Congressman Assaults Citizen

[I_M4_AU 9,043]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

Battery maybe if the kid felt offended. 

Obviously criminal as this clip will show:

Oops wrong one, I’ll look for the actual one.

[Leftfield 3,417]

6 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Dibda did and said you were incorrect thinking it was. 
 

Yes the open spot was to be up at the podium. He already had an open spot back with everyone else. 

Dibda referred to tort, and I said I was wrong about it being criminal. He still had no right to do it.

[homersapien 12,305]

9 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

You whole argument is predicated on you thinking he did this in bad faith. Why? Because he doesn’t share the same views as you? 
 

He was perfectly within his rights to do what he did and acted on his training as a peace officer. 
 

If what he did is so bad I guess we will see him end up in court and lose right? 

1) To be honest, I don't know what views he has.  What I saw was a MAGA going after a kid who was doing nothing more than trying to record some politicians.  And he clearly was acting from emotion, not from some sort of professional duty as an LEO might.

2) No he was not.

3) I would hope so, but I doubt it.  The kid would probably have to set up funding for bringing such a civil suit.  Had he been actually injured that would be more likely to happen.

None of the above changes the facts.

[homersapien 12,305]

8 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Apparently you are still drunk. And of course clueless. 

And you're still an idiot! 

[AUFAN78 4,162]

Just now, homersapien said:

And you're still an idiot! 

Says a drunk.   You get the point. 

[wdefromtx 3,714]

10 minutes ago, homersapien said:

1) To be honest, I don't know what views he has.  What I saw was a MAGA going after a kid who was doing nothing more than trying to record some politicians.  And he clearly was acting from emotion, not from some sort of professional duty as an LEO might.

2) No he was not.

3) I would hope so, but I doubt it.  The kid would probably have to set up funding for bringing such a civil suit.  Had he been actually injured that would be more likely to happen.

None of the above changes the facts.

That’s what I thought, you are basing your whole view of this from a political perspective. You state you don’t know his views but in the very next sentence call him a MAGA. 
 

Bottom line the kid was acting like an idiot and whether or not he was a real threat he he came across as a potential one and got removed by a congressman who is also a reserve peace officer. 
 

 

[Didba 5,537]

16 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

On the kid? We’ve established it’s not assault by Higgins in this thread. 

We haven’t really established anything. We discussed theoretically that it could or couldn’t be assault depending on the state’s laws. 
 

I’ll be honest with you, TexasTiger has been practicing law a whole lot longer than I have.

[Didba 5,537]

15 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Based on all this…the battery bar is set pretty low. 

pretty much what I was trying to tell you but it’s confusing. 

[TexasTiger 14,521]

34 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Battery maybe if the kid felt offended. 

“

About Assault Cases in DC

An assault is any unwanted physical contact or any attempt to make unwanted physical contact. A person does not need to be injured to be assaulted. You can be accused of an assault if you took a swing at someone but missed. You can be charged with assault if you place your hands on someone and do not actually injure them or leave any marks on them. There are a few different levels of assault in DC. A simple assault is any unwanted physical contact or attempted physical contact, and that is a misdemeanor.

https://washingtondccriminallawyer.net/dc-assault-lawyer/cases/#:~:text=There are a few different,and that is a felony.

This guy practices criminal law in DC.

[Didba 5,537]

41 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Dibda did and said you were incorrect thinking it was. 
 

Yes the open spot was to be up at the podium. He already had an open spot back with everyone else. 

Well, I was wrong. I was not aware of the criminal misdemeanor simple assault definition @TexasTiger cited, upon reading that I concur with his opinion that both civil and criminal assault are supported. 

[wdefromtx 3,714]

Just now, Didba said:

Well, I was wrong. I was not aware of the criminal misdemeanor simple assault definition @TexasTiger cited, upon reading that I concur with his opinion that both civil and criminal assault are supported. 

So it’s assault if you act defensively? 

[TexasTiger 14,521]

6 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

So it’s assault if you act defensively? 

Prove that as your defense. He can’t prove it on these facts. He went out of his way to run and grab the guy.

[Didba 5,537]

3 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Prove that as your defense. He can’t prove it on this facts. He went out of his way to run and grab the guy.

This is a great point. If you are the initial aggressor, self defense can no longer be claimed. There is argument to be made that the initial instigator of the contact was Higgins (the congressman, right?)

he went out of his way, across a crowd, to grab the kid holding his phone up high walking towards an empty area. Not a good look to claim self defense. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Didba

[wdefromtx 3,714]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Prove that as your defense. He can’t prove it on this facts. He went out of his way to run and grab the guy.

He can prove it. The fact we have multiple people on here the see it as him stopping him from going to the podium and also like you think he was just trying to run a grab him says  it’s not as cut and dry as you want it to be. 

[TexasTiger 14,521]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

He can prove it. The fact we have multiple people on here the see it as him stopping him from going to the podium and also like you think he was just trying to run a grab him says  it’s not as cut and dry as you want it to be. 

The law doesn’t bend to your political whims. How was Higgins threatened by a guy trying to get away from him?

[wdefromtx 3,714]

2 minutes ago, Didba said:

This is a great point. If you are the initial aggressor, self defense can no longer be claimed. There is argument to be made that the initial instigator of the contact was Higgins (the congressman, right?)

he went out of his way, across a crowd, to grab the kid holding his phone up high walking towards an empty area. Not a good look to claim self defense. 

When was initial contact made? Looks to me when he turned towards the podium and the although he was pacing him it was not until he turned to the podium that he grabbed and stopped him and started moving him backwards. 

[Didba 5,537]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

He can prove it. The fact we have multiple people on here the see it as him stopping him from going to the podium and also like you think he was just trying to run a grab him says  it’s not as cut and dry as you want it to be. 

If you bring yourself to the “danger” and then instigate the contact, you can’t claim self defense. 

[wdefromtx 3,714]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

The law doesn’t bend to your political whims. How was Higgins threatened by a guy trying to get away from him?

We wasn’t trying to get away from him he was trying to get around to get to the podium. 

[TexasTiger 14,521]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

We wasn’t trying to get away from him he was trying to get around to get to the podium. 

Is Higgins the podium?

[Didba 5,537]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

When was initial contact made? Looks to me when he turned towards the podium and the although he was pacing him it was not until he turned to the podium that he grabbed and stopped him and started moving him backwards. 

All I’m saying is I wouldn’t want to try and argue self defense if my client had done what Higgins did. 
 

“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, when my client walked ten to fifteen feet towards the kid holding an iPhone high with both hands and then grabbed him a pushed the kid away from the crowd, my client did so in self defense.”  People don’t believe s*** like that.
 

If I was the kid’s attorney I’d just play the video in court to the jury state a quick rebuttal about being the instigator of the contact and sit back down. 

[wdefromtx 3,714]

1 minute ago, Didba said:

If you bring yourself to the “danger” and then instigate the contact, you can’t claim self defense. 

I get that, but that’s not what it looks like to me. He brought himself to the “danger” to put up a defense when he turned towards the podium. He wasn’t instigating to make contact as an aggressor. 

[I_M4_AU 9,043]

Isn’t Higgins protecting the speaker, Boebert, at this point.  I don’t think self defense is the point, it is protecting the speaker that this kid has resentment for as indicated by his questions.

[AUFAN78 4,162]

9 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

The law doesn’t bend to your political whims.

I'd argue that half the country feels otherwise. 

[TexasTiger 14,521]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

Isn’t Higgins protecting the speaker, Boebert, at this point.  I don’t think self defense is the point, it is protecting the speaker that this kid has resentment for as indicated by his questions.

Protecting her from embarrassing questions on camera is not a legal defense. 

[wdefromtx 3,714]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

Isn’t Higgins protecting the speaker, Boebert, at this point.  I don’t think self defense is the point, it is protecting the speaker that this kid has resentment for as indicated by his questions.

He is….that’s what I’m calling self-defense though. 
 

That’s what it looks like to me…based on their previous conversation it was clear he had resentment towards her. So he wasn’t sure what he was going to trying to do when he started to try to get up to her.