Gotta admit

[TexasTiger 14,524]

If you told me 20-30 years ago that this degenerate would be adored by white evangelicals I would have laughed. I knew there was a great deal of hypocrisy among many evangelicals, but man did I misjudge the depth & breadth of it.

[DKW 86 7,946]

[CoffeeTiger 5,957]

[TitanTiger 21,558]

If Republicans nominate Trump again in 2024, they deserve political oblivion for a decade or more.  It's pathetic.

[Mikey 16,781]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

If Republicans nominate Trump again in 2024, they deserve political oblivion for a decade or more.  It's pathetic.

Just like in 2020, Trump would be a better president for America than Biden, so there's that to consider. Blind hatred for Trump without considering the consequences of NOT electing Trump is what put us in the terrible situation we are in right now.

[TitanTiger 21,558]

6 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Just like in 2020, Trump would be a better president for America than Biden, so there's that to consider. Blind hatred for Trump without considering the consequences of NOT electing Trump is what put us in the terrible situation we are in right now.

A ham sandwich would be a better president for America than Trump.

[AuCivilEng1 12,539]

8 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Just like in 2020, Trump would be a better president for America than Biden, so there's that to consider. Blind hatred for Trump without considering the consequences of NOT electing Trump is what put us in the terrible situation we are in right now.

I still haven't gotten a decent answer on why Trump would be a better president than Biden. Nothing that is supported by actual facts anyway.

[aubiefifty 18,444]

22 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Just like in 2020, Trump would be a better president for America than Biden, so there's that to consider. Blind hatred for Trump without considering the consequences of NOT electing Trump is what put us in the terrible situation we are in right now.

of course you would vote for a crook. how many times has he been impeached? how many indictments does he have against him? how many of his staff went to prison? how many of his lawyers have been getting their asses reamed by federal judges for doing crooked crap? find great joy in the dumbing down of america mickey.

[aubiefifty 18,444]

i wonder what the evangelicals are going to do when trump makes abortion legal federally? i keep reading women are pissed about abortion rights so lets see if trump has their back or renegs on them like they do everything else? folks are saying the women are getting ready to come out in huge numbers.

[TitanTiger 21,558]

I think several of the GOP folks running could beat Biden.  It's not actually that hard.  He's quite unpopular and doesn't really engender great passion from Democrats either.  And yet Republicans seem literally hellbent on nominating the dude that lost to Biden already, who lost the House and the Senate, whose track record of candidates he backs actually winning is piss poor, and whose negative ratings are so high that he's the one candidate that CAN motivate people to turn out and support Joe.

It's mindbogging that they can't get this.  They say sin makes you stupid.  I think hypocritically backing deeply unfit and immoral candidates must do the same thing.

[CoffeeTiger 5,957]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think several of the GOP folks running could beat Biden.  It's not actually that hard.  He's quite unpopular and doesn't really engender great passion from Democrats either.  And yet Republicans seem literally hellbent on nominating the dude that lost to Biden already, who lost the House and the Senate, whose track record of candidates he backs actually winning is piss poor, and whose negative ratings are so high that he's the one candidate that CAN motivate people to turn out and support Joe.

It's mindbogging that they can't get this.  They say sin makes you stupid.  I think hypocritically backing deeply unfit and immoral candidates must do the same thing.

 

But if the Dems cheated to win all the elections in 2020 then Trump didn't really "lose" anything. It was taken from him. And nothing would make the Dems and fake news media cry like voting Trump back into office. 

[TitanTiger 21,558]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

But if the Dems cheated to win all the elections in 2020 then Trump didn't really "lose" anything. It was taken from him. And nothing would make the Dems and fake news media cry like voting Trump back into office. 

A fairly comprehensive encapsulation of the Trump backing mindset.  "Deep State", "fake news" and "own the libs."  

Nothing about character or honesty.

Nothing about the right temperament.

Nothing about good judgement or wisdom.

Nothing about prudence.

Nothing about seeing the office as public service rather than a means to personal gain and power.

And beyond such trifling concerns we'd expect of good leaders, not even many practical reasons.  His wins are constantly offset by own-goal level losses.

And they live in a constant feedback loop reinforcing all the stupid reasons to keep supporting him and listening to none of the excellent reasons to back a different horse this time and leave this loser behind.  It's like a damn drug they can't kick.

[SLAG-91 1,625]

30 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think several of the GOP folks running could beat Biden.  It's not actually that hard.  He's quite unpopular and doesn't really engender great passion from Democrats either.  And yet Republicans seem literally hellbent on nominating the dude that lost to Biden already, who lost the House and the Senate, whose track record of candidates he backs actually winning is piss poor, and whose negative ratings are so high that he's the one candidate that CAN motivate people to turn out and support Joe.

It's mindbogging that they can't get this.  They say sin makes you stupid.  I think hypocritically backing deeply unfit and immoral candidates must do the same thing.

Primaries are where this train wreck can be avoided, and this is where the people who may be fairly regular November voters, but apathetic about primaries need to be more active. Problem is that, like 2016, the field may not coalesce around a Trump alternative.

I'm not holding my breath on people being aware enough to see the path to a non-Trump Rep candidate, though.

It would take a LOT for me to just leave the top of the ballot completely blank, but I do have to admit that the possibility of a rematch of 2020 (something that no one with two brain cells to rub together wants to see) has planted that seed in my head.

[TitanTiger 21,558]

13 minutes ago, SLAG-91 said:

Primaries are where this train wreck can be avoided, and this is where the people who may be fairly regular November voters, but apathetic about primaries need to be more active. Problem is that, like 2016, the field may not coalesce around a Trump alternative.

I'm not holding my breath on people being aware enough to see the path to a non-Trump Rep candidate, though.

It would take a LOT for me to just leave the top of the ballot completely blank, but I do have to admit that the possibility of a rematch of 2020 (something that no one with two brain cells to rub together wants to see) has planted that seed in my head.

There are times where we've all voted for someone who wasn't our favorite.  Wasn't the one we supported in the primaries.  Might have even held our nose and voted for them unenthusiastically.  And unfortunately, I think the GOP (both parties do this but what the Dems do isn't relevant for me) realized this and took advantage of it.  They knew they could serve up any s**t sandwich they wanted to and a certain percentage of their base would pull the lever no matter what...so they started stopping caring about whether the candidate was any good.  If you want better candidates, the only way to get the party to listen is to stop being an automatic vote for them.  Make them pay for that mentality at the ballot box once or twice and they'll get the message.

Trump was a step (or more) too far.  He wasn't a "hold your nose" candidate.  He was unfit in at least every way that Bill Clinton was unfit.  All the reasons conservatives gave for why Bill lacked the moral character for the highest office in the land completely applied to Trump.  But he had an "R" behind his name so they ditched their belief in moral character and settled for power.  It was hypocrisy and continues to be so.

In the end, your vote is about what you can live with in terms of your conscience and being consistent with moral principles.  So if you can't vote for either major party candidate, vote for a candidate you can actually live with and not be a hypocrite.  Or vote for no one.  No one is obligated to keep playing this idiotic two-party, "S**t Sandwich A vs S**t Sandwich B" game anymore.

[homersapien 12,310]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

A fairly comprehensive encapsulation of the Trump backing mindset.  "Deep State", "fake news" and "own the libs."  

Nothing about character or honesty.

Nothing about the right temperament.

Nothing about good judgement or wisdom.

Nothing about prudence.

Nothing about seeing the office as public service rather than a means to personal gain and power.

And beyond such trifling concerns we'd expect of good leaders, not even many practical reasons.  His wins are constantly offset by own-goal level losses.

And they live in a constant feedback loop reinforcing all the stupid reasons to keep supporting him and listening to none of the excellent reasons to back a different horse this time and leave this loser behind.  It's like a damn drug they can't kick.

Trump's popularity with his base has nothing to do with cognitive reasoning.

It's purely emotional.

[aubaseball 2,898]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Nothing about seeing the office as public service rather than a means to personal gain and power.

Even for you, this one is super rich.   Name me who hasn’t in the last 30 years?   

[homersapien 12,310]

2 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

Even for you, this one is super rich.   Name me who hasn’t in the last 30 years?   

There is a big difference between seeing the wealth as a nice benefit vs. the primary reason for running.

[aubaseball 2,898]

Just now, homersapien said:

There is a big difference between seeing the wealth as a nice benefit vs. the primary reason for running.

Whatever man,  it’s all the same in the end.  And I didn’t know that you were a mind reader.  

[TitanTiger 21,558]

7 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

Even for you, this one is super rich.   Name me who hasn’t in the last 30 years?   

It's a valid thing to look for.  You might not find someone that checks every one of these boxes or has no questions on some of them.  Trump fails literally every single one of them and worse by an order of magnitude than any president in my lifetime.

[homersapien 12,310]

1 hour ago, aubaseball said:

Whatever man,  it’s all the same in the end.  And I didn’t know that you were a mind reader.  

"Mind reader"?  Then who do you think I was talking about?

Most presidents ran because their egos - they felt they could improve America and make their mark on history.

Edited June 27, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 12,310]

Even Trump admitted that he ran to become more famous:

A very revealing Donald Trump quote about why he ran for president

“The question I get asked more than any other question: ‘If you had it to do again, would you have done it?’” Trump told Haberman. “The answer is, yeah, I think so. Because here’s the way I look at it. I have so many rich friends and nobody knows who they are.”

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/26/politics/donald-trump-president-quote-maggie-haberman-book/index.html

[TitanTiger 21,558]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

It's a valid thing to look for.  You might not find someone that checks every one of these boxes or has no questions on some of them.  Trump fails literally every single one of them and worse by an order of magnitude than any president in my lifetime.

Also, I'll say that even if some of them weren't pure altruists, there have been presidents and candidates in the general elections in my life that got this one mostly right.  They were running because they actually thought they could help and serve this country.  They might have been wrong around what was the best direction or course of action for the country at times, but their motives weren't for selfish gain or raw power.  Ones I would put in that category:

Gerald Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
Walter Mondale
George H.W. Bush
Michael Dukakis
Bob Dole
George W. Bush (who I think is a good man but surrounded himself with some power hungry people unfortunately)
Barack Obama
John McCain
Mitt Romney

Jury is still out on Biden somewhat depending on what, if anything, else comes out on Hunter but my general feeling on Biden is that he's a decent man.

Again, this isn't a list of people I think had all the right ideas or I think in the broader picture would have been a good choice for president when they ran.  But it's a list of people I think who were fundamentally decent and who weren't running for office for primarily self-serving and power-hungry reasons.  But I do think these folks believed they could serve this country and help the people of it with their policies.

[KansasTiger 3,280]

I dont even disagree with half the stuff said here, but @I_M4_AU, @aubaseball, and @Mikey have got to be masochist for continuing to toil away in this echo chamber. Mikey, with the abuse you get on the football side, i know you are one. At any one time there are like 10+ left or left leaning posters ganging up on one or two conservatives lol. I'm not complaining, it is what it is, just found it amusing.

[I_M4_AU 9,051]

20 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Barack Obama

The line started here:  his net worth when elected was around $800,000 and now worth $70 million and I thought his policies were to help the poor.

Trump is pure ego, but he will take anything thrown his way in terms of money.

Romney and McCain are the type of people that would run to better America, but interestedly enough they both lost badly

Your take on Biden is *head in the sand* bad.  Anybody that openly touts the idea of sterilizing children is evil.

To me DeSantis is a guy that wants to help America be, dare I say, great again.

Edited June 28, 2023 by I_M4_AU

[I_M4_AU 9,051]

7 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

I dont even disagree with half the stuff said here, but @I_M4_AU, @aubaseball, and @Mikey have got to be masochist for continuing to toil away in this echo chamber. Mikey, with the abuse you get on the football side, i know you are one. At any one time there are like 10+ left or left leaning posters ganging up on one or two conservatives lol. I'm not complaining, it is what it is, just found it amusing.

Could you imagine what this board would be like without our masochistic tendencies?  There are two sides to a debate even though one side wants to silence any opposition.