Congressman Assaults Citizen

[TexasTiger 14,521]

1 minute ago, AUFAN78 said:

I'd argue that half the country feels otherwise. 

A crazy third does.

[wdefromtx 3,714]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Protecting her from embarrassing questions on camera is not a legal defense. 

Except that’s not what all was happening. 

[AUFAN78 4,162]

4 minutes ago, Didba said:

All I’m saying is I wouldn’t want to try and argue self defense if my client had done what Higgins did. 
 

“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, when my client walked ten to fifteen feet towards the kid holding an iPhone high with both hands and then grabbed him a pushed the kid away from the crowd, my client did so in self defense.”  People don’t believe s*** like that.
 

If I was the kid’s attorney I’d just play the video in court to the jury state a quick rebuttal about being the instigator of the contact and sit back down. 

And the defense should play the Lee Zeldin video correct?

[I_M4_AU 9,043]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Protecting her from embarrassing questions on camera is not a legal defense. 

I would think not, but protecting her from a crazed kid who could have just stayed where he was to ask the question could be.

[AUFAN78 4,162]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

A crazy third does.

It is a bit more than a third and crazy is frankly a lazy argument. There is some merit to the skepticism. Unfortunately.

[TexasTiger 14,521]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I would think not, but protecting her from a crazed kid who could have just stayed where he was to ask the question could be.

They tried to shut him down altogether from asking her questions.

[TexasTiger 14,521]

5 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Except that’s not what all was happening. 

Tribalism is a helluva drug.

[I_M4_AU 9,043]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

He is….that’s what I’m calling self-defense though. 
 

That’s what it looks like to me…based on their previous conversation it was clear he had resentment towards her. So he wasn’t sure what he was going to trying to do when he started to try to get up to her. 

So, to me it would be more like Daniel Penny and the NY subway incident where Penny is protecting other passengers or, in the Lee Zeldin case, preventing someone attacking him on stage of a press conference.  I know Penny is claiming self defense and that maybe the only option to him, I’m not sure, but these lawyers on here are not seeing what really happened.

[I_M4_AU 9,043]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

They tried to shut him down altogether from asking her questions.

So, does that give him the right to advance on the speaker?  He was being heard right where he was.

[wdefromtx 3,714]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Tribalism is a helluva drug.

Then quit talking it. 

[TexasTiger 14,521]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

So, to me it would be more like Daniel Penny and the NY subway incident where Penny is protecting other passengers or, in the Lee Zeldin case, preventing someone attacking him on stage of a press conference.  I know Penny is claiming self defense and that maybe the only option to him, I’m not sure, but these lawyers on here are not seeing what really happened.

I don’t compare this to either of those.

[wdefromtx 3,714]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

I don’t compare this to either of those.

Cause thankfully it never got to get as far as what happened to Zeldin. 

[TexasTiger 14,521]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

So, does that give him the right to advance on the speaker?  He was being heard right where he was.

You’re trying to make the case he was an imminent threat to the speaker and Higgins acted heroically to prevent a violent assault on a fellow congressman. If those were the facts, the dude would have been arrested on the spot.

[TexasTiger 14,521]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

Cause thankfully it never got to get as far as what happened to Zeldin. 

Like preemptive war?

[wdefromtx 3,714]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Like preemptive war?

More like potential assault on a congresswoman. 

[wdefromtx 3,714]

3 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You’re trying to make the case he was an imminent threat to the speaker and Higgins acted heroically to prevent a violent assault on a fellow congressman. If those were the facts, the dude would have been arrested on the spot.

No one is trying to claim he is a hero. He just acted on what he saw as a threat to her. He’s no more a hero than the kid a victim. 

[TexasTiger 14,521]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

More like potential assault on a congresswoman. 

Only in the fevered dreams of the deeply partisan who will do back flips to defend excessive force for political purposes.

[TexasTiger 14,521]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

No one is trying to claim he is a hero. He just acted on what he saw as a threat to her. He’s no more a hero than the kid a victim. 

If he prevented the obvious harm that justified his use of force how can he not be a hero?

[I_M4_AU 9,043]

6 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You’re trying to make the case he was an imminent threat to the speaker and Higgins acted heroically to prevent a violent assault on a fellow congressman. If those were the facts, the dude would have been arrested on the spot.

The cops weren’t around, when the cops saw what was happening they did detain the kid.  What they didn’t do was arrest Higgins.

[I_M4_AU 9,043]

7 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Like preemptive war?

Peace through strength, you’re getting it.

[wdefromtx 3,714]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

If he prevented the obvious harm that justified his use of force how can he not be a hero?

Doing the right thing doesn’t mean you are a hero. 

[TexasTiger 14,521]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

The cops weren’t around, when the cops saw what was happening they did detain the kid.  What they didn’t do was arrest Higgins.

They said they wanted to hear his side of things. He wasn’t physically detained. Had they thought he was stopped from an imminent  attack on a congresswoman he wouldn’t have been allowed to walk away at the scene. Most police aren’t making the decision to arrest a congressman on the scene for something like that. The moment is over and charges can be decided later. Frankly, most assault by contacts aren’t prosecuted, but it was a clear violation of law.

[TexasTiger 14,521]

5 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Peace through strength, you’re getting it.

Worked like a charm in the Middle East. I get you, though. You love a strong armed autocrat.

[Didba 5,537]

37 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I get that, but that’s not what it looks like to me. He brought himself to the “danger” to put up a defense when he turned towards the podium. He wasn’t instigating to make contact as an aggressor. 

Defense of another is only available in certain situations, this isn't one of them.

[Didba 5,537]

38 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Isn’t Higgins protecting the speaker, Boebert, at this point.  I don’t think self defense is the point, it is protecting the speaker that this kid has resentment for as indicated by his questions.

Defense of another isn't here. has to be imminent threat of physical bodily harm. There wasn't one here.