Farmington Police officers went to the wrong house and killed the man who came to the door with a gun

[arein0 1,106]

35 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Mental health issues are rampant in the homeless communities.  The 1% of mass shootings (schools, banks, shopping centers, etc.) are comprised of mental health issues.  The rest are crime.  You can’t really conflate the two IMO.

Taking out as many as they can before getting shot is associated with the above category (the 1%).  The criminal wants to survive to rob another day.  Whether it be for drugs, money or other motives they want the easiest targets, you know, the gun free zones.  The gangs just shoot indiscriminately and hope they hit their target.  There is no morals on display with those people.  Will the police investigate to see where they get their guns?

I believe criminal activity and mass shootings are 2 different problems. General crime generally happens because of poverty. Gangs usually happen because they are the only thing that is giving the kids attention in their life, so they feel loyal to them. Also, there have been studies done and more times than not crime is usually hyperlocal in a city. Like a block or one street is usually where the majority of crime takes place.

For illegally obtained guns, they are more times than not stolen

35 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

How long do you think a psych eval lasts?  If you get an evaluation when you’re 18 are you good for life?  If you think you were born in the wrong body are you mentally fit to own a gun?  How about a racist?  The guy in Austin Texas was found guilty of murder and in the prosecution's case they leaned heavily on his racist background even though both the shooter and victim were white.

Imo a psych exam shouldn't last too long, maybe a month or until you buy the gun depending what happens first. I would leave the last 2 questions to the psychologist, since I'm not an expert. 

35 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Gun shops offer classes in gun safety and concealed carry.  If you are serious about owning a gun you take advantage.  Would you require a safety class if you already own a gun and purchase another or is this just for new owners?

Thats one of the reasons I think it should be required pre purchase. The serious gunowners, aka good guys, are already taking the class, so it wouldnt impact them. All it would do is teach the new gunowners that wouldn't normally take advantage and are usually the ones that have their guns stolen. It would also prevent "emotional purchase" that leads to mass shootings / some homicides because they wont be able to buy the gun right away. 

I would probably require a longer 1st time gun owener course and for every gun after require some sort of shorter refresher course.

[DKW 86 7,921]

On 4/14/2023 at 10:33 AM, arein0 said:

If that were the case, then you wouldn't see 7 of the top 10 shootings happen in states with lowered gun restrictions. You wouldn't see 8 of the top 10 allow firearms / have armed guards.

Since are saying this is wrong, would you prefer to see a map of deaths in the US? Fair warning, it still shows an increase in places with lowered gun restrictions. 

And "Gun Deaths" statistics always include suicides with handguns which usually make up half or more of all gun deaths. Why do you think they do that? It is disinformation used by one side to exaggerate their claims.  

[arein0 1,106]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

And "Gun Deaths" statistics always include suicides with handguns which usually make up half or more of all gun deaths. Why do you think they do that? It is disinformation used by one side to exaggerate their claims.  

Why is that disinformation? It is still a death from a gun is it not? It is still people that are not mentally stable having access to guns. And also just looking at the sites disclaimer, they do not include suicides in the all death geolocation since they only get an aggregate from the CDC.

Suicides are collected through the CDC and, because of privacy and CDC policy, they are only available at this time as an aggregate number, without detail. Therefore, there is not an associated table with our normal GVA level of granularity and geolocation . We are working to resolve this but it will be at some point in the future and not under our control. Sorry for this inconvenience.

https:/www.gunviolencearchive.org/explainer

[DKW 86 7,921]

48 minutes ago, arein0 said:

Why is that disinformation? It is still a death from a gun is it not? It is still people that are not mentally stable having access to guns. And also just looking at the sites disclaimer, they do not include suicides in the all death geolocation since they only get an aggregate from the CDC.

Suicides are collected through the CDC and, because of privacy and CDC policy, they are only available at this time as an aggregate number, without detail. Therefore, there is not an associated table with our normal GVA level of granularity and geolocation . We are working to resolve this but it will be at some point in the future and not under our control. Sorry for this inconvenience.

https:/www.gunviolencearchive.org/explainer

So you are saying that in the year 2023, with all the advances we have made in information discernment and data mining we still cant get the govt to give us clean numbers and this is okay to some folks in this world. Sad...

Fact: We actually know the numbers and have for years. 

Suicides by year in the United States

[I_M4_AU 8,988]

I was reliably told that this sort of thing only happens in the US:

A shooting at a Guanajuato resort in Mexico Saturday left seven dead, including a 7-year-old child, authorities said. 

Mexican officials said a band of gunmen invaded the La Palma resort in the Cortazar municipality and shot the vacationers at the swimming pool. Authorities said three women and three men died, including a child, as well as an eighth person who was seriously wounded. The identities of the victims have not yet been released. 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexico-resort-shooting-leaves-seven-dead-including-child?intcmp=tw_fnc

[arein0 1,106]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

So you are saying that in the year 2023, with all the advances we have made in information discernment and data mining we still cant get the govt to give us clean numbers and this is okay to some folks in this world. Sad...

Fact: We actually know the numbers and have for years. 

Suicides by year in the United States

I don't think you actually read what I wrote. It also sounds like you are phishing for reasons to discredit this site. First was the assumption that it included suicide data and when proven that it doesn't, it is a crime that they don't include suicide data.

Also there is this thing called HIPAA that protects individuals PHI for 50 years after death. This includes suicides. What does this mean? You can not report information that includes someone's PHI or report enough information that will allow someone the ability to determine someone's PHI. In the case of the map that you are questioning, they will never be able to get the location data because it will provide someone the ability to determine who it was (PHI). 

The example you provided is aggregate data provided from the CDC. They are able to report this info out because you cannot use it to determine any PHI.

If you are still curious about what the CDC provides in regards to suicide data, you can look here.

https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html

[DKW 86 7,921]

And still the suicide data is included in the criminal stats...

[DKW 86 7,921]

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/officer-shot

PUBLISHED DATE: April 16, 2023

• Total Number of GV Deaths - ALL Causes⁴ 
   12,257
• Homicide/Murder/Unintentional/DGU¹ 
   5,261
• Suicide³ 
   6,996
• Total Number of Injuries¹ 
   9,532
• Mass Shootings² 
   163
• Mass Murders² 
   15
• Number of Children (age 0-11)¹ 
  Killed 75
•  
  Injured 173
• Number of Teens (age 12-17)¹ 
  Killed 438
•  
  Injured 1,053
• Officer Involved Incident¹ 
  Killed 17
• Officer Killed or Injured 
  Injured 113
• Officer Involved Incident¹ 
  Killed 407
• Subject-Suspect Killed or Injured 
  Injured 242
• Defensive Use² 
   306
• Unintentional Shooting² 
   438
• Murder/Suicides Incidents² 
   207

[arein0 1,106]

31 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

And still the suicide data is included in the criminal stats...

You are not listening and its obvious you are grasping at straws.

You can have those stats at a high level, aka totals. But the at granularity level that the map view shows, it would be impossible to show without breaking HIPAA regulations. That is what their statement is about.

They do report suicides in their aggregate total as you have shown. Is the aggregate breakdown confusing? Apparently since you are confused. The top row shows the total for all deaths involving a gun. Then they show the breakdown of gun deaths and show the deaths by crime/etc and suicides are broken out. You can add up the suicide numbers and the crime numbers and verify that all gun death incidents are counted correctly. I'm not sure how or what you are confused about. 

[DKW 86 7,921]

16 hours ago, arein0 said:

You are not listening and its obvious you are grasping at straws.

You can have those stats at a high level, aka totals. But the at granularity level that the map view shows, it would be impossible to show without breaking HIPAA regulations. That is what their statement is about.

They do report suicides in their aggregate total as you have shown. Is the aggregate breakdown confusing? Apparently since you are confused. The top row shows the total for all deaths involving a gun. Then they show the breakdown of gun deaths and show the deaths by crime/etc and suicides are broken out. You can add up the suicide numbers and the crime numbers and verify that all gun death incidents are counted correctly. I'm not sure how or what you are confused about. 

You are the one confused here. I was at no point discussing "where" a suicide happened nor anything specific about any suicide map. I was speaking ONLY in larger numbers and that was my entire point. There are aggregate numbers available. People trying to feather their total numbers are the ones adding in, or failing to remove suicides from the total numbers of so-called "Gun Deaths." Again, most years, suicides make up about half or more of the total number of "Gun Deaths." No one cares about anything in the Hipaa data. The numbers I just showed were for 2022 and 2023. The suicide info is there and being shared openly. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by DKW 86

[CoffeeTiger 5,915]

22 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I was reliably told that this sort of thing only happens in the US:

A shooting at a Guanajuato resort in Mexico Saturday left seven dead, including a 7-year-old child, authorities said. 

Mexican officials said a band of gunmen invaded the La Palma resort in the Cortazar municipality and shot the vacationers at the swimming pool. Authorities said three women and three men died, including a child, as well as an eighth person who was seriously wounded. The identities of the victims have not yet been released. 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexico-resort-shooting-leaves-seven-dead-including-child?intcmp=tw_fnc

 

Mexico is also largely controlled by drug cartels and regularly has kidnappings, public executions, and the like. Are you saying that Mexico's issues are an excuse for the United States...supposedly one of the most advanced, wealthiest nations on earth.... to not do better and be better? 

 

 

[arein0 1,106]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

You are the one confused here. I was at no point discussing "where" a suicide happened nor anything specific about any suicide map. I was speaking ONLY in larger numbers and that was my entire point. There are aggregate numbers available. People trying to feather their total numbers are the ones adding in, or failing to remove suicides from the total numbers of so-called "Gun Deaths." Again, most years, suicides make up about half or more of the total number of "Gun Deaths." No one cares about anything in the Hipaa data. The numbers I just showed were for 2022 and 2023. The suicide info is there and being shared openly. 

Yeah, I'm not sure how I or anyone was supposed to interpret your point when the only thing that mentioned total gun deaths when you jumped into the conversation was the map of the US with gun deaths plotted on it. They use the aggregate data from the CDC and show the breakdown in their totals.

[I_M4_AU 8,988]

40 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Mexico is also largely controlled by drug cartels and regularly has kidnappings, public executions, and the like. Are you saying that Mexico's issues are an excuse for the United States...supposedly one of the most advanced, wealthiest nations on earth.... to not do better and be better? 

 

 

No, what I am saying is the left likes to point out the other countries don’t have gun deaths like the US and it must be the guns.  

Mexico is run by the outlaws and that is where most deaths occur down there.  Guess what; most violent gun deaths (not counting suicide) are committed by outlaws.  Those are the people that don’t care about the laws.

Yes, we should be better.  Enforce the laws we have.

[CoffeeTiger 5,915]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

No, what I am saying is the left likes to point out the other countries don’t have gun deaths like the US and it must be the guns.  

Mexico is run by the outlaws and that is where most deaths occur down there.  Guess what; most violent gun deaths (not counting suicide) are committed by outlaws.  Those are the people that don’t care about the laws.

Yes, we should be better.  Enforce the laws we have.

We do enforce the laws we have. The laws are insufficient. 

A majority of our mass shootings are committed with guns purchased and owned legally. 

 

And yes, it is the guns. Every country has bad guys and criminals. Only the countries that are flooded with guns, Like America and Mexico (via gangs getting guns from America in exchange for sending drugs to us) have mass shootings and gun violence problems.  

 

[DKW 86 7,921]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bodycam-video-farmington-new-mexico-police-fatally-shoot-armed-homeowner-wrong-address/

They never identified as Farmington Police after he came to the door. 

They shot him down in a hail of bullets, all three firing multiple times.

THEY KNEW THEY WERE AT THE WRONG ADDRESS BEFORE THE SHOOTING STARTED. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by DKW 86

[I_M4_AU 8,988]

43 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

And yes, it is the guns. Every country has bad guys and criminals. Only the countries that are flooded with guns, Like America and Mexico (via gangs getting guns from America in exchange for sending drugs to us) have mass shootings and gun violence problems.  

So, in one sentence you say we do enforce the laws and in this paragraph you say we have bad guys and criminals yet they are roaming around free.  Tell me again how we enforce the law.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

No, what I am saying is the left likes to point out the other countries don’t have gun deaths like the US and it must be the guns.  

Mexico is run by the outlaws and that is where most deaths occur down there.  Guess what; most violent gun deaths (not counting suicide) are committed by outlaws.  Those are the people that don’t care about the laws.

Yes, we should be better.  Enforce the laws we have.

Sure, let's compare ourselves to the developing world.  Let's set the bar as low as possible.  Why don't you provide us with some data from Yemen?