Donald Trump Indicted Again.

[aubaseball 2,898]

18 hours ago, homersapien said:

Well, in this case the media is simply reporting the facts of the indictment.

But to your point, it's quite possible Trump will get off again. 

After all, the case will be tried in Florida and the prosecutors have an almost impossible job to seat 12 jurors who will aren't MAGA cultists and are objectively willing to do the right thing.  But it that happens, its not the media's fault. 

This post sums up the left position with out a doubt.   You and others claim the same thing that you accuse the right of doing.   “It will probably not be an indictment because of all the MAGA people “.   lol.    
 

For the record, because I’m sure you and others will find everything wrong with everything anyone post because it’s not your way of thinking, I couldn’t care any less if he is found guilty or not.   It’s not going to change my life in any way, but your hypocrisy is on another level.   You and the others in this forum can’t even see the hypocrisy in your statements.   

[AUFAN78 4,162]

2 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I'll explain this clearly again.  According to the FBI, the emails in question did not have classified markings when transmitted, although ___________ contained classified information.  Classified markings include what you listed above and more.
 

In other words, in the SUBJECT HEADING, the email wasn't marked with any identifying heading as is usually the case when classified information is transmitted.  Make no mistake, that type information is transmitted daily at that level of government.  That is really irrelevant due to the fact that ... as stated by the FBI at the time of the announcement to not charge.....the FBI could not

“find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts” as “all the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an interference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice.”

THEY HAD NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT A CHARGE THAT SHE KNOWINGLY AND INTENTIONALLY HELD AND TRANSMITTED CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.  Without that evidence, the only charge available requires a finding of GROSS NEGLIGENCE and the classified information must be related to National Defense.  They weren't going to be able to prove "gross negligence" given the fact that the two prior Secretaries had used multiple unsecured email accounts in the same manner and there was also no evidence that the information considered to be classified had anything to do with national defense.

If it ain't there .... it ain't there.  That leads to two options.  Recommend that no charges be filed OR prepare to get your ass beat to a pulp and have your legal career flushed when you lose badly at trial.

 

Hillary could literally shoot someone in broad daylight before a national audience and you'd defend her. I guess the good news is 35% of the country agree with this sentiment. I'm telling you, Trump should have lit the match. SMH

[AU9377 6,109]

12 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Verification with every ballot, without exception?

So I received, via mail, this ballot during this international pandemic. How exactly do you know that it is I that completed it? 

Signature verification is the first step.   People have been voting absentee for over half a century. Voter rolls are updated more than you realize.  When someone's death is reported, that is reported to the State and their name is taken off the list of registered voters.  If someone is convicted and sent to prison or is on probation, that notification is also sent and their name is removed until their sentence is completed and their voting rights restored.

The only reason this is an issue is that Trump lost.  Had he won by two votes, this process would have never been made an issue.

[AUFAN78 4,162]

6 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

This post sums up the left position with out a doubt.   You and others claim the same thing that you accuse the right of doing.   “It will probably not be an indictment because of all the MAGA people “.   lol.    
 

For the record, because I’m sure you and others will find everything wrong with everything anyone post because it’s not your way of thinking, I couldn’t care any less if he is found guilty or not.   It’s not going to change my life in any way, but your hypocrisy is on another level.   You and the others in this forum can’t even see the hypocrisy in your statements.   

The hypocrisy is the main point right. I mean had Trump done what Hillary did with a hammer and bleachbit this place would be screaming! I mean we witnessed as much for four years of whining and gnashing of teeth. 

[AU9377 6,109]

Just now, AUFAN78 said:

Hillary could literally shoot someone in broad daylight before a national audience and you'd defend her. I guess the good news is 35% of the country agree with this sentiment. I'm telling you, Trump should have lit the match. SMH

I never wanted her to run in the first place.  That said, I don't care what percentage agrees or disagrees with the factual analysis that I explained.  To pretend that the investigation into her emails and the current Trump charges are in any way a misapplication of the law is to play pretend for the sake of politics.  Have you noticed that everything Trump has been accused of, both past and present, has been supported by the testimony of people in his own inner circle?  When someone is truthful and gives evidence that shows Trump to be the person he has proven himself to be, you all simply throw them off the island.

You then jump up and down screaming that its those evil Democrats and their witch hunts.  A child can see that isn't the case.... unless that child is only allowed to watch Fox Entertainment "News"

[AUFAN78 4,162]

14 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Signature verification is the first step.   People have been voting absentee for over half a century. Voter rolls are updated more than you realize.  When someone's death is reported, that is reported to the State and their name is taken off the list of registered voters.  If someone is convicted and sent to prison or is on probation, that notification is also sent and their name is removed until their sentence is completed and their voting rights restored.

The only reason this is an issue is that Trump lost.  Had he won by two votes, this process would have never been made an issue.

So as usual, you deflect with some nonsense and fail to answer a simple question. Can you just be honest for a couple minutes and answer the question I presented?

I literally have five minutes, so please hurry.

Edited June 11, 2023 by AUFAN78

[AUFAN78 4,162]

3 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I never wanted her to run in the first place.  That said, I don't care what percentage agrees or disagrees with the factual analysis that I explained.  To pretend that the investigation into her emails and the current Trump charges are in any way a misapplication of the law is to play pretend for the sake of politics.  Have you noticed that everything Trump has been accused of, both past and present, has been supported by the testimony of people in his own inner circle?  When someone is truthful and gives evidence that shows Trump to be the person he has proven himself to be, you all simply throw them off the island.

You then jump up and down screaming that its those evil Democrats and their witch hunts.  A child can see that isn't the case.... unless that child is only allowed to watch Fox Entertainment "News"

It is rather apparent you have voices in your head. I cite one poll and you create all that nonsense? F***ing laughable.

[AU9377 6,109]

Just now, AUFAN78 said:

The hypocrisy is the main point right. I mean had Trump done what Hillary did with a hammer and bleachbit this place would be screaming! I mean we witnessed as much for four years of whining and gnashing of teeth. 

Did she ever have an aide destroy an old device with a hammer? Yes.  Was it to prevent the FBI from having it? According to the FBI, NO.  Furthermore, Bleachbit is a commonly used program that is FREE.

[homersapien 12,309]

1 hour ago, aubaseball said:

This post sums up the left position with out a doubt.   You and others claim the same thing that you accuse the right of doing.   “It will probably not be an indictment because of all the MAGA people “.   lol.    
 

For the record, because I’m sure you and others will find everything wrong with everything anyone post because it’s not your way of thinking, I couldn’t care any less if he is found guilty or not.   It’s not going to change my life in any way, but your hypocrisy is on another level.   You and the others in this forum can’t even see the hypocrisy in your statements.  

The indictment has already occurred dumb ass.   I am talking about the resulting trial and conviction. 

But since you brought it up, I misspoke. 

I implied there would be enough MAGAs on the jury to acquit him ("let him off").  That was a gross  overstatement.  There will likely be enough stupid, MAGA useful fools on the jury to evade a conviction, but certainly not enough to acquit or find him non-guilty.  In the event of a hung jury, there will be a re-trial - and presumably enough re-trials - until a final result is secured. 

Otherwise - as per the rest of your idiotic post -  your contempt for the rule of law, as well as your contempt for our country's security is noted.

[homersapien 12,309]

1 hour ago, AUFAN78 said:

The hypocrisy is the main point right. I mean had Trump done what Hillary did with a hammer and bleachbit this place would be screaming! I mean we witnessed as much for four years of whining and gnashing of teeth. 

There is no comparison. 

Hillary didn't purposefully retain emails nor did she display them to random people in order to  show-off. At least that was the finding of the investigation.

And unlike Trump, we don't know what was in those emails.  Things like the classified itinerary of a visiting foreign dignitary is a far cry from nuclear and military secrets.  I can see the former type of "classified" info being transmitted by email, but certainly not the latter.

You fools can keep screaming "but Hillary" all you want, but it's not going to have any impact on what what we know Trump is guilty of.

You are just making excuses for him for what he did.  Hillary "whataboutism" ain't gonna cut it.

 

[homersapien 12,309]

1 hour ago, AUFAN78 said:

So as usual, you deflect with some nonsense and fail to answer a simple question. Can you just be honest for a couple minutes and answer the question I presented?

I literally have five minutes, so please hurry.

He answered your question.  Like most cultists, you just can't handle the truth.

[autigeremt 7,256]

I say indict them all. They deserve it. 

[homersapien 12,309]

On a more serious note,

Republicans should listen to Bill Barr

By Jennifer Rubin  June 11, 2023

Former attorney general William P. Barr could not influence special counsel Jack Smith or Attorney General Merrick Garland in their decision to indict former president Donald Trump. By the time a jury is selected, most jurors (if they had even heard Barr’s remarks) will have forgotten the reaction in the first few days after the indictment. But with the indictment now released — making public the damning series of charges — Barr can play a vital role in helping Republicans accept that their front-runner for the 2024 presidential nomination faces the likelihood of trial and conviction — developments that cannot be wished away.

Since he left the Trump administration, Barr has been candid about Trump’s shortcomings. Barr provided testimony to the Jan. 6, 2021, House select committee, saying he told Trump there was no evidence of election fraud. He told the committee, “Right out of the box on election night, the president claimed that there was major fraud underway. I mean, this [claim of fraud] happened, as far as I could tell, before there was actually any potential of looking at evidence.”

More recently, he’s been open about Trump’s unfitness for office. “He does not have the discipline. He does not have the ability for strategic thinking and linear thinking — or setting priorities or how to get things done in the system,” Barr told a Cleveland group in early May. “It’s a horror show, you know, when he’s left to his own devices.”

With regard to the case stemming from Trump’s retention of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, Barr has been a lonely Republican voice warning that the charges are serious. He said on ABC’s “This Week” on April 9, “I think that’s a serious potential case. I think they probably have some very good evidence there.” In May, he told CBS News, “It’s very clear that he had no business having those documents.” He explained, “He was given a long time to send them back. And they were subpoenaed. And I’ve said all along that he wouldn’t get in trouble, probably, just for taking them, just as [President] Biden I don’t think is going to get in trouble or [former vice president Mike] Pence is not going to get in troub

This past week on CBS, he declared, “This is not a case of the Department of Justice conducting a witch hunt. … This would have gone nowhere had the president just returned the documents, but he jerked them around for a year and a half. … There is no excuse for what he did here.” He went on at length about Trump’s mind-set:

Never-Trump Republican Bill Kristol told me, “Bill Barr served Trump, distorted the Mueller report for Trump, defended the indefensible for Trump. But even he acknowledges the classified documents is a crime too far.”

Why should any of this matter? As Trump’s former attorney general, Barr’s willingness to speak out tells Republicans still capable of reason that the case is real, it’s serious, it cannot be brushed off and that the Justice Department didn’t engage in misconduct. Barr could break through the right-wing media bubble that shelters millions of Republicans from reality. They have convinced themselves that Trump is innocent and/or that this will all go away. Even after word of the indictment spread, Republican politicians continued to attack the Justice Department as if it, not Trump, were on trial. Barr is there to shake them by the lapels, effectively telling them, “No, he’s in big trouble because he did something very, very wrong.”

Barr is not alone in calling out Trump’s conduct. After the indictment was unsealed, Trump’s former counsel Ty Cobb told CNN, “I think Trump is in an enormous amount of trouble. This indictment is about as carefully structured and evidentially supported as any indictment in history.” Law professor Jonathan Turley, who frequently defended Trump’s behavior during his impeachments, wrote, “For two years, I have said that the Mar-a-Lago charges — particularly obstruction — represent the greatest threat to Donald Trump. It remains baffling why Trump forced this issue over these documents rather than just give them all back.” And yet Barr remains the best-known lawyer for many Americans. As a former attorney general, his words carry additional weight.

Perhaps, now that the indictment has moved from theoretical to actual, Republicans will come to their senses. And Barr might be just the person to help that process along. Never-Trump strategist Sarah Longwell told me, “Bill Barr being vocal about the seriousness of the documents case will make it harder for many Republicans to casually dismiss this indictment as they did with the [Manhattan district attorney Alvin] Bragg indictment.”er to skip to end of carousel

Perhaps this will be too little too late to stop Trump’s 2024 candidacy. However, donors, establishment Republicans and ordinary voters might listen to Barr even though they would not pay attention to the mainstream media or even former GOP New Jersey governor Chris Christie. (On Friday, Christie slammed Trump: “The facts that are laid out here are damning in terms of Donald Trump’s conduct. … Do we really believe that someone who engaged in this type of conduct is going to be the best person to put up against Joe Biden?”)

Meanwhile, Barr will be a critical factor in creating a permission structure in which Republicans need not concede that their past support for Trump was “wrong.” Barr could convince a significant number of former Trump voters that the documents case is so serious that reelecting Trump would be dangerous — either because he could be convicted before taking office or because his actions, even if not illegal, were reckless.

Barr’s statements might help “soft Republicans,” independents and those who believe that electing Trump will “solve” his legal dilemma to finally reject Trump.

They can tell themselves, “I was right to vote for him before. I was right that he was a good president. But now he’s done something really wrong.”

In the short term, Barr’s remarks might encourage other Republicans, such as Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), to reject Trump’s cries of persecution. Republicans’ awareness of Trump’s unfitness (or at least his unelectability) could then swell. If so, Barr would have done something — finally! — in defense of our democracy and the rule of law.

Edited June 11, 2023 by homersapien

[Leftfield 3,421]

38 minutes ago, homersapien said:

More recently, he’s been open about Trump’s unfitness for office. “He does not have the discipline. He does not have the ability for strategic thinking and linear thinking — or setting priorities or how to get things done in the system,” Barr told a Cleveland group in early May. “It’s a horror show, you know, when he’s left to his own devices.”

I'm reading the book The Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis right now. Only about 100 pages in, but even with all we know it's still managed to surprise me at how ill-prepared Trump was. 

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

The President has the ultimate authority to declassify and retain documents. Pretty wild that the President is given the Commander in Chief title and has the unilateral authority to launch nuclear weapons but suddenly now having classified documents and retaining them is grounds for Obstruction and Espionage that started from a non-criminal engagement over the Presidential Records Act.

Political Midwits that detest Trump: This isn't political. It's about protecting democracy because Trump is a 'national security threat' like we've been saying since 2016 by parroting the same politicized National Security State officials that spied on Trump's campaign and investigated him over proven lies of Russian collusion.

Also Midwits: Hillary wasn't charged because she cooperated herp derp.....

So by that argument had Trump just cooperated and returned all the documents as requested then he wouldn't have been charged. That would mean it wasn't illegal for him to possess the documents in the first place.

This isn't about Trump being 'above the law'. It's about creating new legal theories meant to criminalize Trump's conduct.

[arein0 1,110]

27 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

The President has the ultimate authority to declassify and retain documents. Pretty wild that the President is given the Commander in Chief title and has the unilateral authority to launch nuclear weapons but suddenly now having classified documents and retaining them is grounds for Obstruction and Espionage that started from a non-criminal engagement over the Presidential Records Act.

Political Midwits that detest Trump: This isn't political. It's about protecting democracy because Trump is a 'national security threat' like we've been saying since 2016 by parroting the same politicized National Security State officials that spied on Trump's campaign and investigated him over proven lies of Russian collusion.

Also Midwits: Hillary wasn't charged because she cooperated herp derp.....

So by that argument had Trump just cooperated and returned all the documents as requested then he wouldn't have been charged. That would mean it wasn't illegal for him to possess the documents in the first place.

This isn't about Trump being 'above the law'. It's about creating new legal theories meant to criminalize Trump's conduct.

So in your opinion Trump is innocent?

[creed 1,819]

40 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

The President has the ultimate authority to declassify and retain documents. Pretty wild that the President is given the Commander in Chief title and has the unilateral authority to launch nuclear weapons but suddenly now having classified documents and retaining them is grounds for Obstruction and Espionage that started from a non-criminal engagement over the Presidential Records Act.

Political Midwits that detest Trump: This isn't political. It's about protecting democracy because Trump is a 'national security threat' like we've been saying since 2016 by parroting the same politicized National Security State officials that spied on Trump's campaign and investigated him over proven lies of Russian collusion.

Also Midwits: Hillary wasn't charged because she cooperated herp derp.....

So by that argument had Trump just cooperated and returned all the documents as requested then he wouldn't have been charged. That would mean it wasn't illegal for him to possess the documents in the first place.

This isn't about Trump being 'above the law'. It's about creating new legal theories meant to criminalize Trump's conduct.

The President has the ultimate authority to declassify and retain documents. 

I disagree with this. Documents, no matter the classification are owned by the citizens. Not the president, not the vice president, and not congress. We pay for these documents and we own them. The only thing a federal employee should take home after their last day on the job is what they brought with them on thier first day on the job. Everything else is "work related" and owned by us.

Edited June 11, 2023 by creed

[arein0 1,110]

6 hours ago, AU9377 said:

That said, I don't care what percentage agrees or disagrees with the factual analysis that I explained.  

It's unfortunate, but some people refuse to see that polls represent opinions not facts. You could take a poll during Galileos time and pretty much everyone would agree that the the sun revolved around the Earth. It doesn't mean that the sun revolved around the Earth until the public opinion changed to the Earth revolving around the sun.

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

7 minutes ago, arein0 said:

So in your opinion Trump is innocent?

These are criminal charges. What Trump did wasn't illegal. So by definition Trump is innocent of the charges yes.

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

9 minutes ago, creed said:

The President has the ultimate authority to declassify and retain documents. 

I disagree with this. Documents, not matter the classification are owned by the citizens. Not the president, not the vice president, and not congress. We pay for these documents and we own them. The only thing a federal employee should take home after their last day on the job is what they brought with them on thier first day on the job. Everything else is "work related" and owned by us.

Since 'we' own the documents then why can't we see them?

[arein0 1,110]

8 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

These are criminal charges. What Trump did wasn't illegal. So by definition Trump is innocent of the charges yes.

He wasn't president when this took place. How would you get the documents back when he refused to return them for the past 18 months? 

[creed 1,819]

19 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Since 'we' own the documents then why can't we see them?

I don't know. Who said you can't see them? Make a list and send it to your congressman. See what he says.

 

If it makes you feel any bettrer I would trust you with the documents over orange hair or basement man.

Edited June 11, 2023 by creed

[aubiefifty 18,444]

lol at you boys and secret docs. i had a top secret security clearance. even with this i had a briefcase locked as well as locked to my wrist when i had to deliver some info one night to Admiral KID. i drop his name because he was a legend. when russian trawlers got to close to his ships he would open fire shooting over their bow telling them the next one will not miss.

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

29 minutes ago, creed said:

The President has the ultimate authority to declassify and retain documents. 

I disagree with this. Documents, no matter the classification are owned by the citizens. Not the president, not the vice president, and not congress. We pay for these documents and we own them. The only thing a federal employee should take home after their last day on the job is what they brought with them on thier first day on the job. Everything else is "work related" and owned by us.

You can disagree all you'd like but the President does have the authority to declassify. Whether you think it's good or bad, The authority vested to the President by the Constitution is the source of the authority to declassify.

[aubiefifty 18,444]

Just now, creed said:

I don't know. Who said you can't see them? Make a list and send it to your congressman. See what he says.

because they do extensive background checks which are pricey. they went though my neighborhood asking about me.they went to my school. they checked police records. they went to my old church. it is odd because trump being the turd he is i bet they did not want him knowing stuff but had no choice because he won the election.