Tits and Cocaine at the White House

[KansasTiger 3,280]

48 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I simply don't follow every baseless conspiracy fueled nonsensical narrative that gets thrown out there by Fox and their apostles.......  I am very much to the right of center and I don't vote party lines.  I also have a habit of discarding what doesn't matter in favor of what is important.

You're as 'right of center' as Biden is. I mean, since you have done nothing but defend him, every decision his administration has made, and given countless excuses and performed mental gymnastics on several occasions to defend them. I'd have more respect for you if you were honest about it.

Everyone here, including myself, wants to think they're center. Few of us are, except maybe @DKW 86. But i can only think of a handful of posters who have leaned further left then you over the past month. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by KansasTiger

[auburnatl1 6,293]

58 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

Everyone here, including myself, wants to think they're center. 

As a side note, in 2023 if someone can tell what the heck the center is anymore that’d be great (much the less right, less, or on top of it).

Edited July 10, 2023 by auburnatl1

[TexasTiger 14,524]

1 hour ago, KansasTiger said:

You're as 'right of center' as Biden is. I mean, since you have done nothing but defend him, every decision his administration has made, and given countless excuses and performed mental gymnastics on several occasions to defend them. I'd have more respect for you if you were honest about it.

Everyone here, including myself, wants to think they're center. Few of us are, except maybe @DKW 86. But i can only think of a handful of posters who have leaned further left then you over the past month. 

Where are never Trump Republicans who followed Reagan?

BTW, I don’t defend Biden as much as I critique the wild accusations without proof.

[auburnatl1 6,293]

5 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Where are never Trump Republicans who followed Reagan?

BTW, I don’t defend Biden as much as I critique the wild accusations without proof.

Some staffer who might work at the White House, might use coke.  Proof or not, not  sure it makes the top 5 big  problems right now. Maybe top 105.

[KansasTiger 3,280]

1 hour ago, auburnatl1 said:

Some staffer who might work at the White House, might use coke.  Proof or not, not  sure it makes the top 5 big  problems right now. Maybe top 105.

If we want to talk proof, where's the proof it was a staffer and not a more senior member of the administration? What if it was the VP or Biden? Would that make it something we should be concerned about? Most of the people interested just want answers. If it came out, with proof, that it was just some staffer I think this would fade. Instead we've seen attempts to avoid the subject, cover it up, and inconsistent information reported that changes. One side can't demand that lack of proof means it should be dropped when that same lack of proof could point to someone high up being compromised with drugs.

[DKW 86 7,946]

16 hours ago, homersapien said:

I didn't  think so.

No one is looking for a "pee tape".  Just admit it was purely rhetorical.

I ASSURE YOU, there are news orgs looking for that pee tape even now.

[DKW 86 7,946]

15 hours ago, AU9377 said:

If that exists......It most likely doesn't. At most, you can compile a list of everyone that was at that spot. From there, it depends on how interested the Secret Service is in the matter.  They can't charge someone without a lot more evidence than a particular person was one of how ever many.........  Even if there was only one person on tape that placed something into the cubby, there are problems with the chain of evidence and the fact that it wasn't found on their person.   We will just have to wait and see what they conclude.  Regardless of what they conclude, some will act as though there is a conspiracy afoot.  That is par for the course regardless of the issue.

I am guaranteeing you that even if there is video, we will never see it. 
No one will ever be named, nor charged. 
No reason will be given, it will just go away, a la Epstein's death.

[AU9377 6,109]

5 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I am guaranteeing you that even if there is video, we will never see it. 
No one will ever be named, nor charged. 
No reason will be given, it will just go away, a la Epstein's death.

How do you draw a comparison between Epstein and this with a straight face?  I understand that you think both were swept under the rug, but believing that everything is controlled by someone behind a curtain is as dangerous as anything else.  If we would only spend as much time demanding real impactful changes be made as we spend on unimportant nonsense, we might see something positive happen.

[KansasTiger 3,280]

5 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

How do you draw a comparison between Epstein and this with a straight face?  I understand that you think both were swept under the rug, but believing that everything is controlled by someone behind a curtain is as dangerous as anything else.  If we would only spend as much time demanding real impactful changes be made as we spend on unimportant nonsense, we might see something positive happen.

The comparison is because both were obviously covered up. Truth was concealed. He didn't say it was even from the same group of people. He just implied information was being withheld on purpose in both instances so the fervor could die down and be forgotten. And that much is painfully and obviously true. Drawing a naive conclusion that everything is just due to ineptitude and there is no conspiracy is just as dangerous as thinking everything is a conspiracy.

There can be no real impactful change with the current power residing where it does. They won't let it happen. Some people are finally waking up to see that as reality. This fight against the establishment, or deep state, or political elite, whatever you want to call it (it's mostly one in the same) is the impactful change we've needed for decades but are just now realizing.

[homersapien 12,310]

9 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I ASSURE YOU, there are news orgs looking for that pee tape even now.

"News organizations"?   I thought you said Democrats (large D)

Edited July 10, 2023 by homersapien

[AUFAN78 4,162]

19 hours ago, AU9377 said:

You seem to think that their interest is totally dependent on executive branch direction.  That is where we differ.  It is just as feasible that they don't consider this to be some monumental security breach that must be solved.  If they watch the right wing mouth pieces, they will fear that the nation's future is dependent on who did it.... lol

In no way have I suggested such nonsense. Those voices in your head don't allow comprehension. Coke in the white house should speak for itself. It is a security situation regardless of party much less administration. You speak like a shill. 

[AU9377 6,109]

19 hours ago, KansasTiger said:

You're as 'right of center' as Biden is. I mean, since you have done nothing but defend him, every decision his administration has made, and given countless excuses and performed mental gymnastics on several occasions to defend them. I'd have more respect for you if you were honest about it.

Everyone here, including myself, wants to think they're center. Few of us are, except maybe @DKW 86. But i can only think of a handful of posters who have leaned further left then you over the past month. 

Attack Biden on policy and I will agree with some of the criticisms.  I simply won't play along with attacking the man using baseless lines of personal attacks.  For example, don't tell me that he had a prosecutor in Ukraine fired to protect his son, when I know that most of the Western world wanted the same man fired and had demanded it be done.  I don't buy into conspiracies with no evidence.  I wasn't 100& anti Trump until we saw his actions with regard to Ukraine.  I usually laugh at the idea of Trump being there for the little guy when he pisses in golden toilets.  Even so, he had the chance to bring people together, but chose to tear people apart.

[AU9377 6,109]

13 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

In no way have I suggested such nonsense. Those voices in your head don't allow comprehension. Coke in the white house should speak for itself. It is a security situation regardless of party much less administration. You speak like a shill. 

You, likely not, but right wing media has certainly been parading around in just that manner.

[AU9377 6,109]

4 hours ago, KansasTiger said:

The comparison is because both were obviously covered up. Truth was concealed. He didn't say it was even from the same group of people. He just implied information was being withheld on purpose in both instances so the fervor could die down and be forgotten. And that much is painfully and obviously true. Drawing a naive conclusion that everything is just due to ineptitude and there is no conspiracy is just as dangerous as thinking everything is a conspiracy.

There can be no real impactful change with the current power residing where it does. They won't let it happen. Some people are finally waking up to see that as reality. This fight against the establishment, or deep state, or political elite, whatever you want to call it (it's mostly one in the same) is the impactful change we've needed for decades but are just now realizing.

Elect people to effectuate that change.  Being anti every solution for the sake of anarchy is not bringing change.  That is only bringing chaos.  There is no deep state making decisions on every issue.  There are well funded and overly powerful lobbying groups, making certain big Pharma and the military industrial complex continue to feed off of the tax dollars.  They aren't alone.  When we change that, we can change a lot of things.

[KansasTiger 3,280]

3 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Elect people to effectuate that change.  Being anti every solution for the sake of anarchy is not bringing change.  That is only bringing chaos.  There is no deep state making decisions on every issue.  There are well funded and overly powerful lobbying groups, making certain big Pharma and the military industrial complex continue to feed off of the tax dollars.  They aren't alone.  When we change that, we can change a lot of things.

Yes. It's that simple. Well I want to elect people to effectuate a change on Washington as a whole. So we agree in a way.

[AUFAN78 4,162]

Yeah those evil right wing people. SMH. Still sound like a shill. 

[AUFAN78 4,162]

18 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Elect people to effectuate that change. 

Your words alone indicate you are not willing. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,957]

 All available evidence suggest Epstein actually did kill himself. he was suicidal and suffering though a mental health crisis in the days leading up to his death, the prison was poorly maintained, understaffed, and apparently poorly ran (there’s a reason it’s no longer open).

bad suicide prevention practices and bad guards that weren’t doing their jobs properly allowed Epstein the ability to hang himself. 
 

It’s not the sexy truth and it wouldn’t make a good Tom Clancy novel like the conspiracies out there would, but it’s most likely what happened. 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by CoffeeTiger

[KansasTiger 3,280]

27 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 All available evidence suggest Epstein actually did kill himself. he was suicidal and suffering though a mental health crisis in the days leading up to his death, the prison was poorly maintained, understaffed, and apparently poorly ran (there’s a reason it’s no longer open).

bad suicide prevention practices and bad guards that weren’t doing their jobs properly allowed Epstein the ability to hang himself. 
 

It’s not the sexy truth and it wouldn’t make a good Tom Clancy novel like the conspiracies out there would, but it’s most likely what happened. 

 

 

False. Independent medical examiner raises valid questions like irregular placement of ligature marks and 3 bones broken in the neck that are almost never found in suicides, but in manual strangulation. This tied with the fact that security cameras magically malfunctioned right at the time of death, and you have more evidence than ever he was likely killed. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,957]

24 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

False. Independent medical examiner raises valid questions like irregular placement of ligature marks and 3 bones broken in the neck that are almost never found in suicides, but in manual strangulation. This tied with the fact that security cameras magically malfunctioned right at the time of death, and you have more evidence than ever he was likely killed. 

a few weeks ago new documents were released that showed Eipstein was suicidal (despite his families claims), had already attempted suicide not long before his eventual death and had been making weird comments to guards and his lawyers that indicated he wasn’t in a good state of mind and was not adjusting well to life in jail and his legal situation. 

Also the questions raised about his death was the opinion of one examiner. The examiner who did the actual autopsy stands firmly by their determination of suicide by hanging. Those injuries are not common in hanging victims, but can happen in suicide victims who are older in particular. 
 

The prison and guards acted incompetently through this whole ordeal and their actions gave Eipstein the ability and opportunity to kill himself. If you want to argue they intentionally allowed Eipstein to harm himself…maybe that could be something I’d be open to believing, but the idea that some assassin got into the jail, into his cell and staged a suicide and got out with nobody noticing and orchestrated a huge coverup is frankly absurd IMO and there is no evidence to suggest that anything like that happened. 

[KansasTiger 3,280]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

a few weeks ago new documents were released that showed Eipstein was suicidal (despite his families claims), had already attempted suicide not long before his eventual death and had been making weird comments to guards and his lawyers that indicated he wasn’t in a good state of mind and was not adjusting well to life in jail and his legal situation. 

Also the questions raised about his death was the opinion of one examiner. The examiner who did the actual autopsy stands firmly by their determination of suicide by hanging. Those injuries are not common in hanging victims, but can happen in suicide victims who are older in particular. 
 

The prison and guards acted incompetently through this whole ordeal and their actions gave Eipstein the ability and opportunity to kill himself. If you want to argue they intentionally allowed Eipstein to harm himself…maybe that could be something I’d be open to believing, but the idea that some assassin got into the jail, into his cell and staged a suicide and got out with nobody noticing and orchestrated a huge coverup is frankly absurd IMO and there is no evidence to suggest that anything like that happened. 

Well if there was obvious evidence they'd be terrible hit men.

[KansasTiger 3,280]

Look. To all the conservatives...not a joke!...

Edited July 11, 2023 by KansasTiger

[icanthearyou 4,468]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:08 PM, auburnatl1 said:

As a side note, in 2023 if someone can tell what the heck the center is anymore that’d be great (much the less right, less, or on top of it).

Left and right have nothing to do with partisan politics.  Left and right, in real politics, are about favoring business/capital or, favoring society/labor.

Being permanently left, or right, are the result of manipulation.  It is as logical as having a car with a steering wheel that only steers in one direction.

Real politics, free from bias, free from grift, requires knowing where you are and,,, recognizing that in any political/economic system, the ultimately free, humane, efficient policy will balance the two real political interests.

[auburnatl1 6,293]

10 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Left and right have nothing to do with partisan politics.  Left and right, in real politics, are about favoring business/capital or, favoring society/labor.

Being permanently left, or right, are the result of manipulation.  It is as logical as having a car with a steering wheel that only steers in one direction.

Real politics, free from bias, free from grift, requires knowing where you are and,,, recognizing that in any political/economic system, the ultimately free, humane, efficient policy will balance the two real political interests.

I understand. Many people in the humanities and arts would say exactly the same thing. Monet wouldn’t want to be called an impressionist. Too many exceptions and considerations. But he’s dead and we do.  Irs the nature of most people - to box things.

When in Rome.

[AU9377 6,109]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:09 PM, KansasTiger said:

You're as 'right of center' as Biden is. I mean, since you have done nothing but defend him, every decision his administration has made, and given countless excuses and performed mental gymnastics on several occasions to defend them. I'd have more respect for you if you were honest about it.

Everyone here, including myself, wants to think they're center. Few of us are, except maybe @DKW 86. But i can only think of a handful of posters who have leaned further left then you over the past month. 

My positions on the budget & foreign policy are right of center.  My positions on civil liberties and universal health care are left of center.  I would argue that health care should not be a left or right issue, but a human rights issue based in decency.  Joe Biden has never been a candidate that I was excited to vote for.  Even so, I can see the right wing machine a mile away as it alleges everything possible without the slightest bit of real evidence.  I understand how the DOJ works.  That understanding is why I am confident that when something is not pursued, the reason is more than simply politics.  That isn't as sexy as believing in some grand conspiracy, but it is life.