Alabama and Woke.............

[aubiefifty 18,259]

Education program – one of the very few education bright spots in a state so known for school failure that it has to bribe companies to move here – to resign.

Which means early Childhood Education Secretary Barbara Cooper was fired, of course. For using a standard and nationally accredited teachers’ manual that included references to (gasp) systemic racism, (egad) white privilege, and (OMG) families that don’t have a standard mom and dad and two kids and a dog.

That manual said horrid things. Like how kids and families are different and you should probably be nice to them anyway. Imagine.

It was scary, because it might remind teachers that a real world exists beyond the white walls and whitewash of the Alabama Legislature.

So Rep. Jamie Kiel, R-Russellville, got to be appalled. And applauded by his ilk. Ivey got to go back to sleep. And Cooper got the boot.

But that was just the start.

As AL.com’s Rebecca Griesbach reported, the Alabama Department of Early Childhood Education then began to examine its early learning and development standards. And by examine I mean the department went at it with a machete.

Those dedicated educators chopped out 10 references to “equity,” a clearly subversive word meaning “justice according to natural law or right,” which is not welcome or fitting for Alabama schools or public buildings or brains.

They looked at their work. And it was surely good. For justice removed is injustice ignored in Alabama. It’s what we are built on, and what we must keep from our children.

These public servants searched and searched, and chopped and chopped more fiercely, as if clear-cutting old forest for a suburban stripmall. By the end they cut 60 of the 65 references to equity – including a whole chapter – right out of the Alabama education standards.

Surely, like God on the sixth day, they looked at all they had done, and, behold, found it very good. They’d whittled all those references to equity, all those notions of kindness and acceptance and attempts to understand people who are different, to a number even a state legislator can count on his fingers.

They cut references to equity from 65 to 5 – a 92.3 percent drop, if you’re counting. Which is the most Alabama thing ever.

We have normalized meanness and intolerance and doubled down on delusion, in a state that wrote a constitution – the politicians said it out loud, you know – to keep Black people away from the polls and in their place.

We have made examining that sort of history in schools illegal, and talk of it a firing offense, in a state that for generations used school textbooks as propaganda to tell students how slaves really liked being slaves, that white masters were really just looking out for their interests.

We’re full tilt into an Alabama inquisition, where compassion is ridiculed and common decency demonized.

We do the thing that represents us so well.

We edit equity right out of our expectations. Because we don’t want students or their parents to see the truth.

We remove equity from our schools. There is no place for compassion there, or examination of ourselves.

It is so Alabama. Where we break what is good – like our early childhood program – just to pander for what is bad.

John Archibald is a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for AL.com.

 

those who will not learn from the past are are doomed to repeat it over and over. this is in my humble opinion about as racist as it gets.

[wdefromtx 3,611]

Without knowing exactly what was in these books it is hard to tell if there is anything that warranted her being ousted. Given that this is for preschoolers you have to construct how to talk about this stuff carefully because how much they can really understand at that age. 

Just an excerpt:

Ivey was concerned that the book tells teachers there are “larger systemic forces that perpetuate systems of White privilege” and that “the United States is built on systemic and structural racism.”

If that is in what they are trying to teach 3,4 and 5 year old children then I feel Ivey has a point. I do not think a pre-k kid is going to have the capacity to understand this, not to mention whatever slant the teacher adds or tries to take away from it.

 

[aubiefifty 18,259]

43 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Without knowing exactly what was in these books it is hard to tell if there is anything that warranted her being ousted. Given that this is for preschoolers you have to construct how to talk about this stuff carefully because how much they can really understand at that age. 

Just an excerpt:

Ivey was concerned that the book tells teachers there are “larger systemic forces that perpetuate systems of White privilege” and that “the United States is built on systemic and structural racism.”

If that is in what they are trying to teach 3,4 and 5 year old children then I feel Ivey has a point. I do not think a pre-k kid is going to have the capacity to understand this, not to mention whatever slant the teacher adds or tries to take away from it.

 

i might agree with you on the age but other than that it is a bad look in my opinion. does it not cross your mind that they are saying racism does not exist? have i read this wrong?

[homersapien 12,244]

57 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Without knowing exactly what was in these books it is hard to tell if there is anything that warranted her being ousted. Given that this is for preschoolers you have to construct how to talk about this stuff carefully because how much they can really understand at that age. 

Just an excerpt:

Ivey was concerned that the book tells teachers there are “larger systemic forces that perpetuate systems of White privilege” and that “the United States is built on systemic and structural racism.”

If that is in what they are trying to teach 3,4 and 5 year old children then I feel Ivey has a point. I do not think a pre-k kid is going to have the capacity to understand this, not to mention whatever slant the teacher adds or tries to take away from it.

 

What is that an "excerpt" from???  Clearly not the manual itself.  It sounds like it's Ivey's opinion.

Second, telling teachers that - which is doubtful anyway since we don't know where it came from - is not the same as teaching it to students.

Third, the question is how factual is it.  I think it is at least arguable. But that's another debate.

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by homersapien

[wdefromtx 3,611]

3 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i might agree with you on the age but other than that it is a bad look in my opinion. does it not cross your mind that they are saying racism does not exist? have i read this wrong?

Saying that this is not appropriate to teach to pre-k kids is widely different than saying racism does not exist. Also, I don't know the exact context of what the manual says so like I said I am basing it on if that excerpt is indicative of the manual. 

It is one thing to teach pre-k kids about differences, respect and touch on racism or teach them that it is ok for families to not have a "traditional" family. But, to try to teach them about systemic racism, white privilege, etc is past what a preschooler is going to be capable of really understanding. 

[homersapien 12,244]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

Saying that this is not appropriate to teach to pre-k kids is widely different than saying racism does not exist. Also, I don't know the exact context of what the manual says so like I said I am basing it on if that excerpt is indicative of the manual. 

It is one thing to teach pre-k kids about differences, respect and touch on racism or teach them that it is ok for families to not have a "traditional" family. But, to try to teach them about systemic racism, white privilege, etc is past what a preschooler is going to be capable of really understanding. 

That's a big assumption.

Where did you get that quote?

[wdefromtx 3,611]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That's a big assumption.

Where did you get that quote?

It was an article linked in the AL.com article. And no it is not directly from the manual, wo don't know exactly what it says. That is why I prefaced it with if what they have said is indicative of the manual. Then yes, I think there is merit to what she is saying. 

I would like to see the manual. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by wdefromtx

[aubiefifty 18,259]

3 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Saying that this is not appropriate to teach to pre-k kids is widely different than saying racism does not exist. Also, I don't know the exact context of what the manual says so like I said I am basing it on if that excerpt is indicative of the manual. 

It is one thing to teach pre-k kids about differences, respect and touch on racism or teach them that it is ok for families to not have a "traditional" family. But, to try to teach them about systemic racism, white privilege, etc is past what a preschooler is going to be capable of really understanding. 

i agree with the age.

[homersapien 12,244]

13 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

It was an article linked in the AL.com article. And no it is not directly from the manual, wo don't know exactly what it says. That is why I prefaced it with if what they have said is indicative of the manual. Then yes, I think there is merit to what she is saying. 

I would like to see the manual. 

By "they" do you mean Gov. Ivey? 

I'd like to see the manual also.  Otherwise, we don't know if there is "merit to what she is saying", right?

This reminds me of the "teaching CRT to K-3 kids", which is simply BS.

Edited April 28, 2023 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,881]

Alabama may be dumb but at least it wont ever be WOKE. 

 

Good to know Kay Ivey values beliefs and being on the "right" side of the Culture War more than she does actual outcomes and job performance. 

 

[wdefromtx 3,611]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

By "they" do you mean Gov. Ivey? 

I'd like to see the manual also.  Otherwise, we don't know if there is "merit to what she is saying", right?

This reminds me of the "teaching CRT to K-3 kids", which is simply BS.

I mean Ivey or whoever is saying it. 

Correct, we do not know if there is merit.....I have never said otherwise. Before I jump on board criticizing her or siding with her I would like to see what is really going on. I have seen cases where there has been "woke" (see my response in another thread if you need to know what I count as woke) ideas trying to indoctrinate kids that need to be called out and the left tries to frame it as the right trying to deny racism, LGBT issues exist. Having said that I have seen where some of the right has tried to actually stop the discussion of such issues at all which is wrong and idiotic because ignoring it won't help us progress. 

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

I mean Ivey or whoever is saying it. 

Correct, we do not know if there is merit.....I have never said otherwise. Before I jump on board criticizing her or siding with her I would like to see what is really going on. I have seen cases where there has been "woke" (see my response in another thread if you need to know what I count as woke) ideas trying to indoctrinate kids that need to be called out and the left tries to frame it as the right trying to deny racism, LGBT issues exist. Having said that I have seen where some of the right has tried to actually stop the discussion of such issues at all which is wrong and idiotic because ignoring it won't help us progress. 

It appears Ivey is doing what DeSantis did in Florida with the African American AP class except in preschool.  Here is another article on the same subject:

The book is a guide for early childhood educators. It is not a curriculum taught to children.

The governor’s office, in a press release, cited two examples from the book — one discussing white privilege and that “the United States is built on systemic and structural racism” and another that Ivey’s office claimed teaches LGBTQ+ inclusion to 4-year-olds. Those sections, according to a copy of the 881-page book obtained by The Associated Press, discuss combating bias and making sure that all children feel welcome.

“Early childhood programs also serve and welcome families that represent many compositions. Children from all families (e.g., single parent, grandparent-led, foster, LGBTQIA+) need to hear and see messages that promote equality, dignity, and worth,” the book states.

The section on structural racism states that “systemic and structural racism … has permeated every institution and system through policies and practices that position people of color in oppressive, repressive, and menial positions. The early education system is not immune to these forces.” It says preschool is one place where children “begin to see how they are represented in society” and that the classroom should be a place of “affirmation and healing.”

NAEYC is a national accrediting board that works to provide high-quality education materials and resources for young children. In an emailed response to The Associated Press, the group did not address Ivey’s statements but said the book is a research-based resource for educators.

Cooper is a member of the NAEYC board.

https://www.wabe.org/alabama-governor-ousts-a-top-education-official-over-a-books-woke-concepts-on-race/

Alabama has banned the teaching of CRT in the Alabama curriculum K-12 and Gender Identity in K-5

It seems Cooper was trying to back door the teachings.

There is a big difference between teaching history and teaching an ideology about that history especially to pre-school children.

[arein0 1,105]

34 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

It appears Ivey is doing what DeSantis did in Florida with the African American AP class except in preschool.  Here is another article on the same subject:

The book is a guide for early childhood educators. It is not a curriculum taught to children.

The governor’s office, in a press release, cited two examples from the book — one discussing white privilege and that “the United States is built on systemic and structural racism” and another that Ivey’s office claimed teaches LGBTQ+ inclusion to 4-year-olds. Those sections, according to a copy of the 881-page book obtained by The Associated Press, discuss combating bias and making sure that all children feel welcome.

“Early childhood programs also serve and welcome families that represent many compositions. Children from all families (e.g., single parent, grandparent-led, foster, LGBTQIA+) need to hear and see messages that promote equality, dignity, and worth,” the book states.

The section on structural racism states that “systemic and structural racism … has permeated every institution and system through policies and practices that position people of color in oppressive, repressive, and menial positions. The early education system is not immune to these forces.” It says preschool is one place where children “begin to see how they are represented in society” and that the classroom should be a place of “affirmation and healing.”

NAEYC is a national accrediting board that works to provide high-quality education materials and resources for young children. In an emailed response to The Associated Press, the group did not address Ivey’s statements but said the book is a research-based resource for educators.

Cooper is a member of the NAEYC board.

https://www.wabe.org/alabama-governor-ousts-a-top-education-official-over-a-books-woke-concepts-on-race/

Alabama has banned the teaching of CRT in the Alabama curriculum K-12 and Gender Identity in K-5

It seems Cooper was trying to back door the teachings.

There is a big difference between teaching history and teaching an ideology about that history especially to pre-school children.

So what is the issue with this? This isn't the curriculum, right?

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

9 minutes ago, arein0 said:

So what is the issue with this? This isn't the curriculum, right?

If you teach something, what you teach is your curriculum.  Alabama laws says you can’t teach it and Cooper was trying to back door it in pre-school.  She got caught and no longer has a job.  It appears Ivey saw right through what Cooper was doing.

Edited April 28, 2023 by I_M4_AU

[arein0 1,105]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

If you teach something, what you teach is your curriculum.  Alabama laws says you can’t teach it and Cooper was trying to back door it in pre-school.  She got caught and no longer has a job.  It appears Ivey saw right threw what Cooper was doing.

Can you quote which part specifically is the problem? I'm too dense and don't really see a problem with what was in the original quote.

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

5 minutes ago, arein0 said:

Can you quote which part specifically is the problem? I'm too dense and don't really see a problem with what was in the original quote.

From the article:  one discussing white privilege and that “the United States is built on systemic and structural racism” and another that Ivey’s office claimed teaches LGBTQ+ inclusion to 4-year-olds. 

The AP sugar coats it, but the message is not what the State of Alabama has ruled.  Neither should be *taught* to 4 year olds.

[arein0 1,105]

43 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

From the article:  one discussing white privilege and that “the United States is built on systemic and structural racism” and another that Ivey’s office claimed teaches LGBTQ+ inclusion to 4-year-olds. 

The AP sugar coats it, but the message is not what the State of Alabama has ruled.  Neither should be *taught* to 4 year olds.

That quote you referenced isnt from the manual. The quote from the book regarding LGBTQ is promoting inclusion. Which to me reads as treating everyone respect and as equals. 

“Early childhood programs also serve and welcome families that represent many compositions. Children from all families (e.g., single parent, grandparent-led, foster, LGBTQIA+) need to hear and see messages that promote equality, dignity, and worth,” the book states.

I don't think this quote would have been used had it left out the examples of families. That's the only time LGBTQ is even mentioned in this quote.

For the "CRT" section, I will agree that parts I thought were strange, specifically the last part in quotes. The rest reads as information specifically for the teachers to have awareness to promote equality. 

The section on structural racism states that “systemic and structural racism … has permeated every institution and system through policies and practices that position people of color in oppressive, repressive, and menial positions. The early education system is not immune to these forces.” It says preschool is one place where children “begin to see how they are represented in society” and that the classroom should be a place of “affirmation and healing.”

 

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

3 hours ago, arein0 said:

That quote you referenced isnt from the manual. The quote from the book regarding LGBTQ is promoting inclusion. Which to me reads as treating everyone respect and as equals. 

“Early childhood programs also serve and welcome families that represent many compositions. Children from all families (e.g., single parent, grandparent-led, foster, LGBTQIA+) need to hear and see messages that promote equality, dignity, and worth,” the book states.

I don't think this quote would have been used had it left out the examples of families. That's the only time LGBTQ is even mentioned in this quote.

For the "CRT" section, I will agree that parts I thought were strange, specifically the last part in quotes. The rest reads as information specifically for the teachers to have awareness to promote equality. 

The section on structural racism states that “systemic and structural racism … has permeated every institution and system through policies and practices that position people of color in oppressive, repressive, and menial positions. The early education system is not immune to these forces.” It says preschool is one place where children “begin to see how they are represented in society” and that the classroom should be a place of “affirmation and healing.”

 

CRT is specifically prohibited in Alabama schools K-12 and Cooper who is on the board of NAEYC has taken upon herself to include it in pre-school.  Does the Alabama legislature have to specifically ban if from pre-school to get the point across?  Don’t teach this ideology.

[arein0 1,105]

11 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

CRT is specifically prohibited in Alabama schools K-12 and Cooper who is on the board of NAEYC has taken upon herself to include it in pre-school.  Does the Alabama legislature have to specifically ban if from pre-school to get the point across?  Don’t teach this ideology.

But they aren't teaching it. This manual is for the teachers. Just because it's in the manual doesn't mean it is intended to be taught. Manuals are extra resources specifically for the teacher, the curriculum is what is being taught, and there is no mention of the curriculum.

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

18 minutes ago, arein0 said:

But they aren't teaching it. This manual is for the teachers. Just because it's in the manual doesn't mean it is intended to be taught. Manuals are extra resources specifically for the teacher, the curriculum is what is being taught, and there is no mention of the curriculum.

If so, why was Cooper fired?  Just because the manual said it was only a guide for teachers doesn’t mean the teachers were not teaching it.  Evidently they were.

[arein0 1,105]

32 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

If so, why was Cooper fired?  

A couple of things off the top of my head:

To gain clout with people like you that will believe just about anything that the right says the left is doing / wants to do.

Makes it look like they are doing a good job fighting an imaginary culture war that is made up by the right.

Makes it easier to scare voters into voting with them. It's the same thing with DeSantis and the math books that "had CRT." 

 

[homersapien 12,244]

14 hours ago, arein0 said:

A couple of things off the top of my head:

To gain clout with people like you that will believe just about anything that the right says the left is doing / wants to do.

Makes it look like they are doing a good job fighting an imaginary culture war that is made up by the right.

Makes it easier to scare voters into voting with them. It's the same thing with DeSantis and the math books that "had CRT." 

 

Seems rather obvious doesn't it? 

The conservative reaction to "CRT" and "Wokism" reminds me of the hysteria over the McCarthy communist threat back in the 50's and 60's, only worse.  Conservatives just can't exist without an existential threat from the left, even if only imagined in their little fear-ridden minds. 

DeSantis is the modern day McCarthy.  Hopefully - and probably - he'll wind up similarly as McCarthy did.  A footnote to history.

And Ivey is just a second-rate suck-up who is catering to useful fools.

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 8,578]

8 hours ago, homersapien said:

The conservative reaction to "CRT" and "Wokism" reminds me of the hysteria over the McCarthy communist threat back in the 50's and 60's, only worse. 

The hysteria seems to be with people like you. Parents simply think some things their children should be introduced to should not come from school curriculum. 

[arein0 1,105]

51 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

The hysteria seems to be with people like you. Parents simply think some things their children should be introduced to should not come from school curriculum. 

Parents don't think equality and inclusion should be practiced in school?

[autigeremt 7,214]

I referenced this several times in the recent past but kept getting pushback from the left on this board.