Stop praising Freeze for everything good but blaming Harsin and Gus for everything bad

[ScotsAU 1,390]

On 11/19/2023 at 4:12 PM, TeamZero77 said:

A bare cupboard at Auburn has more talent than NMSU and damn sure enough talent to play better than a 3 TD loss. 

What's the worst class Auburn has had the last 10 years in recruiting? I haven't looked but I would bet our worst class the past 10 years is better than Kiffin's best class at Ole Miss. So don't give me "bare cupboard" BS. Gus's last class was #7 nationally. Hell, he recruited inside the top 10 damn near every year and Steele was killing it recruiting the defense. 

Talent didn't lose yesterday. Talent didn't sleepwalk 14-10 against a bad Cal team. Hugh won't have bigger wins than previous coaches. He will damn sure have worst losses though.

Can’t believe I missed this post and all it’s… problems… when I read this thread earlier. If you don’t think we have a talent issue right now, you either don’t know anything about football or haven’t been following recruiting the last few years. Let me pull some numbers for you:

- Chizik’s recruiting classes 15th, 6th, 5th, 11th

Malzahn- 10th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 12th, 11th, 9th. But a notable catch for Malzahn is that he didn’t recruit offensive line very well in his last few years, which isn’t going to work well when you want to be run first.

Harsin- 19th(most of which were Gus recruits that chose to stay with their commitments), 21st, and we were 56th… FIFTY-SIXTH… the day he was fired.

Freeze- Despite getting the 56th best class when he was hired, he got us all the way to 18th. Most of them were transfers that were thrust immediately into playing time because the cabinet was so empty. Right now, we’re 15th, but actually have the 7th highest average player score. 
 

Gus was recruiting good players, but he was missing out on some key positions consistently, especially offensive line which is essential to be good in today’s game. Harsin just didn’t recruit well at all. And on top of that, we had substantially more transfer portal exits during his tenure than other teams, including running off a QB who I think nearly everyone wishes we still had right now given how he’s playing at Oregon.

[e808 3,288]

1 hour ago, ScotsAU said:

I would say the team we played this year is quite a bit better than WKU last year. That team lost 13-40 to Troy and was up and down all season. The NMSU team was on an 8 game win streak (now 9). 
 

As for the difference in our team in those 2 games… It was totally different. Last year, going into that WKU game, we’d pulled off an upset of TAMU, freed ourselves of Harsin, and were trying to fight our way into bowl eligibility. The players had a reason to be up for that game. Even then, it wasn’t that pretty of a game. It was 17-17 at halftime. We just ran away with it in the second half. 
 

This year, rather than needing the win versus NMSU, we took playing them for granted. Beating 3 SEC teams in a row, our players did not think a group of 5 team would put up any fight against us. When they did, our players didn’t find themselves and fight back. 

The first issue is not sure where the 8 game win streak came in at as I personally saw them lose to Hawaii on Sept 23 and they were pathetic. They also had a bye. Secondly the most recent teams they beat were Sam Houston , FIU and Latech bottom feeders of the conference . Then u said Troy beat WKU last year which I am pretty sure is better than Hawaii and UMass who beat New Mexico State this year. Everyone know CHF isn’t going to get fired. That is not only a bad loss but historically one. Think about this even with all the winning Saban has the ULM loss brought up. It has been brought up at nausea here. Only time will tell what happens next.

Edited November 21, 2023 by e808

[Headland Tiger 40]

1 hour ago, ScotsAU said:

I don’t think anyone wants to discourage rational conversation. But there’s a massive difference between talking about legitimate concerns and making illogical panic statements like “freeze is worse than Harsin.” I’ve been one of the biggest critics of it on this forum the last few days. I’m criticizing people that are drawing way too many and way too intense conclusions from one bad game. Jury is still out on freeze. For me , it’s mainly that it took surprisingly long to get things on track. We can and probably should talk about that kind of stuff. But saying he’s been a failure is not grounded in reality. He’s recruiting better than we have in years. And, prior to this game, we showed flashes of a more complete team than we’ve shown in a long time. So these statements are  grounded in overreaction to the last game, not reality. That serves no purpose. All it does is create potentially unnecessary doom and gloom and further divides the fanbase. Thus, that s*** should get called out and actively discouraged.

Well I haven’t said any of that and I too believe the jury is still out. And ultimately, this is a forum for discussion and why does it matter if some are over-reacting? How does that affect your life? Its just a board? Nothing I read on here affects my opinion or mood. I just enjoy seeing other fans react and enjoying some conversation. I don’t know, I guess I just feel like it’s pointless to police what people are saying on a board designed for discussion 🤷‍♂️ …as long as they’re respectful to other posters of course.

[Tiger 8,865]

ok so we basically need to just expect to have a total dud at least once a year under Freeze, similar to the Tuberville era. But I'd argue that the new chapter of college football we are about to enter is actually favorable for a team like us, considering our schedule strength and the rivals we play.

We can drop a game (maybe even 2, given the right circumstance), and still make the 12 team playoff.

 

Yes, I know it's insane to think about making the playoffs less than 72 hours after getting punked by New Mexico State at home.

[TexasTiger 14,529]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Yes, I know it's insane to think about making the playoffs less than 72 hours after getting punked by New Mexico State at home.

It’s healthy to have something to look forward to. 😉

[GwillMac6 20,849]

10 minutes ago, Tiger said:

ok so we basically need to just expect to have a total dud at least once a year under Freeze, similar to the Tuberville era. But I'd argue that the new chapter of college football we are about to enter is actually favorable for a team like us, considering our schedule strength and the rivals we play.

We can drop a game (maybe even 2, given the right circumstance), and still make the 12 team playoff.

 

Yes, I know it's insane to think about making the playoffs less than 72 hours after getting punked by New Mexico State at home.

 

[ScotsAU 1,390]

3 hours ago, Headland Tiger said:

Well I haven’t said any of that and I too believe the jury is still out. And ultimately, this is a forum for discussion and why does it matter if some are over-reacting? How does that affect your life? It’s just a board? Nothing I read on here affects my opinion or mood. I just enjoy seeing other fans react and enjoying some conversation. I don’t know, I guess I just feel like it’s pointless to police what people are saying on a board designed for discussion 🤷‍♂️ …as long as they’re respectful to other posters of course.

People underestimate the impact of board chatter. Players don’t usually read this stuff, and only a small percentage of parents do. But that doesn’t mean there’s not indirect issues. If enough people throw out the same emotionally guided but illogical hubbub, that info starts getting repeated on social media or around Auburn fans that don’t read message boards. It can very quickly become the mass opinion of the Auburn fan base. At that point, it hits the ears of boosters, players, or coaches, at which point there no benefit. The players that know differently feel like the fans are quitting on them. The fans show up to games with no expectation to win, thus killing home field advantage. And very quickly, the narrative that, in this case, freeze should be let go starts to take off.

Freeze hasn’t proven anything. But speculating or endorsing that he’s incompetent threatens pressure for Auburn to take action. 

[Headland Tiger 40]

4 hours ago, ScotsAU said:

People underestimate the impact of board chatter. Players don’t usually read this stuff, and only a small percentage of parents do. But that doesn’t mean there’s not indirect issues. If enough people throw out the same emotionally guided but illogical hubbub, that info starts getting repeated on social media or around Auburn fans that don’t read message boards. It can very quickly become the mass opinion of the Auburn fan base. At that point, it hits the ears of boosters, players, or coaches, at which point there no benefit. The players that know differently feel like the fans are quitting on them. The fans show up to games with no expectation to win, thus killing home field advantage. And very quickly, the narrative that, in this case, freeze should be let go starts to take off.

Freeze hasn’t proven anything. But speculating or endorsing that he’s incompetent threatens pressure for Auburn to take action. 

You give way too much credit to message boards 😂

[Old fan 47 825]

On 11/20/2023 at 6:14 AM, GreenTiger said:

Zero brings up some good points and fair concerns. It’s a really, really bad loss and the past coaches excuses have no bearing this week and probably need to be put to rest. 
 

I’m having a difficult time figuring out how I feel about CHF and the job he is doing. Certainly some positive things are happening in the program and in recruiting. On the field coaching or whatever he is doing in that area has been a head scratcher. I would expect Coach Montgomery to be replaced after the season and hopefully the replacement can run a better offense.

 

Yes. Like I have said, recruit all the four and five star kids you want, but they have to be coached well and developed. HF has put his own tail on the line by stressing how he prefers signing and developing high school players. He will get his chance with what could be a strong class if we don’t lose anybody else. If he fails then, ALL blame is on him. 

[1716AU 803]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:12 AM, aucom96 said:

I just wish we'd approach a coaching hire more thoughtfully than either "this guy coached at Auburn once!" or "this guy has the secret to beating Saban!" 

I thought we had TRIED to do that with Harsin, but then it turned out he didn't think he had to recruit... which should have come out in interviews. I think our problem is as much with who's hiring the coaches as the coaches themselves. 

Jimmy Rane

There is the beginning and ending of the issue

[aubiefifty 18,464]

On 11/19/2023 at 3:57 PM, TeamZero77 said:

This fanbase LOVES blaming past coaches and staffs for any little thing that goes wrong but then props up the current coach for every little thing that is good. It doesn't work this way!! Gus has been gone going on 4 years now but some here love to keep beating that dead horse. 

I'll get slammed for this but what in Hugh Freeze's past shows you that he is the man that will lead us past what the other coaches did? Recruiting? Well, when he didn't pay for his players, he has been pretty so so. Coaching? When he did pay for players he didn't do any better than current Ole Miss with Kiffin besides 2 Bama wins. I would argue the current Ole Miss product is better than with Hugh but is doing it with classes that are in the 20's nationally. 

Look at Liberty currently. Jamey Chadwell is 11-0 in year 1. Hugh Freeze got housed and I mean HOUSED, his final 4 games at Liberty last year. Hugh also lost as a 33 point favorite to La Monroe. He lost 49-14 to NMSU last year as a 24 point favorite. He lost NMSU yesterday 31-10 as a 25.5 point favorite. Those are swings of 59 points and 46.5 points. Btw, Liberty under Chadwell smoked NMSU 33-17 this season.

These last 2 games are what Hugh Freeze is and has always been. He went into Fayetteville as a 3.5 underdog and beat an Arkansas team by over 5 TD's that had a new OC and had just won in The Swamp for the first time ever last week. 7 days later, riding a 3 game SEC win streak, Hugh's team loses by 3 TD's at home as a 25.5 point favorite and was NEVER, EVER in the ballgame!!!! Yesterday was the first loss that Auburn has suffered at home against a "non-major" opponent since 1991. We had won 84 straight games at home against non-major opponents until yesterday.

Chizik pulled it out against Utah State. Gus pulled it out against Jax State. Harsin pulled it out against Georgia State. Hugh never was close to pulling this game out.

This is what Hugh Freeze has ALWAYS been. Win a game you have no business winning and then lose a game you have no business losing. How is that better than a coach like Gus who could beat LSU and Bama but couldn't beat them in Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa or UGA in Athens? Hugh won't recruit better than Chizik or Gus when it's all said and done. We praise Hugh for every 4 and 5 star he signs but constantly dogged Gus's classes in the top 10 with 4 and 5 stars and claimed "he gets the wrong 4 and 5 stars and just goes after stars and not positions of need." 

If Hugh accomplished what our past coaches accomplished, alot of fans would put a statue of the man outside the stadium. I'm sorry but he has NEVER done anything as an OC or HC that tells us he will be better than what Chizik or Gus was but everybody props him up as some coaching savant. He hasn't beaten a team with a winning record this year.

Just be ready for years of riding the wildest rollercoaster known to man because his tenure here will be a rollercoaster. Others have been a rollercoaster as well but they weren't a threat to embarrass the school off the field or get us on a death penalty probation like our current coach. 

But Auburn is as aligned from top to bottom as we've ever been and everybody that matters at Auburn ALL got their coach!!! Or did we just get a coach we knew would be cheap and wouldn't turn us down and we knew we had the leverage over because of his past? Then the Auburn big wigs simply spin it as "we are all aligned" trying to get the entire fanbase onboard with a checkered coach. War Eagle

 

i HATE for people to tell me how to think and what to say. it is an opinion board. you do you and let us do usif we might tend to disagree. i do not mean this mean for the record.

[Mikey 16,781]

21 minutes ago, 1716AU said:

Jimmy Rane

There is the beginning and ending of the issue

Rane had zero to do with the Harsin hire. Zero. The university president and the athletic director are personally responsible for that. Rane did have a great deal to do with hiring Freeze and Freeze was one of the better candidates available at the time. I personally choose to be optimistic about where we'll end up with Freeze at the helm but we've got to give it some time. One bad loss in the first year is no indicator of future results.

[Hank2020 3,420]

2 hours ago, Old fan 47 said:

Yes. Like I have said, recruit all the four and five star kids you want, but they have to be coached well and developed. HF has put his own tail on the line by stressing how he prefers signing and developing high school players. He will get his chance with what could be a strong class if we don’t lose anybody else. If he fails then, ALL blame is on him. 

If he does well in recruiting (getting enough 4 and 5 stars which I guess would mean in top 10 in recruiting), and then he fails (which I assume is not enough wins to be considered successful), who else coukd you blame?

[Old fan 47 825]

2 hours ago, Hank2020 said:

If he does well in recruiting (getting enough 4 and 5 stars which I guess would mean in top 10 in recruiting), and then he fails (which I assume is not enough wins to be considered successful), who else coukd you blame?

That’s my point. He has side stepped most of the blame for poor play this year and is quick to accept the accolades for the nicer wins. If he gets his wish and hauls in a top tier class and fails, that rests on him. He’s the developer. 

[creed 1,821]

8 minutes ago, Old fan 47 said:

That’s my point. He has side stepped most of the blame for poor play this year and is quick to accept the accolades for the nicer wins. If he gets his wish and hauls in a top tier class and fails, that rests on him. He’s the developer. 

You must be listening to a different radio/tv broadcast and reading different articles than me.

[CCTAU 3,656]

8 hours ago, Old fan 47 said:

Yes. Like I have said, recruit all the four and five star kids you want, but they have to be coached well and developed. HF has put his own tail on the line by stressing how he prefers signing and developing high school players. He will get his chance with what could be a strong class if we don’t lose anybody else. If he fails then, ALL blame is on him. 

Isn’t that true of EVERY head coach?

I’m glad you are pointing it out. Apparently no one else has mentioned it…

[Old fan 47 825]

12 minutes ago, CCTAU said:

Isn’t that true of EVERY head coach?

I’m glad you are pointing it out. Apparently no one else has mentioned it…

Guess we will see. The big problem with building recruits from HS now is the portal, which means they can bolt easier than when College Football was more fun and less like the NFL. If you’re being sarcastic, good for you.