Women's Soccer Team at it Again

[TexasTiger 14,526]

17 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

The entire point of freedom of speech being of such monumental importance to who we are as a nation that it's the First Amendment is that it grants people the right to say things we don't like, things some find offensive, to criticize and protest our own government.  If kneeling, not singing, not putting a hand over one's heart and so on during the national anthem bothers you, that's fine.  But this is the United States of America functioning as intended.  Every signatory to the Declaration of Independence and framer of our Constitution wanted exactly these kinds of freedoms to be in place for everyone.

If you want to make the case that you should be heard and allowed to state your beliefs in the public arena without fear of being cancelled, attacked, shut down, or arrested, you cannot turn around and get bent when people use that same freedom to make statements you don't agree with.  You undermine your own argument when you do so.  

Totally agree. But When I see the teams' response to the flag/anthem I’m struck by a sense of indifference more than protest. I’m not sure they’re protesting anything. Rappinoe was clear in what she was doing and explained why. These folks just look bored.

[I_M4_AU 9,054]

3 hours ago, arein0 said:

I guess it is a good thing we don't have to worry about that as we don't have any "rent-a-players," one of the few teams with all players born in the country they represent. As for the enthused part, that is evident by their play / effort on the field.

You may be missing the point of the World Cup and FIFAs restrictions about who can play four a *National* Team.

In simple terms, according to FIFA rules, you may play for:

the country you were born in; or

if your grandparent was born in a given country, you are eligible to play for that country; or

if you are married to a citizen of another country, you may play for that country; or

if you are a naturalized citizen (live and work) in a country, you may play for that country.*

https://www.discoversoccer.info/general/how-to-play-for-a-national-soccer-team

The professional leagues do have *rent-a-players*, but by rule the World Cup discourages this type of behavior.

Their enthusiasm they generate appears to be all about the individual and not about being a national team by their reluctance to show enthusiasm for the nations that they represent.

They can do what they want and people in the nation they represent can interpret their actions the way they want, right?

[TexasTiger 14,526]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

You may be missing the point of the World Cup and FIFAs restrictions about who can play four a *National* Team.

In simple terms, according to FIFA rules, you may play for:

the country you were born in; or

if your grandparent was born in a given country, you are eligible to play for that country; or

if you are married to a citizen of another country, you may play for that country; or

if you are a naturalized citizen (live and work) in a country, you may play for that country.*

https://www.discoversoccer.info/general/how-to-play-for-a-national-soccer-team

The professional leagues do have *rent-a-players*, but by rule the World Cup discourages this type of behavior.

Their enthusiasm they generate appears to be all about the individual and not about being a national team by their reluctance to show enthusiasm for the nations that they represent.

They can do what they want and people in the nation they represent can interpret their actions the way they want, right?

I think he's referring to the Americans that played for Mexico a year or two ago and were indifferent/disrespectful to the country. They fit those requirements.

[arein0 1,110]

38 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You’re missing my point. They clearly want to win.

I got your point. Just wanted to go with the more literal response. For the example of teams with rent-a-player, look at the Philippines. 18 of the 23 on the roster were born in the US. I know New Zealand and Haiti have a couple Americans.

[TexasTiger 14,526]

6 minutes ago, arein0 said:

I got your point. Just wanted to go with the more literal response. For the example of teams with rent-a-player, look at the Philippines. 18 of the 23 on the roster were born in the US. I know New Zealand and Haiti have a couple Americans.

I didn't make the rent-a-player point. I explained it. Read again.

[AUDub 12,013]

7 minutes ago, arein0 said:

I got your point. Just wanted to go with the more literal response. For the example of teams with rent-a-player, look at the Philippines. 18 of the 23 on the roster were born in the US. I know New Zealand and Haiti have a couple Americans.

That's not how it works. They are not rent-a-players. They are permanently tied to their federation after their first senior appearance. 

You're a soccer fan and know how dual nats are a thing. Hell, we have tons on our men's roster. Balogun, Musah, Dest, Pepi, hell even Puli. Would we consider them "rent-a-players?"

It's exacerbated on the women's side because until very recently we were the only country with a proper developmental path for women's soccer players. 

[arein0 1,110]

25 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

I didn't make the rent-a-player point. I explained it. Read again.

I got your point, I was explaining mine.

[TexasTiger 14,526]

4 minutes ago, arein0 said:

I got your point, I was explaining mine.

It’s not clear that you did.

[arein0 1,110]

15 minutes ago, AUDub said:

That's not how it works. They are not rent-a-players. They are permanently tied to their federation after their first senior appearance. 

You're a soccer fan and know how dual nats are a thing. Hell, we have tons on our men's roster. Balogun, Musah, Dest, Pepi, hell even Puli. Would we consider them "rent-a-players?"

It's exacerbated on the women's side because until very recently we were the only country with a proper developmental path for women's soccer players. 

I understand that they are permanently tied after their first appearance. I personally consider a "rent a player" as someone that is playing on a national team without being a citizen of that nation. For the USMNT examples you provided, the only one I'm unsure of is Dest since the rest mentioned were born in the US, granting them citizenship.

[AUDub 12,013]

13 minutes ago, arein0 said:

I understand that they are permanently tied after their first appearance. I personally consider a "rent a player" as someone that is playing on a national team without being a citizen of that nation. For the USMNT examples you provided, the only one I'm unsure of is Dest since the rest mentioned were born in the US, granting them citizenship.

The US is unique because of its nature as a cultural hub - a LOT of those players, like Weah, Musah and Balogun were born in New York and not necessarily raised there, and let's not even discuss the Chicanos -  and our military bases around the world. We still have an effective development system that is improving, but the majority of these players developed overseas in the youth systems of squads in Europe and had a choice due to familial ties overseas.

It goes both ways. Rossi and David Ochoa were both born here but because they identity more closely with their cultural heritages they chose to represent Italy and Mexico, respectively. 

We are the great melting pot, after all. 

[arein0 1,110]

4 minutes ago, AUDub said:

The US is unique because of its nature as a cultural hub - a LOT of those players, like Weah, Musah and Balogun were born in New York and not necessarily raised there, and let's not even discuss the Chicanos -  and our military bases around the world. We still have an effective development system that is improving, but the majority of these players developed overseas in the youth systems of squads in Europe and had a choice due to familial ties overseas.

It goes both ways. Rossi and David Ochoa were both born here but because they identity more closely with their cultural heritages they chose to represent Italy and Mexico, respectively. 

We are the great melting pot, after all. 

I understand all of that and agree with the why the rules are in place. But they can be abused and this isn't the first Filipino team that is filled with players born from the top nation in that sport.

Again this is my personal definition of a rent a player. 

[AUDub 12,013]

1 hour ago, arein0 said:

I understand all of that and agree with the why the rules are in place. But they can be abused and this isn't the first Filipino team that is filled with players born from the top nation in that sport.

Again this is my personal definition of a rent a player. 

Look at any women's soccer team from a nation with a nascent or underdeveloped program and the story will be similar. Look at Jamaica for instance. 

Keepers

Sydney Schneider - USA

Rebecca Spencer - England 

Liya Brooks - USA

Backs

Vyan Sampson - England 

Chantelle Swaby - USA

Konya Plummer - Jamaica

Deneisha Blackwood - Jamaica

Allyson Swaby - USA

Tiernny Wiltshire - USA

Midfield

Solai Washington - USA

Havana Solaun - Hong Kong

Peyton McNamara - USA

Drew Spence - England 

Trudi Carter - Jamaica 

Atlanta Primus - England

Forwards

Kameron Simmonds - USA

Jodi Brown - Jamaica

Khadija Shaw - Jamaica 

Kiki Van Zanten - USA

Tiffany Cameron - Canada

Paige Bailey-Gayle - England 

Cheyna Matthews - USA

Kayla McCoy - USA

They do what all these nations do. They scout their diaspora. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by AUDub

[AUDub 12,013]

Jamaica would be expected to be more England heavy because they are a commonwealth nation and England has a large Jamaican population along with better scouting and development than most. 

The Phillipines are, of course, American heavy because we have a very large population of Filipinos stemming from the Pacific theater in WW2 and what's currently the best scouting and development system in the world due to Title IX.