A man who arrived at the scene of the Allen, Texas, mass shooting said he found a girl with 'no face' and a mother who died protecting her son from bullets

[aubiefifty 18,259]

6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Please explain how giving up law abiding citizen’s right to bare arms is going to prevent mass murders.

it is simple. if idiots do not have a gun they cannot kill anyone with it. it used to take a village to get things done but now it is only the "ME" crowd. this is on you and your party. you guys allow no common sense gun laws.  you guys pretty much do not care who owns a damn gun because it is a right.

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

5 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

And your last sentence illustrates the entire problem: somehow many in this society believe owning a deadly weapon, whether it has a use or not, should be allowed for just about anyone, despite the fact they would never trust many of those same people to work at a Taco Bell. 

Do you really look down on people that way?  I would guess it is hyperbole, but one never knows.  I just got a new driver’s license and it is good for 5 years and I got it on line.  I’m 73 and they have no idea if I am capable of driving a car at my age much less 5 years from now.

The government doesn’t want to spend time monitoring every person as to their mental state to drive, much less own a gun.  Not sure where this uproar will lead, but it won’t be banning Assault Weapons.  JMO of course.

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

8 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

now it is only the "ME" crowd.

The only thing I agree on with your statement.

 

9 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

if idiots do not have a gun they cannot kill anyone with it

Who gets to determine who is an idiot?

 

10 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you guys allow no common sense gun laws

We have enough laws, enforce them.

[arein0 1,105]

11 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

How many times does it have to be explained to you those laws are in place.  Making laws that punish gun manufacturers, putting high taxes on ammo and the like are not going to hurt the outlaws, it punishes and *infringes* on law abiding citizens.

If those laws were in place, we probably wouldn't be seeing as many mass shootings.

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/28/mass-shooting-nashville-guns-legally

 

The big picture: From 1966 to 2019, 77% of mass shooters purchased at least some of the weapons used in the shootings legally, per data compiled by the National Institute of Justice, a research agency of the Department of Justice.

Many mass shootings in the U.S. after 2019 have also underscored the same reality.

Illegal purchases were made by just 13% of mass shooters, per the data, which also notes that 32.5% of mass shooting cases could not be confirmed.

More than 80% of the assailants responsible for K-12 shootings stole their guns from family members, per the National Institute of Justice.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

The only thing I agree on with your statement.

 

Who gets to determine who is an idiot?

 

We have enough laws, enforce them.

we had strong mental health care until ronnie raygun and his boys cleared out the mental hospitals and pretty much did away with mental health care. gun laws have no teeth and you know it. hell some on the right were debating on giving felons their gun rights back. i posted this back a few months ago. i doubt you read it.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

1 minute ago, arein0 said:

If those laws were in place, we probably wouldn't be seeing as many mass shootings.

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/28/mass-shooting-nashville-guns-legally

 

The big picture: From 1966 to 2019, 77% of mass shooters purchased at least some of the weapons used in the shootings legally, per data compiled by the National Institute of Justice, a research agency of the Department of Justice.

Many mass shootings in the U.S. after 2019 have also underscored the same reality.

Illegal purchases were made by just 13% of mass shooters, per the data, which also notes that 32.5% of mass shooting cases could not be confirmed.

More than 80% of the assailants responsible for K-12 shootings stole their guns from family members, per the National Institute of Justice.

if you own a gun you should be responsible enough to make sure family or no one else can get access them without permission. ask anyone who has ever been in the military and around guns. people that leave weapons around for anyone to get their hands on should be liable for any deaths as well.

[arein0 1,105]

Just now, aubiefifty said:

if you own a gun you should be responsible enough to make sure family or no one else can get access them without permission. ask anyone who has ever been in the military and around guns. people that leave weapons around for anyone to get their hands on should be liable for any deaths as well.

If you own a gun, you should be held accountable for whatever happens to it, whether it was stolen, gifted, kids got access, or you used it personally. 

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

10 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

we had strong mental health care until ronnie raygun and his boys cleared out the mental hospitals and pretty much did away with mental health care. gun laws have no teeth and you know it. hell some on the right were debating on giving felons their gun rights back. i posted this back a few months ago. i doubt you read it.

Who gave gun right back to felon?

WASHINGTON — President Obama issued pardons on Friday to 17 convicted felons, making the first use of his clemency powers in his second term. Their offenses were largely small-scale crimes many years ago, and 12 of the people had not been sentenced to serve time in prison.

“As he has in past years, the president granted these individuals clemency because they have demonstrated genuine remorse and a strong commitment to being law-abiding, productive citizens and active members of their communities,” said Matt Lehrich, a White House spokesman.

Under the Constitution, the president has clemency powers to forgive convictions as a check and balance on the criminal justice system. For a felon who is already out of prison, a pardon can mean erasing the stigma and negative consequences associated with a criminal history, like restrictions on gun ownership, certain licenses and doing business with the government.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/02/us/politics/obama-pardons-17-felons-first-in-his-second-term.html

I believe Trump talked about it, but nothing came of it.

Mental health is an issue that need attention.  I will agree there.

[wdefromtx 3,611]

Until we forgo the right to bear arms situations like yesterday will never cease to exist. That’s the problem we face. By the constitution we have this right and it is not as easily taken from us as other countries. It’s a double edge sword we deal with in America. I’m tired of having to deal with this every other day, I hate the fact that it has happened….. I literally live just a few miles from where this happened.  I was literally driving by The Premium Outlets at Allen on 75 Expressway at the exact same time this happened. I had just dropped my daughter off at a roller rink just south of it. 
 

I’m pro gun, and I know it’s not the guns that cause this. But damn, this is getting rather old. 
 

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by wdefromtx

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

22 minutes ago, arein0 said:

The big picture: From 1966 to 2019, 77% of mass shooters purchased at least some of the weapons used in the shootings legally, per data compiled by the National Institute of Justice, a research agency of the Department of Justice.

How do you restrict gun sales to mass murders?  Do you have a question on the application to identify them and then refuse to sell them the gun?  That worked well with the president’s son.  Being a crack head, he just lied on the form and has yet to be prosecuted.

 

24 minutes ago, arein0 said:

More than 80% of the assailants responsible for K-12 shootings stole their guns from family members, per the National Institute of Justice.

I would not be against holding parent responsible for letting underaged children access to their guns unsupervised.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

13 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Who gave gun right back to felon?

WASHINGTON — President Obama issued pardons on Friday to 17 convicted felons, making the first use of his clemency powers in his second term. Their offenses were largely small-scale crimes many years ago, and 12 of the people had not been sentenced to serve time in prison.

“As he has in past years, the president granted these individuals clemency because they have demonstrated genuine remorse and a strong commitment to being law-abiding, productive citizens and active members of their communities,” said Matt Lehrich, a White House spokesman.

Under the Constitution, the president has clemency powers to forgive convictions as a check and balance on the criminal justice system. For a felon who is already out of prison, a pardon can mean erasing the stigma and negative consequences associated with a criminal history, like restrictions on gun ownership, certain licenses and doing business with the government.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/02/us/politics/obama-pardons-17-felons-first-in-his-second-term.html

I believe Trump talked about it, but nothing came of it.

Mental health is an issue that need attention.  I will agree there.

i said they brought it up. i did not say they did it. but a couple tried.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

11 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Until we forgo the right to bear arms situations like yesterday will never cease to exist. That’s the problem we face. By the constitution we have this right and it is not as easily taken from us as other countries. It’s a double edge sword we deal with in America. I’m tired of having to deal with this every other day, I hate the fact that it has happened….. I literally live just a few miles from where this happened.  I was literally driving by The Premium Outlets at Allen on 75 Expressway at the exact same time this happened. I had just dropped my daughter off at a roller rink just south of it. 
 

I’m pro gun, and I know it’s not the guns that cause this. But damn, this is getting rather old. 
 

 

Former Army officer and witness to Texas mall shooting who calls himself a 'gun lover' says mental health isn't the problem: 'We need more gun control'

Katie Balevic

~3 minutes

---

 

Emergency personnel work the scene of a shooting at Allen Premium Outlets on May 6, 2023 in Allen, Texas.Stewart F. House/Getty Images

 

• Former Army officer who rushed to scene of mass shooting in Allen, Texas says US needs gun control.

• Steven Spainhouer said he's a "gun lover" but that "this is going to keep happening" without stricter laws.

• He added that it was a gun, not mental health issues, that "killed these people."

A witness to the deadly mass shooting at a Texas mall on Saturday said he's a "gun lover." Then he called for more gun control.

Steven Spainhouer, who said he is both a former police officer and a former Army officer, rushed to the scene of the shooting on Saturday, arriving even before emergency responders.

"When you get hit with an automatic weapon fire at close range, there is no opportunity for survival," Spainhouer told MSNBC. "I don't know what the gunman's problem was, but it wasn't mental health that killed these people. It was an automatic rifle with bullets."

A gunman opened fire inside Allen Premium Outlets on Saturday, killing eight people and injuring seven others before a police officer who happened to be nearby shot and killed him. Police have not yet identified the gunman or his motivations.

In a statement calling for stricter gun regulations, President Joe Biden said the gunman used an "AR-15 style assault weapon."

The shooting in a town north of Dallas came about a week after five people were killed in a shooting in Cleveland, a Texas town north of Houston.

Politicians resistant to gun control have blamed the prevalence and severity of American mass shootings on mental health – despite reports that only a small portion of violence is tied to mental illnesses.

"I'm a gun lover. I have guns. I'm a former police officer. I'm a former Army officer. But these M-4s, AR-15s, they've got to get off the streets, or this is going to keep happening," Spainhouer said on Sunday. "We've got to stop that at some point."

"All the politicians are going to make statements. They're going to offer prayers and condolences," Spainhouer said. "Prayers and condolences won't bring these people back. We need some action in our legislatures at the federal and state level for better gun control. And I'm saying that as someone who loves guns."

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

Just now, aubiefifty said:

i said they brought it up. i did not say they did it. but a couple tried.

Obama did it. 

[aubiefifty 18,259]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

Obama did it. 

whataboutism sucks until you need it right?

[aubiefifty 18,259]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Obama did it. 

politifact.com

 

PolitiFact - Are Republicans trying to allow convicted felons to own guns?

José Serrano stated on September 12, 2017 in a tweet:

4–5 minutes

---

Rep. José Serrano, D-Bronx, said legislation he’s against would allow convicted felons to own guns.

That’s not allowed under federal law for most people with a felony. Serrano said a proposed amendment could change that.

"Now Republicans want to restore #gunrights to felons - something they lose after criminal conviction - CJS bills have prevented for 24 years," Serrano said in a tweet.

Serrano was referring to a bill that allocates funds to the U.S. Departments of Justice, Commerce and other agencies.

He explained his position when the amendment came up for a vote in the House.

"I rise in strong opposition to this very misguided amendment," Serrano said. "This amendment would allow felons and other dangerous individuals to try to regain the ability to own guns by sending an application to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives."

The amendment was agreed to by a voice vote so there’s no record of who voted which way. The bill it’s tied to has passed the House, but not the Senate.

Democrats and Republicans are typically divided when it comes to gun control. But would a Republican amendment allow felons to buy guns?

The amendment

Rep. Ken Buck, R-Colorado, sponsored the amendment.

The amendment would give the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives funding to review applications from people who want to own a gun but legally can’t under federal law.

People who have served more than a year in prison are among that group. A felony conviction typically comes with a minimum prison sentence of one year. Anyone convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence charge or received a dishonorable discharge from the military is also not allowed to own a gun.

The ATF has the power to restore gun rights to those people.

Federal statute says the bureau may do so if they believe the applicant "will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest."

But Congress has denied the bureau the funding for such a program.

Congress since 1993 has said no funds given to the agency "shall be available to investigate or act upon applications for relief from Federal firearms disabilities." That’s the legal term for someone who is not allowed to own a gun.

The amendment would allow the agency to dip into federal funds to consider those applications.

What it means

The amendment does not give people with criminal convictions free access to firearms. Each person would be evaluated individually by the ATF.

There’s no guarantee that an applicant would be granted gun rights. If someone was convicted of a violent crime, for example, the agency may consider the person to be dangerous to public safety and deny the request.

Other criminal convictions may be seen as a lesser threat to public safety. Someone convicted of embezzlement in the past may be judged differently than someone with a violent felony conviction.

"Congressman Buck’s amendment allows the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to once again process petitions from citizens for the restoration of their Second Amendment rights," said Kyle Huwa, Buck’s spokesperson. "This petition process is already established under federal statute. The amendment makes no determination on the substance of the petitions."

Our ruling

Serrano said Republicans want to restore gun rights to felons.

An amendment proposed by a Republican congressman would allow people who have been stripped of their gun rights by the government to ask for them back. That’s not limited to people with a felony and it’s not guaranteed they will be approved.

Serrano’s statement is accurate but needs clarification. We rate it Mostly True.

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

1 minute ago, aubiefifty said:

whataboutism sucks until you need it right?

The truth hurts sometimes.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

The truth hurts sometimes.

you would not know the truth if it punched you in the mouth. you do not get to call me and others out and still do it yourself. it shows what a richard you are.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

45 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The only thing I agree on with your statement.

 

Who gets to determine who is an idiot?

 

We have enough laws, enforce them.

history will show us.

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

2 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you would not know the truth if it punched you in the mouth. you do not get to call me and others out and still do it yourself. it shows what a richard you are.

I disagree with your position.  Man up.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I disagree with your position.  Man up.

.this means you disagree with titan and the board rules. i understand.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

12 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The truth hurts sometimes.

maybe but since i think you are a shameless liar on most subjects you will never hurt me. lets make this very clear. plus YOU voted for trump............

Edited May 7, 2023 by aubiefifty

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

1 minute ago, aubiefifty said:

.this means you disagree with titan and the board rules. i understand.

I don’t disagree, it’s his board. I accepted it.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

I don’t disagree, it’s his board. I accepted it.

then why do you still do it?

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

1 minute ago, aubiefifty said:

maybe but since i think you are a shameless liar on most subjects you will never hurt me. lets make this very clear.

I didn't hurt you, the truth did.

[aubiefifty 18,259]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

I didn't hurt you, the truth did.

when you start telling some truths get back with me.