Military to Allow Calculators in Entrance Exam

[arein0 1,110]

34 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Man, obviously too many video games for you huh? IRL, you must ascertain whether the info is valid. Whether the trajectories are true. Who shot first? What did they actually shoot? 

Meet Stanislav Petrov, they guy that didn't believe the equipment and may have stopped a nuclear exchange. You need competent, critical thinkers in charge. 

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2017-10/news-briefs/man-saved-world-dies-77#:~:text=Stanislav Petrov%2C a little-known,Petrov was on duty Sept.

That's why you have a confirmation button put in place. Don't want your SAMS firing at flocks of birds.

Point is, I'd rather depend on the person in charge confirming it is a threat vs having to do the calculations as well as validation in that short time frame. 

[DKW 86 7,947]

2 minutes ago, arein0 said:

That's why you have a confirmation button put in place. Don't want your SAMS firing at flocks of birds.

Point is, I'd rather depend on the person in charge confirming it is a threat vs having to do the calculations as well as validation in that short time frame. 

So we agree then, i guess.

[arein0 1,110]

Just now, DKW 86 said:

So we agree then, i guess.

How so?

You said you wanted your person in command to be able to do the calculations on the fly in their head, not probable.

The last thing I want my person in command or any human to do in that short time frame is coming up with calculations, whether in their head, on paper or calculator.

[DKW 86 7,947]

Just now, arein0 said:

How so?

You said you wanted your person in command to be able to do the calculations on the fly in their head, not probable.

The last thing I want my person in command or any human to do in that short time frame is coming up with calculations, whether in their head, on paper or calculator.

LOL...No. The thinking commander would have the horizon calculation in his head and would understand that he had let's say 12 seconds to make the decision. He would not be wasting his time and his people's safety looking for batteries. Because he would already know the basics of engagement. You wont be able to teach that to the calculator or die folks. When the missiles hit, they will probably blame the calculator anyway...

[arein0 1,110]

3 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

LOL...No. The thinking commander would have the horizon calculation in his head and would understand that he had let's say 12 seconds to make the decision. He would not be wasting his time and his people's safety looking for batteries. Because he would already know the basics of engagement. You wont be able to teach that to the calculator or die folks. When the missiles hit, they will probably blame the calculator anyway...

Yup, the most expensive military on the planet has 0 technology capable of making and displaying this calculation, other than a basic calculator. The safety of the troops depends on complex calculations done via their commanders head, a calculator, or pencil and paper. 

This whole calculator conversation is incredibly dumb. The point of math is to practice solving problems, learning how to approach problems through different approaches, and using the tools available. Calculating 16^2 in your head is not math, that's memorization. You can give someone a calculator all day long, but if they don't know how to approach a given problem, the calculator is irrelevant. 

[AUloggerhead 2,566]

Here is information on the ASVAB test:  Link

The test will help determine eligibility for appropriate military jobs.  The test is timed and up to 55 questions relate to mathematics.  Even with a calculator helping with simple arithmetic, if one takes too long on a question they risk not completing the exam in time.  The decline in enlistment is driving this decision.  Interestingly enough, applicants that score well in the mathematics portion would be steered toward artillery/air defense type jobs so, all this talk about figuring out how to shoot down an incoming missile in time is, well ... a little hysterical.  That's not to say that basic numeracy in the population is not needed.  It still is, and the decline in  mathematics test scores within the US is certainly disconcerting.    

[Didba 5,550]

On 8/22/2023 at 4:23 PM, arein0 said:

This is a very cold take. Typically when you stop practicing a skill, your skill deteriorates. Also, many American's self driving skills aren't great to begin with.

Yeah, i can personally attest

[Didba 5,550]

On 8/22/2023 at 4:31 PM, LPTiger said:

Tell me about....   My AU sophomore daughter had a fender bender at AU yesterday.    No one hurt.    About $2,500 damage to each car is my guess.   She gave it a full 24 hours and called me an hour ago to see if it was okay for her and some friends to fly out to the Cali game....

Alex Shunnarah creeps in the background waiting for his moment to commit barratry

 

[Didba 5,550]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:40 PM, aubiefifty said:

wow we have a lot of pilots on here.jj is one. anyone know who all the fact of getting in a metal tube and screaming through the sky is not my most pleasant thought. i do admire the art and the skill. i loved the top guns and the movie midway had some great air stuff. weird that scares me but i would ride a sportster right now if i had one. i hate i let mine go.

I am starting my pilot's license soon with my supervising attorney's Cessna lol

[Didba 5,550]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:31 PM, homersapien said:

Calculators offer zero advantage in a well designed examination.  The point of such questions is to present the logic of the math, not to do the math with a pencil and paper.

A calculator is useless unless you know the proper inputs and their relationship.  It's the latter that is being asked.

this

[DKW 86 7,947]

13 hours ago, AUloggerhead said:

Here is information on the ASVAB test:  Link

The test will help determine eligibility for appropriate military jobs.  The test is timed and up to 55 questions relate to mathematics.  Even with a calculator helping with simple arithmetic, if one takes too long on a question they risk not completing the exam in time.  The decline in enlistment is driving this decision.  Interestingly enough, applicants that score well in the mathematics portion would be steered toward artillery/air defense type jobs so, all this talk about figuring out how to shoot down an incoming missile in time is, well ... a little hysterical.  That's not to say that basic numeracy in the population is not needed.  It still is, and the decline in  mathematics test scores within the US is certainly disconcerting.    

So, Mess Cranks can now be missile techs...great...

[I_M4_AU 9,058]

7 hours ago, Didba said:

I am starting my pilot's license soon with my supervising attorney's Cessna lol

Good for you. 

[homersapien 12,325]

17 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

IOW, Horizon to Impact is about 24 seconds using your calculations. 

The resolution would be 24 seconds minus missile target activation. My point is that the dumbass with the calculator doesn't have time to do the calculation AND order the shoot since his batteries are dead.

No one is "smart" enough to "do the calculation" regardless of their experience with a calculator.

(See my earlier posts in this thread for example) Any human is prone to making errors if they have to do such calculations before firing a missile (for example).  Hell, even modern cannons have "fire control" systems.  All such calculations are now automated.

So, the scenario you present is not realistic.  I suspect that the only decision the missile battery commander can make is to cancel or abort the (automatic) firing command, based on information the computer may not have.

If you want to argue the use of calculators is going to degrade the average competency of new recruits, fine, make that argument. (Which is wrong.) 

But don't argue that it's going to have a practical effect when it comes to operating weapons systems.  That's just silly.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 12,325]

7 hours ago, Didba said:

I am starting my pilot's license soon with my supervising attorney's Cessna lol

Presumably, that's not a Cessna Citation.