, but when that number starts to get significant, our society begins to unravel.

Hate to say it, but we almost need a major war (a definite outside threat) to reverse it. I'm not sure a relatively slow progressing existential threat (AGW) will do it.  And we know pointless wars (Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan...) are actually counter-productive.

 

Take 2 maga neighbors in opp or 2 progressive neighbors in mountain brook. Same race, religion, culture, economic class, personality. 

And one went to AU and one went to Bama…  Colleges.

We’re a complicated species to unite and will go tribal on literally any damn thing.  A president HAS to be a uniter in a disparate country like ours, and yet it’s the last criteria we now look for.
 

[homersapien 12,215]

3 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

Why should anybody trust our elections when some states send mail-in ballots out in mass?  Anybody can get a ballot and send it in.  There are no safeguards.  Can you explain how this process is trustworthy?

Over 60 court cases upheld the election results.

https://campaignlegal.org/results-lawsuits-regarding-2020-elections

Please don't accept Trump MAGA lies.  Please.  For your own sake as well as the country's.

[homersapien 12,215]

2 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Trustworthiness in elections went out the window with mail-in voting, unsecured drop boxes, ballot harvesting, exempting signature verification, etc.

We should have a goal that 0% of our citizens question elections in the future. We won't.

 

Nonesense.  See my response to Cardin Above.

[homersapien 12,215]

1 hour ago, auburnatl1 said:

Take 2 maga neighbors in opp or 2 progressive neighbors in mountain brook. Same race, religion, culture, economic class, personality. 

And one went to AU and one went to Bama…  Colleges.

We’re a complicated species to unite and will go tribal on literally any damn thing.  A president HAS to be a uniter in a disparate country like ours, and yet it’s the last criteria we now look for.
 

[Cardin Drake 2,076]

10 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Over 60 court cases upheld the election results.

https://campaignlegal.org/results-lawsuits-regarding-2020-elections

Please don't accept Trump MAGA lies.  Please.  For your own sake as well as the country's.

That's one of the problems.  The courts won't get involved. The process must be secure. It isn't.  I followed the Kari Lake court case pretty closely.  Here's a few of the problems that she uncovered that the court ruled were not problems. The signature verification was done so fast that it was clear that it was not actually done. 99% plus were approved with an average verification time of less than a second. That is not verification. The court said, well, they did it so that's all that matters.  Worse yet, state law requires the incoming ballots to be counted by the county. They did not do it. They sent them to a 3rd party house, who also did not count the incoming ballots.  They did an estimate. 35,000 ballots more than were "estimated" to have arrived at their facility went back to the county. There was testimony that the 3rd party allowed family members to bring in ballots late. Regardless, state law was not followed. The courts said in essence, too bad.  The list goes on and on.  The process is not secure. You know it. Your party knows it, yet you regard it as a feature not a bug.  

[homersapien 12,215]

Kari Lake fan, uh?  I am not surprised.

https://azmirror.com/2024/05/02/appeals-court-hears-kari-lake-election-case-has-to-remind-her-lawyer-how-appeals-work/

An ally of fellow election denier Donald Trump, Lake never conceded to Hobbs and has continually claimed the election was stolen, despite her claims failing to convince judges in December 2022 and May 2023 trials, as well as multiple appeals in between the two. 

Olsen on Thursday focused on claims that Maricopa County didn’t conduct required logic and accuracy testing for its tabulators and ballot-on-demand printers ahead of the 2022 election, leading to issues with those tabulators reading ballots on Election Day. Maricopa County has continually denied Lake’s allegations that it failed to perform logic and accuracy tests required by law. 

https://elections.maricopa.gov/voting/just-the-facts.html#Myths

Edited May 27 by homersapien