when you die................

[icanthearyou 4,468]

1 minute ago, jj3jordan said:

We disagree on the truth and accuracy of the Bible. It appears you trust some of the Bible but not all the Bible. I do not make that distinction. Salvation is granted by the grace of Jesus but lies in the repentance of personal sin and acceptance of Jesus as Lord of your life.

I appreciate your thoughts.  I will stick with Jesus.  The bible is a great book, my favorite book. The bible clearly reveals the spirit of Jesus.  Still, it is merely a book.

[CoffeeTiger 5,876]

2 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

You asked me about me, not somebody else.  I don't understand same sex sexual desires. I did not have to think about it because it is natural and normal.

No I do not believe there is a "gay" gene controlling gay desires.

But to gay people their attraction to the same sex is natural and normal to them, just like your attraction to women is normal and natural to you. 

 

[jj3jordan 2,171]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

The law of Jesus is love.

Jesus loves sinners.

Who did Jesus condemn?  It was not the homosexuals.  It was the insincere, the self righteous, the judgmental, the hypocrites.

Sinners who reject His offer of salvation after repentance. Jesus pointed out that many sins committed by us are not all that obvious like murder, theft, adultery, fornication. 

[jj3jordan 2,171]

Just now, CoffeeTiger said:

But to gay people their attraction to the same sex is natural and normal to them, just like your attraction to women is normal and natural to you. 

 

I am not the standard by which anything can be measured. God instituted marriage between a man and a woman. This should be a signal that what a person might believe is normal and natural to them has violated what God created.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

6 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

You asked me about me, not somebody else.  I don't understand same sex sexual desires. I did not have to think about it because it is natural and normal.

No I do not believe there is a "gay" gene controlling gay desires.

You are using prejudice in order to deny reality.  Homosexuals have existed in every culture, for all recorded history.

[Leftfield 3,378]

10 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

You asked me about me, not somebody else.  I don't understand same sex sexual desires. I did not have to think about it because it is natural and normal.

No I do not believe there is a "gay" gene controlling gay desires.

Is there a gene that determines your favorite color?

[CoffeeTiger 5,876]

1 minute ago, jj3jordan said:

I am not the standard by which anything can be measured. God instituted marriage between a man and a woman. This should be a signal that what a person might believe is normal and natural to them has violated what God created.

And that's fine. 

You're more than free to believe that and want to live your life that way. 

The problem is that you and many with your beliefs want to FORCE by legal statute everyone else to live within your interpretation of the Bible. 

Not everyone believes in your Biblical interpretation, not everyone believes in the Bible. 

We as a society have to move past  making laws, and rights, and punishments based on one of the many human interpretations of a 2000 year old religious book, whether that be  the evangelical Christian Bible or Sharia Muslim law or any other. 

We're not arguing that you cant have the right to believe homosexuality is a sin, or that proper marriage is only between man and woman. You are more than free to believe that....but in turn you also have to accept that other people don't agree with your views and just like they shouldn't try to make your beliefs 'illegal' Christians have to stop using laws and mandates to make sins...like homosexual marriage illegal. 

 

[aubiefifty 18,253]

8 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

I am not the standard by which anything can be measured. God instituted marriage between a man and a woman. This should be a signal that what a person might believe is normal and natural to them has violated what God created.

the bible also said it is better to spill your seed inside a harlot than to spill it on the ground. i am pretty sure this is because at one time they wanted to help the human race survive back then.

[AUDub 11,861]

On 10/3/2022 at 12:50 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

Refused to do what? 

Stop performing abortions 

[CoffeeTiger 5,876]

3 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Stop performing abortions 

How did you know I perform abortions!? 

[icanthearyou 4,468]

10 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

How did you know I perform abortions!? 

I care less about your abortions and,,, more about your mad science of cross breeding of cats and orcas.  It's just not right.

[jj3jordan 2,171]

46 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

You are using prejudice in order to deny reality.  Homosexuals have existed in every culture, for all recorded history.

Didn’t say they hadn’t. Still against the Bible. Not prejudiced, not judging. Thought we’re just discussing issues but you can’t seem to respond without attacking me personally. 

 

[jj3jordan 2,171]

46 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Is there a gene that determines your favorite color?

My favorite color is blue. I don’t believe genes make things blue. 

[jj3jordan 2,171]

56 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

the bible also said it is better to spill your seed inside a harlot than to spill it on the ground. i am pretty sure this is because at one time they wanted to help the human race survive back then.

Are you talking about Genesis 38 with Judah Onan and Judah’s daughter in law? If so read the whole chapter and you will see it is not relevant to this topic.

Edited October 12, 2022 by jj3jordan

[Leftfield 3,378]

16 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

My favorite color is blue. I don’t believe genes make things blue. 

Well, then......what?

[jj3jordan 2,171]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

And that's fine. 

You're more than free to believe that and want to live your life that way. 

The problem is that you and many with your beliefs want to FORCE by legal statute everyone else to live within your interpretation of the Bible. 

Not everyone believes in your Biblical interpretation, not everyone believes in the Bible. 

We as a society have to move past  making laws, and rights, and punishments based on one of the many human interpretations of a 2000 year old religious book, whether that be  the evangelical Christian Bible or Sharia Muslim law or any other. 

We're not arguing that you cant have the right to believe homosexuality is a sin, or that proper marriage is only between man and woman. You are more than free to believe that....but in turn you also have to accept that other people don't agree with your views and just like they shouldn't try to make your beliefs 'illegal' Christians have to stop using laws and mandates to make sins...like homosexual marriage illegal. 

 

I was not discussing this topic with the intent to sponsor legislation. Marriage was always between a man and woman since the beginning of time. That is why our marriage license and documents all assumed this structure. In later years gay activists began challenging this in court, primarily to gain financial perks of income tax filing. Ultimately the Supreme Court decided to declare same sex marriage legal. There is no legislation to pass or prevent the court from their decision. When acceptance is forced on anyone, it is not legitimate. It won’t change anything. You can force all the cake makers out of business but you will never get the cake you want.  Why does the age of the Bible matter? What is the proper age for a book to use that you would deem acceptable. 

Thank you for allowing me to live my life my way. But the cake maker doesn’t get to does he? Who is forcing with legislation and courts their beliefs on others who just want to bake cakes?

[homersapien 12,240]

On 10/11/2022 at 1:56 PM, jj3jordan said:

Has there been legislation opposing the rights of gay people to get married? Did I miss a chance to actively vote? It seems you are the judgmental and one throwing accusations at me all the time. Disagreement = hate.  Not true ever. 

1) Without hypotheticals one cannot debate values at all.

2) It's not a unreasonable hypothetical, the possibility of outlawing gay marriage is certainly on the table for the right wing, starting with the SCOTUS Clarence Thomas (directly) as well as the reasoning for Dobbs.

3) The actual point I am making is not that there is such a law being proposed, but that you would support it if/when it is.  So am I right or wrong?  Would you support a law doing away with gay marriage. (A Yes or No would suffice.  Please spare me any more weaseling.)

4) You aren't very good at this. 

[homersapien 12,240]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

My favorite color is blue. I don’t believe genes make things blue. 

Besides being a non sequitur, that proves nothing.  Sexuality doesn't require a dedicated gene.

I'll bet you've never even heard of epigenetics have you?

[homersapien 12,240]

23 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This gay guy has it right.

 

 

We should all aspire to that.

 

On 10/10/2022 at 7:03 PM, pensacolatiger said:

First - that’s your interpretation

Second - who is advocating not to love people despite their preferences?  Gluttony is a sun, but I still love my big friends.

 

Are you conceding that the bible is subject to interpretation?

And there are several people on this forum who are judgmental of LGBQT people and would restrict the rights they are entitled to as citizens. 

[icanthearyou 4,468]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

Didn’t say they hadn’t. Still against the Bible. Not prejudiced, not judging. Thought we’re just discussing issues but you can’t seem to respond without attacking me personally. 

 

I have not attacked you in any way.  You are lying.

[homersapien 12,240]

On 10/11/2022 at 1:57 PM, I_M4_AU said:

That’s Homer, always trying to direct the narrative.

Yeah, I am the only person on this forum who does that. 

But please explain how that differs from pressing one's point or opinion, just like everyone else?

(Again, it's not my fault you suck at this.  Obviously you feel the need to vent your frustration at me for exploiting that, but you'd do better at thinking more and emoting less.)

[homersapien 12,240]

On 10/11/2022 at 2:22 PM, Leftfield said:

You didn't answer his question.

You also never answered mine....when did you choose to be heterosexual? 

The best way to cover up one's complete inadequacy in a debate is by ignoring such direct questions.  Typically, that's done by weaseling and/or answering a question with question.

Thanks for pointing that it out.

[homersapien 12,240]

22 hours ago, AUDynasty said:

Yeah, this dude either has never had a conversation about love with a gay individual or came from a place where open discrimination and harassment is perfectly suitable because he didn't know any better. Poor guy. Imagine being so blind to hate, fury, and anger about people who just want to enjoy the same rights and respect as he does as a "Christian".

Don't know how old he is, but it sounds like he is stuck in the middle of last century intellectually, emotionally and experientially.

Apparently, he has no empirical knowledge of the matter.

Edited October 12, 2022 by homersapien

[homersapien 12,240]

5 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

You are correct. Sin is sin. Homosexuality and other sex outside Biblical marriage is addressed specifically numerous times in the Bible. It is one thing to commit sin. It is another to deny God’s enumeration if a sin, reject His righteousness to judge that sin, and basically declare to God directly “You are wrong God. Homosexuality is not a sin. Not wrong. It is OK to be homosexual despite what You say in Your Book to us. I reject Your authority over me to identify right and wrong. I will continue to behave in the manner I choose over what You say”.  It would be the same if you chose to actively practice stealing, murder (including wishing people dead and hatred), or defying your parents authority over you by failing to honor them. It applies similarly to all the commandments. Trying to rationalize your behavior by saying the original text translation is wrong is one way Satan deceives us into rejecting clear messages from God. If we reject the Bible we reject it all, not just the parts we don’t like. Personally I believe the Bible is the true Word of God.

And that's what makes you such a threat to our free democracy and society, much less to individuals in our society who don't comport with your religious views.

[homersapien 12,240]

4 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

The law of Jesus is love.

Jesus loves sinners.

Who did Jesus condemn?  It was not the homosexuals.  It was the insincere, the self righteous, the judgmental, the hypocrites.

Perhaps no one chose to be homosexual in Jesus's time, so there weren't any.  

I wonder when humans started to choose such a thing?

Perhaps they got the idea from animals?

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/190987/scientists-explore-evolution-animal-homosexuality/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior