Landmark SCOTUS Ruling On Affirmative Action

[homersapien 12,262]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

Money/poverty is number 1 reason for divorces and stress in relationships in general.

It's also number 1 reason for crime. If you really want America to be a better place it's trying to figure all the poverty out, which goes bacEven if you choose to live in a fact-free world,  to the circle of education and the best schools costing so much money and so on and so forth.

 

This is also a big reason why slavery is much more of an impact than just saying well there's no more slavery. Or even the travesties such as the dismantling of black Wall Street. Or actually segregation in school and residential zoning. It impacted things up to generations now. 

Families with a history of wealth tend to naturally perpetuate that wealth in successive generation. Children just need to maintain a pattern that is already set.

Families in poverty naturally perpetuate poverty.  Children in those situations have to find a way to break the pattern of poverty.

As a general statement, Blacks have not had many generations for children to break the pattern of poverty, thanks to slavery, reconstruction, followed by Jim Crow. 

I am old enough to remember segregation. My father came from poverty, but - being white - he was able to break that pattern during Jim Crow.  Not many black people his age had the same opportunity.

 

[homersapien 12,262]

7 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

It is a constitutional republic. Not really a “wonder”, just a fact.

But that doesn't mean it's not a democracy.   Our representatives are elected by the people.

What you should call it is a constitutional democratic republic, which describes most - if not all - democracies  in the world.

This is civics 101.  You must have slept through it.

[homersapien 12,262]

7 hours ago, KansasTiger said:

This isn't seen as support for law breaking as much as Washington corruption willing to do anything to stop him from running. And if broken corrupt washington can agree they don't want Trump, it makes people who support 'reform' just want Trump more.

I'm not defending this view. I'm just explaining it. But Trump had his chance and nothing changed in Washington, and he isn't the only candidate capable of running on reform now. There is another!

Trump is running on "reform" only to the extent he wants to reform our government to his authoritarian power.

[KansasTiger 3,261]

Just now, homersapien said:

Trump is running on "reform" only to the extent he wants to reform our government to his authoritarian power.

He has as much a chance of creating a trump centric authoritarian govt as he does of fixing Washington of its deeply ingrained issues. Neither will happen. Mostly because he won't be president again. But also because I'm not sure he's capable of pulling off either one.

One side see trump as this bid bad dictator. The other sees him as this savior and last protector from the globalist elite one world govt. I see him as an incompetent narcissist who can't hire people who can even stand to be in the room with him. I think both sides give him too much credit.

[homersapien 12,262]

1 minute ago, KansasTiger said:

He has as much a chance of creating a trump centric authoritarian govt as he does of fixing Washington of its deeply ingrained issues. Neither will happen. Mostly because he won't be president again. But also because I'm not sure he's capable of pulling off either one.

One side see trump as this bid bad dictator. The other sees him as this savior and last protector from the globalist elite one world govt. I see him as an incompetent narcissist who can't hire people who can even stand to be in the room with him. I think both sides give him too much credit.

I agree.  I don't think he'll get elected if nominated.

I am just arguing with those who would like for him to get elected.

(I know, pretty stupid on my part, 😉)

[auburnatl1 6,207]

57 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Perhaps, but just like a bad economist, you are forgetting about the significance of power.  And, like a bad political scientist, you are forgetting the true political concerns, society and capital.

I would also dismiss you idea that government has tried and tried to produce a better country, a better society.  At times it has, at others, just the opposite.  The one thing that is constant throughout history,,, relative equality is vital to a prosperous, peaceful, civil society.  Whether by indifference or design, moving more people to the margins of society is unsustainable. 

Our problem is inequality.  More specifically, accelerating inequality. 

You analysis is highly flawed because, you are blaming people for their condition.  That is reasonable in the micro.  However, when the problem is macro, you have to realize that societies are driven from the top, not the bottom.  Power resides at the top, not the bottom.  You have to look at the radical shift that is a push back to old liberalism, beginning in the 1970s.  You have to understand that this shift was in fact, orchestrated and, highly "successful".

I don't mean to sound as critical as I do.  It does come through that you realize being always on the political right or, the political left is foolish.  For that,,, I commend you.

I love being commended!!!😇  I get it - the game is rigged and it just isn’t fair.  So if you could reset everything - financial, social, cultural, ect. And then control the hell out it daily. Harmony….  Thats  kinda been/ being tried elsewhere. A lot. Besides the diversity of individuals talent/drive problem (diversity is a 2 edged sword), there is nothing in the universe that is proven to corrupt and crush faster than a centralized monopolistic government (because those pesky mean capitalist “power” types simply relocate to the gov).

Again, I agree with many of the problems you’ve identified.  They’re real. But your solutions feel … tired.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by auburnatl1

[icanthearyou 4,468]

31 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I love being commended!!!😇  I get it - the game is rigged and it just isn’t fair.  So if you could reset everything - financial, social, cultural, ect. And then control the hell out it daily. Harmony….  Thats  kinda been/ being tried elsewhere. A lot. Besides the diversity of individuals talent/drive problem (diversity is a 2 edged sword), there is nothing in the universe that is proven to corrupt and crush faster than a centralized monopolistic government (because those pesky mean capitalist “power” types simply relocate to the gov).

Again, I agree with many of the problems you’ve identified.  They’re real. But your solutions feel … tired.

 

The answer is not for either interest to dominate.  The answer is to balance the interests of society and capital.  The problem is NOT the government.  The problem is that the government is now owned by the capital class.  The "big government" narrative is sheep food.  It diminishes the accomplishments of FDR.  It encourages privatization.  It is a construct of the capital class.  It reinforces the self sufficiency narrative for society and, the unlimited socialism (for their losses) for capital.  Follow the money.  Think about the debt.  Think about how the economy has been financialized.  Think about the concentration of wealth and power.  Think about how the middle class is shrinking despite having given up so much (one income household, pensions, wage growth, benefits) since the 60s.

Again, read the Powell memo.  You are grotesquely underestimating the will of the capital class.  The government should balance power, not serve power.

[aubaseball 2,860]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I agree.  I don't think he'll get elected if nominated.

I am just arguing with those who would like for him to get elected.

(I know, pretty stupid on my part, 😉)

But that’s your problem with just about everything you say.   You assume that everyone that doesn’t agree with you wants him to win.  You really think that if he is elected, he will magically turn this country into something completely different.   The man is a complete bunch of smoke that most on the left has bought into hook line and sinker.   

[auburnatl1 6,207]

8 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

The answer is not for either interest to dominate.  The answer is to balance the interests of society and capital.  The problem is NOT the government.  The problem is that the government is now owned by the capital class.  The "big government" narrative is sheep food.  It diminishes the accomplishments of FDR.  It encourages privatization.  It is a construct of the capital class.  It reinforces the self sufficiency narrative for society and, the unlimited socialism (for their losses) for capital.  Follow the money.  Think about the debt.  Think about how the economy has been financialized.  Think about the concentration of wealth and power.  Think about how the middle class is shrinking despite having given up so much (one income household, pensions, wage growth, benefits) since the 60s.

Again, read the Powell memo.  You are grotesquely underestimating the will of the capital class.  The government should balance power, not serve power.

1) term limits across the board would dramatically curve corruption  and the blurring of industry and gov 2) the primary reason for the middle class impact is globalization in manufacturing and services  -10s of millions of lower and middle class cobs were vaporized - local and near shoring needs to be aggressively tax incentivized (carrot vs stick). The china thing is already spurring this. Instead of vilifying capitalism, manipulate it. 3) stop bitching about bad teachers and fix it.  Sell thr concept to the public to raise property taxes to get better, more energetic, engaged teachers. Increase salary, pay for student improvement.  It’ll save trillions in the long haul 4)  change the entire conspiracy narrative of “theyre” why I failed. 1st generation immigrants do better for a reason: mindset.

Thanks for your thoughts. I’l read the Powell doc. 

[TexasTiger 14,364]

9 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

1) term limits across the board would dramatically curve corruption  and the blurring of industry and gov 2) the primary reason for the middle class impact is globalization in manufacturing and services  -10s of millions of lower and middle class cobs were vaporized - local and near shoring needs to be aggressively tax incentivized (carrot vs stick). The china thing is already spurring this. Instead of vilifying capitalism, manipulate it. 3) stop bitching about bad teachers and fix it.  Sell thr concept to the public to raise property taxes to get better, more energetic, engaged teachers. Increase salary, pay for student improvement.  It’ll save trillions in the long haul 4)  change the entire conspiracy narrative of “theyre” why I failed. 1st generation immigrants do better for a reason: mindset.

Thanks for your thoughts. I’l read the Powell doc. 

How would term limits fix it since the legislators are immediately looking for their next job?

[cole256 17,085]

4 hours ago, LPTiger said:

Cole, I agree 100% on poverty but poverty is a result of single parent households.   Even among high school dropouts, intact households have more prosperity than single parent households.

I don't think poverty is the result of that, I think there are many different variables and I think African Americans have been given the short end of the stick as far as the race out of poverty. But I do agree with you that it is a big or an important variable. African Americans did a bunch of work building the infrastructure of society and didn't get any pay. Also like I said it is proven the number 1 strain on relationships is money so poverty is still having a hand on more poverty even if what you say was 100% fact. 

Like I said you don't see more middle class black people committing more crime than middle class white people. The crime is usually about money. 

Also too look at what they did to black Wall Street. And even think about when alcohol was illegal....many well off businesses and families were built during that crime period.....but they eventuallymade it legal. 

Now look at when black people got their hands into drugs and start making money what did they do? They enforced laws to look men up for the rest of their lives......not make it legal so they could thrive......

And as far as cannabis when white people saw the money that could be made from it what did they do? They made it legal so they could make money and made it harder for black people to get the permits needed to sell legally... 

It's just very easy to have a race and you run and you have the competitor carry you halfway thru, then make the competitor walk back to the starting line and at the end of the race look back and tell the competitor that if they want to win they need to run the race like you and prosper....and then on top of that say something like the reason they are struggling is because their form isn't right when they run, maybe their posture or form is off because they carried you half of the way so they couldn't run with their back straight. But they are still running nevertheless....

Edited July 4, 2023 by cole256

[auburnatl1 6,207]

47 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

How would term limits fix it since the legislators are immediately looking for their next job?

It’s not a fix all but it eliminates politics as a money making career as well the longer the duration the  longer lobbyists have to build “relationships”.  Secondarily, most republicans support trump due to “Cheney effect” syndrome.  Not worrying about reelection … liberates.

[TexasTiger 14,364]

23 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

It’s not a fix all but it eliminates politics as a money making career as well the longer the duration the  longer lobbyists have to build “relationships”.  Secondarily, most republicans support trump due to “Cheney effect” syndrome.  Not worrying about reelection … liberates.

But if anything increases corruption— incentive to cash in. I don’t see many freshmen congress people that impress.

[LPTiger 5,495]

41 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

It’s not a fix all but it eliminates politics as a money making career as well the longer the duration the  longer lobbyists have to build “relationships”.  Secondarily, most republicans support trump due to “Cheney effect” syndrome.  Not worrying about reelection … liberates.

If you have term limits, then you have judges, during their term, trying to impress people to hire them after their term.   Term limits is not the answer for judges. 

[PUB78 1,413]

6 hours ago, LPTiger said:

Cole, I agree 100% on poverty but poverty is a result of single parent households.   Even among high school dropouts, intact households have more prosperity than single parent households.

Studies show that you have a 98% chance of NOT living in poverty if you do  just  four (4) things.

1. Finish High School 

2. Get A Job

3. Don’t Have Children Until You Are Married

4. Don’t get addicted to drugs, alcohol or gambling.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

2 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Instead of vilifying capitalism, manipulate it.

I'm not vilifying capitalism.  I want to restore capitalism.  What you are calling "manipulate",,, I would call regulate.

I am vilifying the capitalist.  They are always the real enemy of capitalism.  They do not want competition.  They do not want fair value exchange.  They want total domination of wealth and power.  Their dominance over the government of this country, over the country itself is unacceptable.

They eradicated the money from the unions by eradicating the unions.  They have effectively purchased control of the government, directly through money in politics and indirectly through a variety of means.  They keep this country distracted and divided so that there is no challenge.  They finance almost all of the campaigns.  They have enough lobbyist to be in front of ever member of congress all day, every day, with multiple people.  And now,,, they are treating members of the Supreme Court like hookers and,,, some members of the court are happy to take the money.  Nothing will change until money is out of politics and government.  Nothing will change until people realize just how concentrated wealth and power truly are.  The longer we wait to change course, the more painful, and unpredictable, that transition will be.

 

 

[Gowebb11 9,946]

1 minute ago, icanthearyou said:

they are treating members of the Supreme Court like hookers and,,,

This especially. Suddenly Supreme Court justices have super wealthy best friends who love to lavish them with ultra expensive goodies and perks. Total coincidence of course. Very dangerous. 

[icanthearyou 4,468]

2 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

This especially. Suddenly Supreme Court justices have super wealthy best friends who love to lavish them with ultra expensive goodies and perks. Total coincidence of course. Very dangerous. 

Yes.  They have even reinforced the idea that more money should be in politics and,,, that money can remain anonymous.  It is nothing more than sanctioning corruption.  No one in their right mind would believe this kind of money goes into politics over some deeply held ideological, philosophical, moralistic, altruistic reason.  That's garbage.  That's the distraction.  It's all about using the power of the government to put limited interests above the greater interest. 

It is putting the government of this country,,, up for sale.  It is outrageous. 

[auburnatl1 6,207]

36 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I'm not vilifying capitalism.  I want to restore capitalism.  What you are calling "manipulate",,, I would call regulate.

I am vilifying the capitalist.  They are always the real enemy of capitalism.  They do not want competition.  They do not want fair value exchange.  They want total domination of wealth and power.  Their dominance over the government of this country, over the country itself is unacceptable.

They eradicated the money from the unions by eradicating the unions.  They have effectively purchased control of the government, directly through money in politics and indirectly through a variety of means.  They keep this country distracted and divided so that there is no challenge.  They finance almost all of the campaigns.  They have enough lobbyist to be in front of ever member of congress all day, every day, with multiple people.  And now,,, they are treating members of the Supreme Court like hookers and,,, some members of the court are happy to take the money.  Nothing will change until money is out of politics and government.  Nothing will change until people realize just how concentrated wealth and power truly are.  The longer we wait to change course, the more painful, and unpredictable, that transition will be.

 

 

Your points strike me much more as teddy Roosevelt-based than fdr. Robber barons (and yes, again, this debate has been around a loooong time).  Your point  that I agree with is campaign reform - obviously the line between a donation and a bribe has been crossed and must be managed. It’s a fatal flaw. However, where we disagree is with “capitalists”. You can try to regulate greed but when you do, you’ll destroy just about everything else that’s working.  Been tried. There’s a reason China (who regulates virtually everything) must steal IP from us as a culture to compete.

It’s a choice. You can see musk-type guys as either the worst in capitalism or the best. I see the latter. Ugly warts and all.

[aubaseball 2,860]

14 hours ago, homersapien said:

Nevertheless those peaceful protests - as well as the violent as riots - were about racism.  Jan 6 was about overturning our country's election. 

Jan 6 was about a perceived illegal election.   Whether you and others care to believe, people thought that the way the election was carried out was wrong.   I’ve asked you time and time again, do you believe the changing of the way votes were cast was a legal thing?  I don’t believe I’ve ever gotten an answer.   Not that I really care, because I’m sure you will say that  it was justified because of Covid.   Governors went beyond their scope and changed how votes were cast.   That’s a fact.   That can interrupted however you want to look at it.   
You somehow think that I agree with what happened on Jan 6 and many others on here.   You are completely wrong just as you’re completely wrong on the protest in 2020.   Those protests turned out to be nothing more than destruction and looting and a way to raise money to line the pockets of fraudsters.   

[DKW 86 7,914]

20 hours ago, cole256 said:

My point was that there isn't any shortage of African Americans that qualify for scholarships like someone suggested. There are brilliant students in Auburn's engineering program busting their butt while mentoring and tutoring others just to try to get $500 scholarship that for whatever reason these students couldn't get anything from Auburn so the leaf professor would go out and try to get businesses to donate money. 

I agree 100%. I have lifelong AU Fans I know that just got crushed when they applied to AU. There was literally no schollies their daughter qualified for. She got all but full rides from other SEC Schools. Hear the same over and over. 

AU just doesn't even bother with schollies to some colleges like Education and Nursing. 

[LPTiger 5,495]

30 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

I agree 100%. I have lifelong AU Fans I know that just got crushed when they applied to AU. There was literally no schollies their daughter qualified for. She got all but full rides from other SEC Schools. Hear the same over and over. 

AU just doesn't even bother with schollies to some colleges like Education and Nursing. 

Merit scholarships are available at Auburn.   To receive the most $$$, you need a 33 or higher on the ACT.   A 30 ACT gets a student 8K per year.   We have had 2 children receive the most available and a 3rd one -- well let's just say we are happy she is at Auburn.

[cole256 17,085]

3 hours ago, aubaseball said:

Jan 6 was about a perceived illegal election.   Whether you and others care to believe, people thought that the way the election was carried out was wrong.   I’ve asked you time and time again, do you believe the changing of the way votes were cast was a legal thing?  I don’t believe I’ve ever gotten an answer.   Not that I really care, because I’m sure you will say that  it was justified because of Covid.   Governors went beyond their scope and changed how votes were cast.   That’s a fact.   That can interrupted however you want to look at it.   
You somehow think that I agree with what happened on Jan 6 and many others on here.   You are completely wrong just as you’re completely wrong on the protest in 2020.   Those protests turned out to be nothing more than destruction and looting and a way to raise money to line the pockets of fraudsters.   

You can't say what a protest is about. You can question whoever started the protest and their agenda, and if that's corrupt then they merely tricked people but that doesn't change the reason people were upset.

Also you notice how EVERY black leader or movement the people are always crooks? It's always been funny to me how white people seem to be very quick to discredit anybody besides their leaders when if you look at history their leaders are the people with the history of manipulating and lying. But somehow the people that talk about that are actually the ones without morals and character.....

[TexasTiger 14,364]

4 hours ago, aubaseball said:

Jan 6 was about a perceived illegal election.   Whether you and others care to believe, people thought that the way the election was carried out was wrong.   I’ve asked you time and time again, do you believe the changing of the way votes were cast was a legal thing?  I don’t believe I’ve ever gotten an answer.   Not that I really care, because I’m sure you will say that  it was justified because of Covid.   Governors went beyond their scope and changed how votes were cast.   That’s a fact.   That can interrupted however you want to look at it.   
You somehow think that I agree with what happened on Jan 6 and many others on here.   You are completely wrong just as you’re completely wrong on the protest in 2020.   Those protests turned out to be nothing more than destruction and looting and a way to raise money to line the pockets of fraudsters.   

The way votes were cast has been challenged in court and failed. So it was a “legal thing.” The answer to the question your asking is an easy one. You just refuse to accept it.

[DKW 86 7,914]

1 hour ago, LPTiger said:

Merit scholarships are available at Auburn.   To receive the most $$$, you need a 33 or higher on the ACT.   A 30 ACT gets a student 8K per year.   We have had 2 children receive the most available and a 3rd one -- well let's just say we are happy she is at Auburn.

Well in Comm College World, 30-33s were not happening...lol