when you die................

[jj3jordan 2,171]

32 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I have not attacked you in any way.  You are lying.

You are using prejudice in order to deny reality.  Homosexuals have existed in every culture, for all recorded history.
 

Accusing me of being judgmental  or “pre-judgmental” is an attack on me. 

[Leftfield 3,378]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

Marriage was always between a man and woman since the beginning of time.

Incorrect. 

[homersapien 12,240]

3 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

We disagree on the truth and accuracy of the Bible. It appears you trust some of the Bible but not all the Bible. I do not make that distinction. Salvation is granted by the grace of Jesus but lies in the repentance of personal sin and acceptance of Jesus as Lord of your life.

Then presumably, you don't eat pork, right?   No BBQ, no Conecuh or Jimmie Dean sausage, no bacon .....   (Leviticus 11:4)

You don't save for retirement, right?  (Matt 6:19)

You have sold everything you have, distributed it to the poor, and are following Jesus, right? (Luke 18:22)

I guess you just pray and ask for forgiveness for your sin if you have a BLT.

 

 

 

[homersapien 12,240]

3 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

You asked me about me, not somebody else.  I don't understand same sex sexual desires. I did not have to think about it because it is natural and normal.

No I do not believe there is a "gay" gene controlling gay desires.

Correct, there is no "gay" gene.   But that does not mean homosexuality doesn't have an inherent biological component.  It does.

You haven't done the research, because you are either content with your ignorance and/or are afraid of the truth.

[homersapien 12,240]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

And that's fine. 

You're more than free to believe that and want to live your life that way. 

The problem is that you and many with your beliefs want to FORCE by legal statute everyone else to live within your interpretation of the Bible. 

Not everyone believes in your Biblical interpretation, not everyone believes in the Bible. 

We as a society have to move past  making laws, and rights, and punishments based on one of the many human interpretations of a 2000 year old religious book, whether that be  the evangelical Christian Bible or Sharia Muslim law or any other. 

We're not arguing that you cant have the right to believe homosexuality is a sin, or that proper marriage is only between man and woman. You are more than free to believe that....but in turn you also have to accept that other people don't agree with your views and just like they shouldn't try to make your beliefs 'illegal' Christians have to stop using laws and mandates to make sins...like homosexual marriage illegal. 

 

And that is the essence of the dispute.

I don't give a s*** about what JJ believes.  And frankly, it's foolish to think he is going to respond to argument or evidence and change those beliefs. 

Reasonable Christians - and I would argue genuine Christians by definition (followers of Christ) can modify or moderate their beliefs based on new knowledge, experience, common sense and a honest, accurate interpretation of Jesus's message.

But, that's not what religious radicals do.  They hold up a manuscript thousands of years old and written by men and proclaim damnation on people they think are in violation.  And then they use our political system to persecute innocent people based on their religious beliefs, which is unconstitutional at best and cruel and immoral at worst.

I do care about that.

 

 

[homersapien 12,240]

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

I was not discussing this topic with the intent to sponsor legislation. Marriage was always between a man and woman since the beginning of time. That is why our marriage license and documents all assumed this structure. In later years gay activists began challenging this in court, primarily to gain financial perks of income tax filing. Ultimately the Supreme Court decided to declare same sex marriage legal. There is no legislation to pass or prevent the court from their decision. When acceptance is forced on anyone, it is not legitimate. It won’t change anything. You can force all the cake makers out of business but you will never get the cake you want.  Why does the age of the Bible matter? What is the proper age for a book to use that you would deem acceptable. 

Thank you for allowing me to live my life my way. But the cake maker doesn’t get to does he? Who is forcing with legislation and courts their beliefs on others who just want to bake cakes?

The bible was also used to justify slavery. 

Hopefully, with time, the people who feel they are justified in discriminating against gay people based on the bible will die out and that form of discrimination will also disappear.

Would you support legislation to rescind the rights of homosexuals to marry if such legislation is introduced in the future?  (Again, that's a reasonable hypothetical.)

 

[jj3jordan 2,171]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Besides being a non sequitur, that proves nothing.  Sexuality doesn't require a dedicated gene.

I'll bet you've never even heard of epigenetics have you?

No but I just read up on your articles about it. It was interesting and very complicated. I did not see any references to sexuality or homosexual behavior in connection with the environmental influences affecting gene activation or lack thereof. Lots of references to cancers and other diseases and potential cures to those using the technology. Also to assist with early detection. I did see that when identified as a cause of genetic manipulation it can be reversed if doing so would be advantageous to the organism. Are  you suggesting that epigenetics could be a cause of homosexuality? If so, could it be used to reverse homosexuality?

[jj3jordan 2,171]

11 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The bible was also used to justify slavery. 

Hopefully, with time, the people who feel they are justified in discriminating against gay people based on the bible will die out and that form of discrimination will also disappear.

Would you support legislation to rescind the rights of homosexuals to marry if such legislation is introduced in the future?  (Again, that's a reasonable hypothetical.)

 

Yes.

[homersapien 12,240]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

No but I just read up on your articles about it. It was interesting and very complicated. I did not see any references to sexuality or homosexual behavior in connection with the environmental influences affecting gene activation or lack thereof. Lots of references to cancers and other diseases and potential cures to those using the technology. Also to assist with early detection. I did see that when identified as a cause of genetic manipulation it can be reversed if doing so would be advantageous to the organism. Are  you suggesting that epigenetics could be a cause of homosexuality? If so, could it be used to reverse homosexuality?

Yes, I am suggesting that epigenetics could be (one) of the biological factors of homosexuality.  It has been postulated as such by scientists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_theories_of_homosexuality

But I doubt it is the only factor (that's not the way epigenetics works.)  Sexuality is more complicated than that. (Thanks to God )  So I seriously doubt it could be modified to reverse homosexualty, which at any rate would not be ethical unless the homosexual asked to have it reversed.

Do you even understand how to do research on the internet?

I suggest you include the following terms to research the biology or homosexuality:

homosexualty biology (duh)

homosexuality twin studies

Those two searches will reveal lots of leads to pursue.  It's never too late to educate yourself (if you are willing)

Oh and let me know if you find any research that supports the proposition that homosexuality is a personal "choice".   (You won't, but it you think you have, by all means, present it.)

Edited October 12, 2022 by homersapien

[homersapien 12,240]

59 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Yes.

Then my opinion of you is correct.  Thanks for being honest about it.

Edited October 12, 2022 by homersapien

[aubiefifty 18,253]

4 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

My favorite color is blue. I don’t believe genes make things blue. 

you ever wear pink jj? grins

[aubiefifty 18,253]

3 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Are you talking about Genesis 38 with Judah Onan and Judah’s daughter in law? If so read the whole chapter and you will see it is not relevant to this topic.

actually some tv preacher mentioned but funny he did not mention the whole thing. and that would be local as in alabama or maybe tennessee but it has been a while.

[SaltyTiger 8,576]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Then presumably, you don't eat pork, right?   No BBQ, no Conecuh or Jimmie Dean sausage, no bacon .....   (Leviticus 11:4)

Old Levitical law Brother Homer. Considered null and void per the New Testament. Just helping you out.

Gays, I suppose it could be gene related. Had a duplex neighbor last year of college that was gay and one of the better people I have ever met. Very good architect and helped me tremendously with some school projects. Even let me bootleg cable TV from him. He had a couple of yearly parties and always advised in advance. Understood that I may not agree with some decor, etc..and may want to leave for the weekend.

Had two married women as neighbors later in life. One of ladies was great. The other was a horses ass. Walked across the street one night to call me a stupid **** for having the radio in garage up to loud. Understand this was close to campus and Friday night prior to AU/FSU football game.

Regardless, feel no reason or responsibility to judge gays.

[DKW 86 7,909]

22 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

You are correct. Sin is sin. Homosexuality and other sex outside Biblical marriage is addressed specifically numerous times in the Bible. It is one thing to commit sin. It is another to deny God’s enumeration if a sin, reject His righteousness to judge that sin, and basically declare to God directly “You are wrong God. Homosexuality is not a sin. Not wrong. It is OK to be homosexual despite what You say in Your Book to us. I reject Your authority over me to identify right and wrong. I will continue to behave in the manner I choose over what You say”.  It would be the same if you chose to actively practice stealing, murder (including wishing people dead and hatred), or defying your parents authority over you by failing to honor them. It applies similarly to all the commandments. Trying to rationalize your behavior by saying the original text translation is wrong is one way Satan deceives us into rejecting clear messages from God. If we reject the Bible we reject it all, not just the parts we don’t like. Personally I believe the Bible is the true Word of God.

You have never read a bible huh? Gluttony, being one pound over weight is just as big a sin as homosexuality. By your own words you falsely raised one sin above another. There is no hierarchy of sins. That doesnt not work. Romans 3:23 says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is no sin worse than any other. If enumerated Sins are worse, and they are not, then here are 17 Enumerated Sins that are worse than homosexuality. I am not condoning anything. I am truthfully pointing out that Sin is a lightbulb test. You either Sin and fall short or you dont. Sin is not graded on the curve. Lust, Greed, Adultery, Gluttony, etc are all just as bad as any Sin out there, and they are enumerated, which means nothing more than a teaching tool. And your entire tirade there was meant for whom? I never said one word about denying the Sin nor denying God's Holiness. I am simply and truthfully saying what scripture teaches. Sin is Sin. There are no preconditions nor any Sin worse than any other. They all are denying God's Righteousness and Holiness.

Some of the best servant men I know smoke, drink, cuss a lil, and most have a Prideful nature about them. That doesnt mean that they arent still in The Lambs Book. It just means that they are humans working out their journey with God. The only people in the world thinking they are holy and pure have long since driven themselves crazy trying to live to a standard that humans are WAY WAY WAY too flawed to master. 

Originating in Christian theology, the seven deadly sins are pride, envy, gluttony, greed, lust, sloth, and wrath. Pride is sometimes referred to as vanity or vainglory, greed as avarice or covetousness, and wrath as anger. Gluttony covers self-indulgent excess more generally, including drunkenness. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by DKW 86

[DKW 86 7,909]

16 hours ago, homersapien said:

The best way to cover up one's complete inadequacy in a debate is by ignoring such direct questions.  Typically, that's done by weaseling and/or answering a question with question.

Thanks for pointing that it out.

[DKW 86 7,909]

14 hours ago, homersapien said:

Yes, I am suggesting that epigenetics could be (one) of the biological factors of homosexuality.  It has been postulated as such by scientists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_theories_of_homosexuality

But I doubt it is the only factor (that's not the way epigenetics works.)  Sexuality is more complicated than that. (Thanks to God )  So I seriously doubt it could be modified to reverse homosexualty, which at any rate would not be ethical unless the homosexual asked to have it reversed.

Do you even understand how to do research on the internet?

I suggest you include the following terms to research the biology or homosexuality:

homosexualty biology (duh)

homosexuality twin studies

Those two searches will reveal lots of leads to pursue.  It's never too late to educate yourself (if you are willing)

Oh and let me know if you find any research that supports the proposition that homosexuality is a personal "choice".   (You won't, but it you think you have, by all means, present it.)

Homer, seriously, asking JJ to do research other than whatever he is spoon fed at some church in deepest darkest rural Abalama is just a waste of time. He is stating things he likely knows arent true already.

[jj3jordan 2,171]

53 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

You have never read a bible huh? Gluttony, being one pound over weight is just as big a sin as homosexuality. By your own words you falsely raised one sin above another. There is no hierarchy of sins. That doesnt not work. Romans 3:23 says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is no sin worse than any other. If enumerated Sins are worse, and they are not, then here are 17 Enumerated Sins that are worse than homosexuality. I am not condoning anything. I am truthfully pointing out that Sin is a lightbulb test. You either Sin and fall short or you dont. Sin is not graded on the curve. Lust, Greed, Adultery, Gluttony, etc are all just as bad as any Sin out there, and they are enumerated, which means nothing more than a teaching tool. And your entire tirade there was meant for whom? I never said one word about denying the Sin nor denying God's Holiness. I am simply and truthfully saying what scripture teaches. Sin is Sin. There are no preconditions nor any Sin worse than any other. They all are denying God's Righteousness and Holiness.

Some of the best servant men I know smoke, drink, cuss a lil, and most have a Prideful nature about them. That doesnt mean that they arent still in The Lambs Book. It just means that they are humans working out their journey with God. The only people in the world thinking they are holy and pure have long since driven themselves crazy trying to live to a standard that humans are WAY WAY WAY too flawed to master. 

Originating in Christian theology, the seven deadly sins are pride, envy, gluttony, greed, lust, sloth, and wrath. Pride is sometimes referred to as vanity or vainglory, greed as avarice or covetousness, and wrath as anger. Gluttony covers self-indulgent excess more generally, including drunkenness. 

I have not disagreed with anything you have said here. We are discussing homosexuality and humans who are saying it is NOT sin. I have not said it is a worse sin than any other sin. I stated clearly all sin is sin. And we have all sinned and fallen short.  It is not a tirade to refer someone to the Bible.  It sounds like in some way you feel smoking could be included. That is a tough one for me also. Some behaviors are started as rebellious acts against God or our parents. I believe the rebelliousness is the sin more than the act itself. Smoking drinking cursing are some of those. Personally I don’t think a Christian should drop F bombs regularly. I think it is a bad look but I could be wrong. But what I think is irrelevant because it doesn’t matter. I think you can see the difference in being a few pounds overweight and excessive consumption of food. Parsing out items like that can make people feel better about themselves relative to another sinner. We agree more than disagree. Homosexuality is not a worse sin than any other sin. My “tirade” as you call it (you read my words too loud in you head) is only a discussion about whether it is sin or not sin. I believe the Bible shows that it clearly is. Humans are trying to redefine that. In doing so they nullify the Bible or parts of it.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

If you want to follow Jesus,,, do not worry about sin, particularly the sins of others.  Transform yourself into a loving, kind, charitable, forgiving spirit.

Jesus gave us very simple instructions.  Hard to accomplish in this world but, very simple to understand.

[AU9377 6,035]

On 10/3/2022 at 2:29 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

https://www.ajc.com/politics/why-herschel-walker-is-focusing-on-transgender-athletes-in-senate-campaign/4VTTRSGKZNC4VORUHLYK42KOU4/

 

Speaking of this, Herschel Walker says transgendered people wont be able to get into Heaven because God wont be able to recognize them if they change their gender. 

 

I'm sure the guy who threatened to blow his ex-wifes brains out as he held a gun to her head is an expert in interpreting the words of the Bible. Georgia Republicans seem to think he is at least. 

Herschel is so dumb that it hurts my brain, yet some defend him as though he is a victim.

[AU9377 6,035]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

You have never read a bible huh? Gluttony, being one pound over weight is just as big a sin as homosexuality. By your own words you falsely raised one sin above another. There is no hierarchy of sins. That doesnt not work. Romans 3:23 says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is no sin worse than any other. If enumerated Sins are worse, and they are not, then here are 17 Enumerated Sins that are worse than homosexuality. I am not condoning anything. I am truthfully pointing out that Sin is a lightbulb test. You either Sin and fall short or you dont. Sin is not graded on the curve. Lust, Greed, Adultery, Gluttony, etc are all just as bad as any Sin out there, and they are enumerated, which means nothing more than a teaching tool. And your entire tirade there was meant for whom? I never said one word about denying the Sin nor denying God's Holiness. I am simply and truthfully saying what scripture teaches. Sin is Sin. There are no preconditions nor any Sin worse than any other. They all are denying God's Righteousness and Holiness.

Some of the best servant men I know smoke, drink, cuss a lil, and most have a Prideful nature about them. That doesnt mean that they arent still in The Lambs Book. It just means that they are humans working out their journey with God. The only people in the world thinking they are holy and pure have long since driven themselves crazy trying to live to a standard that humans are WAY WAY WAY too flawed to master. 

Originating in Christian theology, the seven deadly sins are pride, envy, gluttony, greed, lust, sloth, and wrath. Pride is sometimes referred to as vanity or vainglory, greed as avarice or covetousness, and wrath as anger. Gluttony covers self-indulgent excess more generally, including drunkenness. 

This is perhaps the best, most thorough, post you have ever written, in my opinion.

[homersapien 12,240]

4 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

I have not disagreed with anything you have said here. We are discussing homosexuality and humans who are saying it is NOT sin. I have not said it is a worse sin than any other sin. I stated clearly all sin is sin. And we have all sinned and fallen short.  It is not a tirade to refer someone to the Bible.  It sounds like in some way you feel smoking could be included. That is a tough one for me also. Some behaviors are started as rebellious acts against God or our parents. I believe the rebelliousness is the sin more than the act itself. Smoking drinking cursing are some of those. Personally I don’t think a Christian should drop F bombs regularly. I think it is a bad look but I could be wrong. But what I think is irrelevant because it doesn’t matter. I think you can see the difference in being a few pounds overweight and excessive consumption of food. Parsing out items like that can make people feel better about themselves relative to another sinner. We agree more than disagree. Homosexuality is not a worse sin than any other sin. My “tirade” as you call it (you read my words too loud in you head) is only a discussion about whether it is sin or not sin. I believe the Bible shows that it clearly is. Humans are trying to redefine that. In doing so they nullify the Bible or parts of it.

What a stupid, useless issue to make a stand on. Turn the lights off on your way out.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/

 

[DKW 86 7,909]

37 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

This is perhaps the best, most thorough, post you have ever written, in my opinion.

Thanks, I really wish I had caught the double negative tho. 

[icanthearyou 4,468]

5 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Thanks, I really wish I had caught the double negative tho. 

I'm not going to deduct no points for that one,,, this time.

[Mims44 2,004]

Don't let this die, I've enjoyed it too much.

 

 

Gimmie a few and I'll find something to respond to....

[Mims44 2,004]

On 10/3/2022 at 3:54 PM, homersapien said:

So, God created people that you approve of just as they are, but those you don't approve of, he simply gave them free will (to sin.)

Again, you illustrate your scientific ignorance of the nature of homosexuals and transsexuals.  These people are not making a choice.  They can't make a choice.  That should be obvious if you understood the science of sexuality. 

You apparently think they can be converted - after all "it's simply a choice" . 

But you're wrong.  The idea that homosexuality is a choice has been debunked for decades now.  That logically applies to transsexuals as well.

If God the creator exists, he/she created all of us, including homos and transsexuals.  That's what the science tells us.

You are a pharisee who claims to know the mind of God.

Finally, I am not "twisting" your words.  I am drawing the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from your statements. 

It's not my fault you don't really understand the reality of the subject or cannot express your thoughts in a way that doesn't illustrate that miss understanding.

Multiple times this thread you seem to conflate trans people with homosexuals. I picked this quote, but you did it a few times.

Being gay, lesbian, bisexual are all differences in sexual preferences.

Being Trans is a personal self-identifier. They are not the same. Hence why people who feel the need to do so will say things like; I am a homosexual trans-male. Or; I am a bi-sexual trans-woman.

 

I get the group name includes 'T' in it, but that does not mean they are the same.

 

Also, I think you are making the same mistake as the guy you are arguing against. Being gay/bi/lesbian or being trans is not 100% a choice, nor is it 100% due to biological or mental issues. It's a mix bag for both.