DeSantis insists students look on the bright side of slavery

[TexasTiger 14,364]

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You cited an article from Tampa Bay Times as reference to Dr. Allen’s *ignorance* and for some reason has disappeared from you post.  It appears there are a lot of inconsistencies in his story and what other historians have presented.

Of course, he corroborated with another scholar on this project and it was sent to the board of education in Florida and was approved.  One does have to wonder if these historians (Allen and his partner) could have vetted their information with others before publishing.

I removed it due to a pay wall. The lack of vetting all around speaks to the motivation. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,914]

56 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I am not defending slavery, so let’s get that straight.  The issue here is how it is being taught and the disagreement in how it is presented.  Don’t believe, like a lot of people, that this curriculum lessens the blot on our history, just that some were resilient and had the ability to overcome such horrors.

The only slaves that were able to *benefit* from skills they learned (or were forced to endure) were the ones at the end of slavery.  Slavery being a horrendous part of history is not debatable.

So you admit that any slaves that gained any real benefit from the "skills" they learned as slaves were an exceptionally small minority of all the slaves that were ever in America....

So why do you defend Florida deciding that this small detail be mandated in its curriculum in schools? Especially when Florida has rejected other standard history curriculums on Slavery because they deemed it "doesn't have historical value" .....but teaching this small detail in standard schooling does? 

It's like teaching that some native people benefited from the "Trail of Tears" because it got them a lot of exercise and they got to see new places and areas of the country the may not have experienced before". 

Or American Japanese interment camps in WW2 allowed some to closely connect with others of Japanese ancestory in a group social setting, and some made lifelong friendships.

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by CoffeeTiger

[AUDub 11,974]

21 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

just that some were resilient and had the ability to overcome such horrors.

The only slaves that were able to *benefit* from skills they learned (or were forced to endure) were the ones at the end of slavery.  Slavery being a horrendous part of history is not debatable.

An enslaved person never benefitted from learning a skill unless they at some point stopped being enslaved, which did not happen in the overwhelming majority of cases. To emphasize the notion that slaves were learning skills, leaving slavery and applying those skills for their own benefit is just going to give children a deeply inaccurate understanding as to what the experience of most enslaved people was like.

Again, it's one of those things that need not be mentioned, like how "lifelong friendships were made" at Birkenau, or Otto Frank came out of the ordeal with a steady source of income. 

[I_M4_AU 8,980]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

So why do you defend Florida deciding that this small detail be mandated in its curriculum in schools? Especially when Florida has rejected other standard history curriculums on Slavery because they deemed it "doesn't have historical value" .....but teaching this small detail in standard schooling does? 

I’m not sure I agree that it must be mandated, I know that’s the wording, but mentioning some slaves were resilient and ambitious enough to excel outside of slavery is an uplifting thought and uplifting thoughts are not a bad thing.  Florida has rejected, from what I understand, CRT which is a theory of some believing slavery was more of a center point of America than is was and black queer studies which doesn’t seem to be relative to history.

I don’t think your analogies are accurate. 

[I_M4_AU 8,980]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

An enslaved person never benefitted from learning a skill unless they at some point stopped being enslaved, which did not happen in the overwhelming majority of cases. To emphasize the notion that slaves were learning skills, leaving slavery and applying those skills for their own benefit is just going to give children a deeply inaccurate understanding as to what the experience of most enslaved people was like.

Again, it's one of those things that need not be mentioned, like how "lifelong friendships were made" at Birkenau, or Otto Frank came out of the ordeal with a steady source of income. 

From what perspective does mentioning this be inaccurate if some slaves excelled after being slaves?  Forget the *benefit* part.  Would it be interesting to know some slaves were intelligent enough to succeed?  I would think, without slavery, America would have been better off because of these individuals that were smothered in their development.

I agree that presenting this as a *benefit* was wrong wording, but the concept could be used as a teaching moment if presented correctly.

[auburnatl1 6,207]

Even if some did somehow pick up a skill or trade that’s not the point. You simply can’t even hint at anything like that right now. Read the friggin room. Whats almost as scary to me is the pure incompetence it displays. Youd almost have to try to do something more stupid.

Edited July 25, 2023 by auburnatl1

[CoffeeTiger 5,914]

Florida has also approved some PragerU videos to be used in classrooms as supplemental material. 

 https://www.thedailybeast.com/right-wing-prageru-says-florida-is-first-state-to-permit-its-curriculum-in-schools

[TexasTiger 14,364]

5 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Florida has also approved some PragerU videos to be used in classrooms as supplemental material. 

 https://www.thedailybeast.com/right-wing-prageru-says-florida-is-first-state-to-permit-its-curriculum-in-schools

Why not Trump U?

[CoffeeTiger 5,914]

[SLAG-91 1,612]

More thoroughly stated than what is in the Florida curriculum, but the big picture idea is the same.

I'll be interested to see how this AP course (new for the 2023-24 school year) goes.

[AUDub 11,974]

1 hour ago, SLAG-91 said:

More thoroughly stated than what is in the Florida curriculum, but the big picture idea is the same.

I'll be interested to see how this AP course (new for the 2023-24 school year) goes.

How is the right on this forum so balls to the wall dense that they're incapable of realizing the "once free" part is the problematic portion?

[aubaseball 2,860]

6 hours ago, AUDub said:

How is the right on this forum so balls to the wall dense that they're incapable of realizing the "once free" part is the problematic portion?

 What’s dense is that slavery happened and there is nothing you or I can do about it.   Curriculum should be taught to show all aspects of it.   If you can’t show how some individuals came out of slavery and became successful, I believe that that person is the problem.   

[SLAG-91 1,612]

5 hours ago, AUDub said:

How is the right on this forum so balls to the wall dense that they're incapable of realizing the "once free" part is the problematic portion?

Take it up with the Florida task force that oversees the African-American History curriculum (all six of whom are black) and, in this particular instance, College Board.

Pointing this out doesn't equal some of the specious "they're saying 'hey, just learning some life skills'" offal that's being thrown out here by some of our resident leftists.

Some AP courses undergo significant rewrites (World History is one), and who knows what this course's CED will have in it down the road.

I would think that any teacher of this particular AP course who is worth their salt will also include that it was an exceedingly rare occurrence for a freed slave to even have a chance to make a decent life, and I figure some of them will do this rather pointedly, as is their prerogative.

As for Florida's courses, benchmark clarification does not equal primary focus. How that'll be presented remains to be seen. Some of the social studies teachers may decide it's not worth the potential controversy and just not get anywhere near it. It's certainly not something that a teacher will spend a lot of time on...you typically don't devote great deals of time to benchmark clarifications. If we've got any Florida social studies teachers on this site, maybe they'll chime in.

 

[aubiefifty 18,314]

anytime you lie about history it becomes fiction. how hard is it to understand?

[I_M4_AU 8,980]

2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

anytime you lie about history it becomes fiction. how hard is it to understand?

Tell me fifty; was America founded in 1619 or 1776?  Cite your source.

[aubiefifty 18,314]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Tell me fifty; was America founded in 1619 or 1776?  Cite your source.

why?

[I_M4_AU 8,980]

2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

why?

I want to know which date you think is a lie.

[aubiefifty 18,314]

26 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I want to know which date you think is a lie.

how many choices do i get again?

[auburnatl1 6,207]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Tell me fifty; was America founded in 1619 or 1776?  Cite your source.

If your point is supposed to be about that perspective matters. Ummm… sure. 

[I_M4_AU 8,980]

1 hour ago, auburnatl1 said:

If your point is supposed to be about that perspective matters. Ummm… sure. 

No, Fifty said: anytime you lie about history it becomes fiction.  I’m just trying to see which date he believes is the truth and which he believes is a lie.

[auburnatl1 6,207]

18 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

No, Fifty said: anytime you lie about history it becomes fiction.  I’m just trying to see which date he believes is the truth and which he believes is a lie.

Ah, I thought you were about to go down a 1619 path. 

[aubiefifty 18,314]

14 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

No, Fifty said: anytime you lie about history it becomes fiction.  I’m just trying to see which date he believes is the truth and which he believes is a lie.

here is some non fiction.............trump is all about the lie. prove me wrong.

[I_M4_AU 8,980]

12 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

here is some non fiction.............trump is all about the lie. prove me wrong.

You have a sickness, seek help.

[TexasTiger 14,364]

@SaltyTiger ain’t just Kamala:

https://themessenger.com/politics/ron-desantis-slams-gop-rival-tim-scott-for-criticism-of-florida-black-history-curriculum

[icanthearyou 4,468]

On 7/27/2023 at 12:35 AM, AUDub said:

How is the right on this forum so balls to the wall dense that they're incapable of realizing the "once free" part is the problematic portion?

Defending this crap is not about intellect.  It is simply a lack of character, humanity, honesty.  Unfortunately,  most will not be able to use stupidity as an excuse.