What does the Bible say about homosexuality? For starters, Jesus wasn't a homophobe

[SaltyTiger 8,578]

On 2/9/2023 at 12:38 PM, homersapien said:

This supports my contention that Christianity would be well-served by simply ditching the old testament from their bible.

Jesus was a revolutionary.  Recognize that by doing so.

 I also think that Christianity is in desperate need of reform. (See Christian Nationalism) Ditching the old testament could be the catalyst for that.

 

Asked you in the past. How can you ditch the Old and understand the New. Doesn’t work that way. You obviously do not get it.

[SaltyTiger 8,578]

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

Yep.  Every single word.  Got it.

 

 

Maybe more accurate than you care to admit.

https://probe.org/the-dead-sea-scrolls/

The Dead Sea Scrolls have proven to be a significant discovery, confirming the accurate preservation of our Old Testament text, the messianic prophecies of Christ, and valuable insight into first century Judaism.

[SaltyTiger 8,578]

10 hours ago, cole256 said:

The thought of some racist people quoting scriptures at other people telling them they are going to hell is hilarious

Who told anyone they are going to hell?

[cole256 17,085]

1 hour ago, PUB78 said:

You need to look in the mirror bigot.

You know nothing about me you clown. I'm sure you call yourself a Christian though.....hilarious

Edited February 11, 2023 by cole256

[cole256 17,085]

46 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Who told anyone they are going to hell?

Instead of trying to start the trivial arguments let's focus on the point that people who don't even follow the scripture themselves preaching and judging other people sins while ignoring their own.

 

[PUB78 1,413]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

You know nothing about me you clown. I'm sure you call yourself a Christian though.....hilarious

You should stick to things you know a lot about. You seem to have a good grasp and understanding of basketball and I enjoy your insights.

However, in this area, I don’t think you are well schooled.

[cole256 17,085]

1 hour ago, PUB78 said:

You should stick to things you know a lot about. You seem to have a good grasp and understanding of basketball and I enjoy your insights.

However, in this area, I don’t think you are well schooled.

Which is why you probably should just stop assuming and probably talking. As much as I know about basketball I know football. As much as I know football I know the scripture. I know the things because I lived them. 

What things have you proven yourself to be well versed to speak on? 

But instead of trying to throw insults that you can't back up try to attack the argument.....what makes one sin greater than another? How could someone that's a racist talk down on a homosexual? On what higher moral ground could they claim to stand on? We're talking scripture here. And if we're talking judgement where does it land? 

Edited February 11, 2023 by cole256

[Son of A Tiger 649]

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

"Moral laxity" is the ever evolving term.  What constituted that moral laxity in 1786 is not considered the same today.  Clearly, we can all agree on that.  To believe that is to believe that pre-marital sex will condemn you to an eternity in hell.

I guess I just remember what Billy Graham once said....."any generation that neglects it's spiritual and moral life is going to disintegrate."  I think we are seeing that noiw.

[PUB78 1,413]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Which is why you probably should just stop assuming and probably talking. As much as I know about basketball I know football. As much as I know football I know the scripture. I know the things because I lived them. 

What things have you proven yourself to be well versed to speak on? 

But instead of trying to throw insults that you can't back up try to attack the argument.....what makes one sin greater than another? How could someone that's a racist talk down on a homosexual? On what higher moral ground could they claim to stand on? We're talking scripture here. And if we're talking judgement where does it land? 

Okay.  Perhaps you know FB and BB. I only played baseball in HS as well as BB and intramural BB at Auburn. I am far from an expert in these two sports, just loved to play them despite having average abilities.

Being a Pk growing up, a deacon, elder and Sunday school superintendent during my adult years does not make me an expert. However, I know false and inaccurate interpretations of the Bible when I hear or read them.

As far as calling people names, perhaps you shouldn’t be so quick to call people racist or play the race card so much.

[homersapien 12,241]

10 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Asked you in the past. How can you ditch the Old and understand the New. Doesn’t work that way. You obviously do not get it.

Oh, I'll be the first to admit I don't get "it", never will, (and don't feel a need for "it").

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by homersapien

[cole256 17,085]

10 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

Okay.  Perhaps you know FB and BB. I only played baseball in HS as well as BB and intramural BB at Auburn. I am far from an expert in these two sports, just loved to play them despite having average abilities.

Being a Pk growing up, a deacon, elder and Sunday school superintendent during my adult years does not make me an expert. However, I know false and inaccurate interpretations of the Bible when I hear or read them.

As far as calling people names, perhaps you shouldn’t be so quick to call people racist or play the race card so much.

Well I myself grew up in the church. Off the top of my head I have 7 pastors in my family one who is on television a lot. I attended bible school's growing up and won state and national competitions in both the old and New Testament. 

If I call an individual racist it's because I've seen them do something racist. Unfortunately on this board if you speak about race so many of you get upset as if it's an insult to you personally.

Actually you probably shouldn't be so quick to get upset about something you don't know about and fly through with your insults and stuff as your like to do. Actually I remember not too long ago I just said I have quite a few experiences and examples of racism I've encountered and you even had an insult to say about that. So no matter what if I experience racism and talk about it, to you it's playing a race card.

Now if you ever have an example of me bringing up race when it had no context then you may have some credibility but until then the question is why are you so angry about something you don't experience? Do you treat rape victims in that manor as well?

And what false or inaccurate interpretations did I say? Do you believe a racist man can be holy?

Edited February 11, 2023 by cole256

[PUB78 1,413]

19 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Well I myself grew up in the church. Off the top of my head I have 7 pastors in my family one who is on television a lot. I attended bible school's growing up and won state and national competitions in both the old and New Testament. 

If I call an individual racist it's because I've seen them do something racist. Unfortunately on this board if you speak about race so many of you get upset as if it's an insult to you personally.

Actually you probably shouldn't be so quick to get upset about something you don't know about and fly through with your insults and stuff as your like to do. Actually I remember not too long ago I just said I have quite a few experiences and examples of racism I've encountered and you even had an insult to say about that. So no matter what if I experience racism and talk about it, to you it's playing a race card.

Now if you ever have an example of me bringing up race when it had no context then you may have some credibility but until then the question is why are you so angry about something you don't experience? Do you treat rape victims in that manor as well?

And what false or inaccurate interpretations did I say? Do you believe a racist man can be holy?

Congratulations. You seem to have a solid background in religion, but is it the true gospel or a “ watered down “ version? I don’t expect an answer from you because we probably a different interpretation of scripture in several major areas.

I prefer not to discuss race, I respect people by their character, values, morals, and how they treat their family and fellow men. Entirely too much emphasis is placed on race by some rather than character.

As far as my “ insult” to you, which earned me an unwarranted 24 hour suspension from this forum,it  was a joke. I have been called much worse on this forum by some and to my knowledge, they didn’t get suspended.

Yes, a racist person can be a born again Christian as we all are fallen people. He/she may love individuals but can be biased or prejudice against a certain group of people as a whole. We ALL have bias and sin in our lives. Do you agree?

If you have experienced racism and discrimination, then I am sorry. As a white man, I have only had a few occurrences in my life where I was treated wrong or badly by blacks due to my race. As I said earlier, race is not a major issue to me, but some of the worst racists I have met or dealt with in my professional life, were black.

 

[cole256 17,085]

23 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

Congratulations. You seem to have a solid background in religion, but is it the true gospel or a “ watered down “ version? I don’t expect an answer from you because we probably a different interpretation of scripture in several major areas.

I prefer not to discuss race, I respect people by their character, values, morals, and how they treat their family and fellow men. Entirely too much emphasis is placed on race by some rather than character.

As far as my “ insult” to you, which earned me an unwarranted 24 hour suspension from this forum,it  was a joke. I have been called much worse on this forum by some and to my knowledge, they didn’t get suspended.

Yes, a racist person can be a born again Christian as we all are fallen people. He/she may love individuals but can be biased or prejudice against a certain group of people as a whole. We ALL have bias and sin in our lives. Do you agree?

If you have experienced racism and discrimination, then I am sorry. As a white man, I have only had a few occurrences in my life where I was treated wrong or badly by blacks due to my race. As I said earlier, race is not a major issue to me, but some of the worst racists I have met or dealt with in my professional life, were black.

 

It's true gospel. I'm not aware of watered down versions.

If you don't like to discuss race that's fine but that doesn't give you the right to come to a conclusion that if someone else is merely discussing race that they are race baiters or playing a race card. And actually you can judge someone's character if they are racist or not imo. 

I'm not aware of a particular insult I've seen you have snide comments towards me more than once and I wasn't aware of any ban that you received. 

I feel that a racist person can be forgiven and born again after they repent and change and aren't racist anymore but you can't be actively racist and consider yourself holy or Christ like. We all have sin but know I don't think we all have bias towards a group of people. If you believe what you believe then you'd have to believe a person could be homosexual and Christian then right? 

Yes I've experienced a bunch of racism. Maybe the most was actually inside of those Christian schools where many parents were very adamant about their daughters interacting with me. I have many people that don't like me on this very forum because I will speak out against racism. And even people that may not be necessarily racist they dislike me for reasons they couldn't even explain, my theory is many older white men hate the thought of me being unapologetically black and confident. But that's just a theory I just know there are many on here that approach me in the way you did even though I haven't done anything to them. They usually follow my every post disliking anything I say just because. 

What are some things a black person will do to a white person? Many of the things I've had happen to me black people wouldn't even be able to do because they wouldn't have the institutions established to do those things, especially without consequence so I'm curious. Also just within my life I haven't ever seen it. At most I've seen black people say not to trust white people because of things that were done to them and that's older black people. As far as younger generations from what I've seen black people are excited and very welcoming to a white person that seems to respect black culture. I've even seen it where they've been more welcoming to a white person that does that than another black person. 

[DKW 86 7,909]

On 2/9/2023 at 12:56 PM, PUB78 said:

 

[DKW 86 7,909]

7 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Asked you in the past. How can you ditch the Old and understand the New. Doesn’t work that way. You obviously do not get it.

I dont agree with you much on anything, but...

Getting rid of the OT is like throwing away the owner's manual for a very complicated piece of equipment. You got to understand the Why and the How before you can grasp it all. 

[PUB78 1,413]

21 minutes ago, cole256 said:

It's true gospel. I'm not aware of watered down versions.

If you don't like to discuss race that's fine but that doesn't give you the right to come to a conclusion that if someone else is merely discussing race that they are race baiters or playing a race card. And actually you can judge someone's character if they are racist or not imo. 

I'm not aware of a particular insult I've seen you have snide comments towards me more than once and I wasn't aware of any ban that you received. 

I feel that a racist person can be forgiven and born again after they repent and change and aren't racist anymore but you can't be actively racist and consider yourself holy or Christ like. We all have sin but know I don't think we all have bias towards a group of people. If you believe what you believe then you'd have to believe a person could be homosexual and Christian then right? 

Yes I've experienced a bunch of racism. Maybe the most was actually inside of those Christian schools where many parents were very adamant about their daughters interacting with me. I have many people that don't like me on this very forum because I will speak out against racism. And even people that may not be necessarily racist they dislike me for reasons they couldn't even explain, my theory is many older white men hate the thought of me being unapologetically black and confident. But that's just a theory I just know there are many on here that approach me in the way you did even though I haven't done anything to them. They usually follow my every post disliking anything I say just because. 

What are some things a black person will do to a white person? Many of the things I've had happen to me black people wouldn't even be able to do because they wouldn't have the institutions established to do those things, especially without consequence so I'm curious. Also just within my life I haven't ever seen it. At most I've seen black people say not to trust white people because of things that were done to them and that's older black people. As far as younger generations from what I've seen black people are excited and very welcoming to a white person that seems to respect black culture. I've even seen it where they've been more welcoming to a white person that does that than another black person. 

Who you calling an “older white male”???

Isn’t this age and race discrimination?? JK, I am an older white male!

The times I have been discriminated or disrespected for my race is during situations or institutions where blacks were in charge. The worst one was 15 years ago when I and a few others appeared before an Alabama House Committee chaired by John Rogers from Birmingham.  It was disgraceful. So, there is institutional racism on both sides.

You seem to have a “chip” on your shoulder and perhaps you have good reason to be this way. 

I will let you have the final word and have enjoyed our exchange.

[cole256 17,085]

22 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

Who you calling an “older white male”???

Isn’t this age and race discrimination?? JK, I am an older white male!

The times I have been discriminated or disrespected for my race is during situations or institutions where blacks were in charge. The worst one was 15 years ago when I and a few others appeared before an Alabama House Committee chaired by John Rogers from Birmingham.  It was disgraceful. So, there is institutional racism on both sides.

You seem to have a “chip” on your shoulder and perhaps you have good reason to be this way. 

I will let you have the final word and have enjoyed our exchange.

I don't think I've had a chip on my shoulder, I'm human I reciprocate what's offered to me but once we started talking I actually enjoyed it. That's sort of my entire point, I feel like you have been disliking me but if you really knew me maybe you wouldn't. I don't disrespect anybody on here without being disrespected first. 

I like to think I'm actually a pretty pleasant person to talk to as long as there's respect on both sides. I feel one of the things that causes arguments the most is many feel attacked personally when someone may disagree with them. I guess it's because of my training as far as what I do but I don't feel like just because someone disagrees with me they don't like me. Sometimes that is the case but other times it's not. 

The House committee stuff sounds interesting, if you ever feel like discussing it I'd love to know more about it. 

And to me it's not about last words I'm just replying to your post. I'm not angry or anything. 

[SaltyTiger 8,578]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Oh, I'll be the first to admit I don't get "it", never will, and don't need "it".

 

I will take the opportunity to reword. You are well studied, above average intelligence. You simply do get the need for the Old Testament and the New.
What you need is your business and doesn’t concern anyone else. You are “good people” imo. 

[SaltyTiger 8,578]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

I dont agree with you much on anything, but...

Getting rid of the OT is like throwing away the owner's manual for a very complicated piece of equipment. You got to understand the Why and the How before you can grasp it all. 

Why qualify with the first sentence. What much are you in disagreement about?

[SaltyTiger 8,578]

8 hours ago, cole256 said:

Instead of trying to start the trivial arguments let's focus on the point that people who don't even follow the scripture themselves preaching and judging other people sins while ignoring their own.

 

I can go along with it.

[AU9377 6,037]

5 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

I guess I just remember what Billy Graham once said....."any generation that neglects it's spiritual and moral life is going to disintegrate."  I think we are seeing that noiw.

Billy Graham was also asked once what his response would be if a child of his told him that they were Gay.  His answer:  "I would wrap my arms around them and ask them what they wanted for supper."

[AU9377 6,037]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I dont agree with you much on anything, but...

Getting rid of the OT is like throwing away the owner's manual for a very complicated piece of equipment. You got to understand the Why and the How before you can grasp it all. 

I also wouldn't argue that it is unimportant.  I would just argue that much of it should be put in context and recognized for what it is.

[DKW 86 7,909]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:46 PM, AU9377 said:

I also wouldn't argue that it is unimportant.  I would just argue that much of it should be put in context and recognized for what it is.

Then we agree. 

The 600 plus laws in the OT are there to show us that Man is not a holy being in any way. But some fools actually think that they can be pious enough to actually be like God with just a rule book. They THINK they are doing well when in fact they maybe be the worst of all. Show me any OCD Rule Follower and I will show you a Pharisee eaten up with The Sin of Pride. The Pharisees memorized the Pentateuch. They memorized a bunch of words and thought that if they live those words they would be holy people. There is really no way that any human can follow 600 plus laws everyday without screwing them almost every way. They were just delusional humans that grew hard hearted and really forgot that they were actually flawed, no better than anyone else. Being OCD rule followers oddly does the same thing for people even today.

The lesson of the OT is, as Christ said, that man cannot clean himself up. We are filled with lusts, greed, selfishness, etc. The NT said just the opposite. Recognize that you are flawed and accept that Christ has forgiven you and, over time, you will grow to a loving, caring, non-selfish, non-greedy, non-lustful person that will show the true Light of God accepting and living out your RELATIONSHIP with Christ. Real Christianity is not a religion at all. It is not robes, and guilt, and piousness. Real Christianity is sacrificially living for others because you have come to realize that you do best by working and living for others, like Christ did for you.

The OT, the Pharisees, the Pious Failures are there to remind that we cannot work ourselves to God under any circumstances. If you are doing good to have man think better of you, you are doing it all wrong. You do good in secret so that God gets the glory. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by DKW 86

[icanthearyou 4,468]

23 hours ago, cole256 said:

You know nothing about me you clown. I'm sure you call yourself a Christian though.....hilarious

The majority of people who call themselves "christians" are not followers of Jesus.  They have dismissed Jesus for faith in "christianity" and, the bible.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Jesus told the children of Israel that they had lost God in their law, scripture, traditions, self righteousness, greed.  "Christianity" is making the same mistake.