Liberal Democracies Need to Address the Migrant Issue

[icanthearyou 4,468]

21 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I think sometimes you mean well. But regardless, I agree, don’t converse with liars.

It is not about "meaning well".  It is about being honest.  If we are not honest about who we are, about our foreign policy, we cannot improve.  We are the most powerful country in the history of the world.  We can do better.  We should do better.

[auburnatl1 6,307]

19 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

It is not about "meaning well".  It is about being honest.  If we are not honest about who we are, about our foreign policy, we cannot improve.  We are the most powerful country in the history of the world.  We can do better.  We should do better.

Yes. Progressives at their best  are the conscious of the country (religion has its place too). But why are we the most powerful country? Geography, heritage, luck? Or maybe those nasty capitalists helped build it. Btw progressives at their worst is when they profess to want help the common man (even if they don’t want help), but spend 80% of their time resenting and belittling them. Kind of a paradox.

 

[Mikey 16,781]

12 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We have an immigration problem.  We can all agree on that.  Calling them Biden's batch of illegals is just propaganda without a solution.

According to a FOX news clip I saw today, illegal immigration is up 348% during Biden's term vs. when Trump was in office. So yes, they are Biden's Batch.

[DKW 86 7,947]

7 hours ago, Mikey said:

According to a FOX news clip I saw today, illegal immigration is up 348% during Biden's term vs. when Trump was in office. So yes, they are Biden's Batch.

And you watch Fox for????

[DKW 86 7,947]

8 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Yeah, that's what I said.

If you want to converse with me,,, you cannot do this in the future.  It's disingenuous, BS, lying.

If you want to pretend we go around the world spreading freedom and democracy,, fine.  However, an honest appraisal of history says otherwise.

We protect the interests of American capital.

We have good intentions, and as you say, the worst of execution. We have screwed up the ME for decades now. They hate us more than ever now AND we wasted $4-6TN doing it.

[DKW 86 7,947]

On 9/18/2023 at 11:57 AM, TexasTiger said:

We don’t have open borders. If y’all didn’t lie all the time for political points, it would be easier to fix in this country. But you don’t really want a fix. 

What exactly, EXACTLY, do you call the mess at the border then?

 

[Mikey 16,781]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

And you watch Fox for????

Information that the other news outlets refuse to mention. For example, there were over 9,500 encounters documented by the Border Patrol at Eagle Pass, Texas Wednesday. That does not include numerous "got a ways".

In spite of Democrat's claims that the immigration laws are at fault, illegal immigration is up 348% over what it was during the previous administration. The laws aren't at fault, failure to enforce the laws are the problem and that's on Biden.

What news outlet do you watch that mentioned these things?

[TexasTiger 14,527]

39 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

What exactly, EXACTLY, do you call the mess at the border then?

 

It’s a problem. But if you’re constantly apprehending folks and have border patrol agents looking for them and stop folks at all official entry points for valid documentation, you don’t have open borders

[auburnatl1 6,307]

29 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

It’s a problem. But if you’re constantly apprehending folks and have border patrol agents looking for them and stop folks at all official entry points for valid documentation, you don’t have open borders

If they’re not open, they’re a mild inconvenience at best. Imo a total failure of resolve, strategy, execution, and leadership. How can a total nut case like trump still be in play? Because of stuff like this.

Edited September 22, 2023 by auburnatl1

[TexasTiger 14,527]

5 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

If they’re not open, they’re a mild inconvenience at best. Imo a total failure of resolve, strategy, execution, and leadership. How can a total nut case like trump still be in play? Because of stuff like this.

You travel internationally, don’t you?

[auburnatl1 6,307]

3 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You travel internationally, don’t you?

3.5m delta frequent flyer miles. Most international. It’s not a good thing.

[TexasTiger 14,527]

5 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

3.5m delta frequent flyer miles. Most international. It’s not a good thing.

When you return, have they closed down passport control in those airports? Staff the posts, but waive folks through regardless of passport or visa status?

[auburnatl1 6,307]

3 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

When you return, have they closed down passport control in those airports? Staff the posts, but waive folks through regardless of passport or visa status?

Never in the us or any 1st world country. Central and northern South  America, and middle Africa - sometimes. Why?

[TexasTiger 14,527]

2 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Never in the us or any 1st world country. Central and northern South  America, and middle Africa - sometimes. Why?

So which of those countries can be credibly said to have “open borders”?

[auburnatl1 6,307]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

So which of those countries can be credibly said to have “open borders”?

Ah. The issue and the irony is that airports and major highways (ie Tijuana) are rigorously monitored. It’s everywhere else that border integrity has become a hobby. Again, the scale of what’s happening today in the southwest is unprecedented and a tragedy. And honestly Tex - it’s gonna be waste of your time to try to defend Biden on this one.

[TexasTiger 14,527]

3 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Ah. The issue and the irony is that airports and major highways (ie Tijuana) are rigorously monitored. It’s everywhere else that border integrity has become a hobby. Again, the scale of what’s happening today in the southwest is unprecedented and a tragedy. And honestly Tex - it’s gonna be waste of your time to try to defend Biden on this one.

Not what I’m doing. I’ve said it’s a problem. To solve a problem requires proper definition. You won’t solve any problem without accurately defining it. Screaming “open borders!” Is a visceral response. It’s also a gross exaggeration. You readily see those when they happen on the left, but are conditioned to accept some exaggerations from the right. We have big borders that are challenging to monitor and it can be credibly said our enforcement is inadequate. But most folks complaining about this conflate two issues without seemingly recognizing it. Our asylum policy attracts too many people. It’s too broad. Too vague. Until we address this we’ll continue to be a magnet to folks coming openly and hoping to get in permanently and being allowed to stay while that overwhelmed process grinds slowly. The policy needs changing and few Republicans say that. They scream “open borders!” And folks parrot it.

[DKW 86 7,947]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

It’s a problem. But if you’re constantly apprehending folks and have border patrol agents looking for them and stop folks at all official entry points for valid documentation, you don’t have open borders

And then you do what with them??? THAT is the issue.

Edited September 22, 2023 by DKW 86

[auburnatl1 6,307]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Not what I’m doing. I’ve said it’s a problem. To solve a problem requires proper definition. You won’t solve any problem without accurately defining it. Screaming “open borders!” Is a visceral response. It’s also a gross exaggeration. You readily see those when they happen on the left, but are conditioned to accept some exaggerations from the right. We have big borders that are challenging to monitor and it can be credibly said our enforcement is inadequate. But most folks complaining about this conflate two issues without seemingly recognizing it. Our asylum policy attracts too many people. It’s too broad. Too vague. Until we address this we’ll continue to be a magnet to folks coming openly and hoping to get in permanently and being allowed to stay while that overwhelmed process grinds slowly. The policy needs changing and few Republicans say that. They scream “open borders!” And folks parrot it.

I agree that’s there’s blame to go around. My issue with Biden and Kamala is their chronic lack of attention and leadership. Which has created an opening for the maga guys to go nuts - even though they probably couldn’t tell you where the hell the border actually is. I agree that the sanctuary concept creates a confusing euphoric message to illegals, I also think some sort of practical physical barrier is warranted (canyon country is problematic), and finally we have to increase the consequences for employers who utilize them.

And yes - as the border is being secured, immigration reform is requisite. Biden needs to show leadership and bully the maga guys into putting them on the defensive to make it happen. His perceived oblivious negligence is killing him.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

We have good intentions,

No.  We do not. 

[auburnatl1 6,307]

36 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

No.  We do not. 

Why do you live in this country? Seriously. You make fun of Alabama which is one of the poorest states (and progressives profess to want to help the poor right? So they should love you) and yet it votes the exact opposite of progressivism. And when it does your come back to the rejection is … well they’re poor and stupid. Capitalism is bad (which kinda built the country and its citizens to unprecedented prosperity ), our foreign policy is universally selfish and malicious (though everyone wants to move here), religion is for the stupid (though most of the illegal immigrants are devoutly catholic), greed drives our culture (though per capital we are one the most philanthropic people in the world). It’s endless.

I don’t know how all the contradictions don’t cause your head to explode. Again, I do think your “we can do better” and it’s not equitable enough messaging is very fair, and that the US is anything but lily white. But dear lord everything you say about this country is with complete contempt and without recognition of progress. Again, why do you live here?

Edited September 22, 2023 by auburnatl1

[I_M4_AU 9,067]

39 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

And yes - as the border is being secured, immigration reform is requisite. Biden needs to show leadership and bully the maga guys into putting them on the defensive to make it happen. His perceived oblivious negligence is killing him

This little bit of pandering isn’t going to help.

 

Biden is doing exactly what he wants at the border and has since he took office.

[auburnatl1 6,307]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This little bit of pandering isn’t going to help.

 

Biden is doing exactly what he wants at the border and has since he took office.

This is not a defense of Biden but I don’t think he knows what day it is anymore, much the less about any policy. He was historically a moderate. But at the democratic convention he struck a deal with Bernie on extensive cabinet positions and his admin is loaded with ultra progressives. Imo They’re driving most policies and he’s just reading what they write.

[I_M4_AU 9,067]

15 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

This is not a defense of Biden but I don’t think he knows what day it is anymore, much the less about any policy. He was historically a moderate. But at the democratic convention he struck a deal with Bernie on extensive cabinet positions and his admin is loaded with ultra progressives. Imo They’re driving most policies and he’s just reading what they write.

This is a defense of Biden or at least his administration.  He is doing nothing to stem the flow of immigrants and, in fact, it encouraging the stream of illegals.  He is no longer a moderate and a lot of people can’t see that.

I agree he has no idea what he is doing and is just reading the teleprompter and not very well, I may add.

If he felt there was a problem he would have declared an *emergency* a long time ago.  He is very fond of declaring an *emergency* and the next one will be the *climate crisis*.  This is planned, just realize it.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

31 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Why do you live in this country? Seriously. You make fun of Alabama which is one of the poorest states (and progressives profess to want to help the poor right? So they should love you) and yet it votes the exact opposite of progressivism. And when it does your come back to the rejection is … well they’re poor and stupid. Capitalism is bad (which kinda built the country and its citizens to unprecedented prosperity ), our foreign policy is universally selfish and malicious (though everyone wants to move here), religion is for the stupid (though most of the illegal immigrants are devoutly catholic), greed drives our culture (though per capital we are one the most philanthropic people in the world). It’s endless.

I don’t know how all the contradictions don’t cause your head to explode. Again, I do think your “we can do better” and it’s not equitable enough messaging is very fair, and that the US is anything but lily white. But dear lord everything you say about this country is with complete contempt and without recognition of progress. Again, why do you live here?

Because I believe the majority of people in this country still hold the values that are what have/can make us a positive force.

However, the government has been sold to the capital class.  Their goals are purely inhumane.  Their only concern is money/power/control.

Real patriotism is not stupid.  Real patriotism is honest and, often critical.

Not to mention, your perception is part of conditioning.  We have been trained to never question the system of capitalism.  This is how you get to the point of worshiping the capitalist and, demanding that capitalism be completely free of any oversight or, regulation.  This is how you get to the point at which capital owns the government.

At the moment, capitalism does NOT represent progress.  It is actually regressive and inhumane.  If that does not change, we will see major social/political/economic disruption, you will see more authoritarianism.  One party is already there.

Do not be afraid of critical analysis.  Be afraid of a dishonest appraisal of where we are, who we are and, how we got here.

 

[TexasTiger 14,527]

31 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

This is not a defense of Biden but I don’t think he knows what day it is anymore, much the less about any policy. He was historically a moderate. But at the democratic convention he struck a deal with Bernie on extensive cabinet positions and his admin is loaded with ultra progressives. Imo They’re driving most policies and he’s just reading what they write.

I don’t think Bernie’s big issue is immigration. I think Biden’s misjudged the views of Latino’s as a collective by listening to activists. He needs fewer young Ivy League advisors and more folks from state schools that win have worked on winning campaigns in purple/red areas.