Military to Allow Calculators in Entrance Exam

[Son of A Tiger 649]

As a vet I find this mind boggling. Seems to me to just be another step in reducing the capability of our military. Just confirms my negative opinion of SECDEF Lloyd Austin, former member of the Auburn BOT.

Military considers allowing calculators on entrance exam amid continued recruiting struggles: report | Fox News

[Didba 5,550]

34 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

As a vet I find this mind boggling. Seems to me to just be another step in reducing the capability of our military. Just confirms my negative opinion of SECDEF Lloyd Austin, former member of the Auburn BOT.

Military considers allowing calculators on entrance exam amid continued recruiting struggles: report | Fox News

Why is it mind boggling?

Could you explain how it reduces the capability of our military? 

Could you explain why mental math acuity is a perquisite to having a capable military?

[I_M4_AU 9,058]

24 minutes ago, Didba said:

Could you explain why mental math acuity is a perquisite to having a capable military?

Are you serious?

[Didba 5,550]

9 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Are you serious?

I know a plethora of reasons, I want to hear his reasons and opinions. 

When I ask an open ended question like that it’s not because I don’t know the answers. It’s just a way to get people talking/discussing instead of throwing insults. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Didba

[Didba 5,550]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Are you serious?

But to answer your question, yes I want him to explain. But also, no, I don’t really need an explanation. 

[Son of A Tiger 649]

3 hours ago, Didba said:

Why is it mind boggling?

Could you explain how it reduces the capability of our military? 

Could you explain why mental math acuity is a perquisite to having a capable military?

If you are serious i don't know where to begin. I can only assume you have never been on active duty or in simulated war games. If you are on the ground in front lines, in a jet fighter. or onboard a ship during operations you would know the answers to your questions. In simple terms, you often have to make quick decisions without benefit of a calculator.  And what kind of calculator are we even talking about. You don't always have access to one. 

I would ask you in turn:

How do you feel about students using a calculator (maybe their I-phone) during routine tests or final exams? Or how about using their phone calculator as they take the SATS, ACTs, etc., on college entrance exams?

Bottomline, I don't want to be in a wartime situation with some dumbass who can't quickly perform simple math required for critical decisions. I would really welcome the opinions of others here.

 

[TexasTiger 14,527]

32 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

If you are serious i don't know where to begin. I can only assume you have never been on active duty or in simulated war games. If you are on the ground in front lines, in a jet fighter. or onboard a ship during operations you would know the answers to your questions. In simple terms, you often have to make quick decisions without benefit of a calculator.  And what kind of calculator are we even talking about. You don't always have access to one. 

I would ask you in turn:

How do you feel about students using a calculator (maybe their I-phone) during routine tests or final exams? Or how about using their phone calculator as they take the SATS, ACTs, etc., on college entrance exams?

Bottomline, I don't want to be in a wartime situation with some dumbass who can't quickly perform simple math required for critical decisions. I would really welcome the opinions of others here.

 

Let’s ask the College Board what they think:

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/what-to-bring-do/calculator-policy
 

Times change. Reducing human error can also be critical in a crisis.

[Son of A Tiger 649]

5 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Let’s ask the College Board what they think:

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/what-to-bring-do/calculator-policy
 

Times change. Reducing human error can also be critical in a crisis.

I need more than a calculator to figure out what that says😀

And I'm interested in what Dubya's response since he asked me questions.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Son of A Tiger

[arein0 1,110]

3 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

I need more than a calculator to figure out what that says😀

It says you can bring basically any graphing calculator that doesn't have built in wifi or bluetooth. 

Some calculators are programmable and if students know how will be able to program their calculator with formulas they will need.

[Didba 5,550]

4 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

If you are serious i don't know where to begin. I can only assume you have never been on active duty or in simulated war games. If you are on the ground in front lines, in a jet fighter. or onboard a ship during operations you would know the answers to your questions. In simple terms, you often have to make quick decisions without benefit of a calculator.  And what kind of calculator are we even talking about. You don't always have access to one. 

I would ask you in turn:

How do you feel about students using a calculator (maybe their I-phone) during routine tests or final exams? Or how about using their phone calculator as they take the SATS, ACTs, etc., on college entrance exams?

Bottomline, I don't want to be in a wartime situation with some dumbass who can't quickly perform simple math required for critical decisions. I would really welcome the opinions of others here.

 

This answered my question perfectly. Thanks. I agree whole hardheartedly.

I mean I suck at math, I am a lawyer, however, I feel like if I had to sharpen up those basic mental maths for a wartime situation, I could. Very fair all around.

[DKW 86 7,947]

12 hours ago, Didba said:

Why is it mind boggling?

Could you explain how it reduces the capability of our military? 

Could you explain why mental math acuity is a perquisite to having a capable military?

 

12 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Are you serious?

I am afraid he is 100% serious.

"LT, we have three missile inbound at 1200 mph, 8 miles from us now. When should we fire the SAMs?"

"Damn, anybody got any batteries for my calculator?"

Boom!

[Didba 5,550]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

 

I am afraid he is 100% serious.

"LT, we have three missile inbound at 1200 mph, 8 miles from us now. When should we fire the SAMs?"

"Damn, anybody got any batteries for my calculator?"

Boom!

I was under the impression in today’s military that many things would be automated but I don’t know shiiizzz about the military. 

[AUDub 12,013]

6 minutes ago, Didba said:

I was under the impression in today’s military that many things would be automated but I don’t know shiiizzz about the military. 

In this situation yeah the Patriot system would handle that lol. 

[Son of A Tiger 649]

4 hours ago, AUDub said:

 

 

4 hours ago, AUDub said:

In this situation yeah the Patriot system would handle that lol. 

The Patriot system doesn't have 100% U.S. coverage.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Son of A Tiger

[homersapien 12,325]

8 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

 

I am afraid he is 100% serious.

"LT, we have three missile inbound at 1200 mph, 8 miles from us now. When should we fire the SAMs?"

"Damn, anybody got any batteries for my calculator?"

Boom!

Yeah right. 

Let's see, 8÷(12,000×60)  Anybody got a pencil......BOOM!

You guys are funny.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,969]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Yeah right. 

Let's see, 8÷(12,000×60)  Anybody got a pencil......BOOM!

You guys are funny.

 

Seriously. In that ridiculous, hypothetical scenario I sure as **** hope our military would be using calculators and not relying on Sgt. Sweatyfoots mental math capabilities. 

[I_M4_AU 9,058]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Seriously. In that ridiculous, hypothetical scenario I sure as **** hope our military would be using calculators and not relying on Sgt. Sweatyfoots mental math capabilities. 

Do you not know they have charts to look this stuff up?  If the speed of the missile is known, which they all are, as soon as it’s detected they can inform anyone that needs to know when it will arrive.  That isn’t what the logic of mental gymnastics is all about.  It’s all about procedures that you know and can count on to do the right thing without thinking.

The thinking part is when things don’t fit into the normal realm of things.  You have to have a deep understanding of your duties and the reason  how the procedure was written to amend the procedure for the best.

Every wonder why it is preferred to have a smart QB on a football team?

[CoffeeTiger 5,969]

32 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Do you not know they have charts to look this stuff up?  If the speed of the missile is known, which they all are, as soon as it’s detected they can inform anyone that needs to know when it will arrive.  That isn’t what the logic of mental gymnastics is all about.  It’s all about procedures that you know and can count on to do the right thing without thinking.

The thinking part is when things don’t fit into the normal realm of things.  You have to have a deep understanding of your duties and the reason  how the procedure was written to amend the procedure for the best.

Every wonder why it is preferred to have a smart QB on a football team?

Yes, and I'm sure the people in charge of those situations receive a lot more training and education for those situations.

I don't buy the argument that allowing calculators in the ASVAB means we're suddenly going to be putting idiots who cant do basic math into critical positions that require it. 

[I_M4_AU 9,058]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Yes, and I'm sure the people in charge of those situations receive a lot more training and education for those situations.

I don't buy the argument that allowing calculators in the ASVAB means we're suddenly going to be putting idiots who cant do basic math into critical positions that require it. 

I will predict, and we see it now, that American’s self driving skills will diminish in a few years as self driving cars appear.  The reliance on automation weakens the mind.  That reliance on automation allows the operator to focus on other things that should be more important, but the human brain can get complacent in a heartbeat.

[LPTiger 5,533]

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I will predict, and we see it now, that American’s self driving skills will diminish in a few years as self driving cars appear.  The reliance on automation weakens the mind.  That reliance on automation allows the operator to focus on other things that should be more important, but the human brain can get complacent in a heartbeat.

This is like reading about a bunco group trying to tell CHF why offensive plays to call.

[I_M4_AU 9,058]

1 minute ago, LPTiger said:

This is like reading about a bunco group trying to tell CHF why offensive plays to call.

Yep, if you’re not in it at the moment, you’re already lost.

[arein0 1,110]

15 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I will predict, and we see it now, that American’s self driving skills will diminish in a few years as self driving cars appear.

This is a very cold take. Typically when you stop practicing a skill, your skill deteriorates. Also, many American's self driving skills aren't great to begin with.

[LPTiger 5,533]

5 minutes ago, arein0 said:

This is a very cold take. Typically when you stop practicing a skill, your skill deteriorates. Also, many American's self driving skills aren't great to begin with.

Tell me about....   My AU sophomore daughter had a fender bender at AU yesterday.    No one hurt.    About $2,500 damage to each car is my guess.   She gave it a full 24 hours and called me an hour ago to see if it was okay for her and some friends to fly out to the Cali game....

[I_M4_AU 9,058]

1 minute ago, arein0 said:

This is a very cold take. Typically when you stop practicing a skill, your skill deteriorates. Also, many American's self driving skills aren't great to begin with.

Well, they’re going to get worse.  And that’s the point.  I’m old school; I taught my kids (all 3 boys) on a stick shift.  You have to think more driving a stick than and an automatic, I hope it ingrained in them a sense of driving how the road demands and not just gas and break.

I also spent 34 years as a pilot and saw first hand how flying manually is diminished by automation.  There is a trade off as when the *sh!t hits the fan* automation can free up the mind to tend to essentials duties, you just have to know when to switch to the automation and how to manage that automation.  So you have to be have the same confidence in your ability whether in automation or manually manipulating the controls.

[arein0 1,110]

2 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

Tell me about....   My AU sophomore daughter had a fender bender at AU yesterday.    No one hurt.    About $2,500 damage to each car is my guess.   She gave it a full 24 hours and called me an hour ago to see if it was okay for her and some friends to fly out to the Cali game....

Oof glad no one was hurt.