when you die................

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

1 minute ago, icanthearyou said:

Again, this is absolutely false.

How far back does the transsexual go back?  2000 years? 500 years?

[aubiefifty 18,251]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

If medical surgeries were not available to convert a human body to the opposite sex would there be such a movement as transsexuals?

there would be tons of suicides and trans people be abused for what they act like. men who act feminine get their ass kicked on the regular.

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

3 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

there would be tons of suicides and trans people be abused for what they act like. men who act feminine get their ass kicked on the regular.

Doesn’t answer the question does it.

[aubiefifty 18,251]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Doesn’t answer the question does it.

cancer will kill you dead but they are making huge inroads so what is your point?

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

1 minute ago, aubiefifty said:

cancer will kill you dead but they are making huge inroads so what is your point?

If there wasn’t an option to create the illusion you are a member of the opposite sex, would there be a trans movement.

[homersapien 12,239]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Again, stop twisting words.  I said God created man and woman and intended them to populate the earth.  God also gave men and women free will.  This would include trans even though it is a recent phenomenon.

So, God created people that you approve of just as they are, but those you don't approve of, he simply gave them free will (to sin.)

Again, you illustrate your scientific ignorance of the nature of homosexuals and transsexuals.  These people are not making a choice.  They can't make a choice.  That should be obvious if you understood the science of sexuality. 

You apparently think they can be converted - after all "it's simply a choice" . 

But you're wrong.  The idea that homosexuality is a choice has been debunked for decades now.  That logically applies to transsexuals as well.

If God the creator exists, he/she created all of us, including homos and transsexuals.  That's what the science tells us.

You are a pharisee who claims to know the mind of God.

Finally, I am not "twisting" your words.  I am drawing the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from your statements. 

It's not my fault you don't really understand the reality of the subject or cannot express your thoughts in a way that doesn't illustrate that miss understanding.

Edited October 4, 2022 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,876]

15 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

How far back does the transsexual go back?  2000 years? 500 years?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

 

for all of human history there have been people who identified as different genders and changed their physical appearances to appear as another sex. 

Yes, modern transgender surgeries are of course modern and recent, but the concept has been around as long as humans have. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[aubiefifty 18,251]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

If there wasn’t an option to create the illusion you are a member of the opposite sex, would there be a trans movement.

well i guess they prayed to god to help them.

[homersapien 12,239]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

If there wasn’t an option to create the illusion you are a member of the opposite sex, would there be a trans movement.

Begging the Question.  A logical fallacy.

[homersapien 12,239]

56 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Being a man or a woman does not exclude them from being homosexual, you know better.  Of course they are included in God’s creation.

Being trans is a new phenomenon that has been popularized by medical innovations in plastic surgery that can create the illusion one is a member of the opposite sex.

You are confusing gender with sexuality.

Are you suggesting God created gender but had nothing to do with sexuality?

So, does sexuality exist or not?  If it exists, then God created it, right?

[homersapien 12,239]

7 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

well i guess they prayed to god to help them.

No doubt some did. 

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

So, God created people that you approve of, but those you don't approve of, he simply gave them free will (to sin.)

Again, you illustrate your scientific ignorance of the nature of homosexuals and transsexuals.  These people are not making a choice.  They can't make a choice.  That should be obvious by studying the science of sexuality. 

You apparently think they can be converted - after all "it's simply a choice". 

You're wrong.  The idea that homosexuality is a choice has been debunked for decades now.  That logically applies to trans sexuals as well.

If God the creator exists, he/she created all of us, including homo and transsexuals.  That's what the science tells us.

You are a pharisee who claims to know the mind of God.

Finally, I am not "twisting" your words.  I am drawing the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from your statements. 

It's not my fault you don't really understand the reality of the subject or cannot express your thoughts in a way that doesn't illustrate that miss understanding.

You are the most disingenuous POS on this board.  You are attributing me with statements I am not making.  Your *logical* conclusions are no where near what I have said and you should stop trying to analyze what people think.  You’re not good at it.

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

10 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

 

for all of human history there have been people who identified as different genders and changed their physical appearances to appear as another sex. 

Yes, modern transgender surgeries are of course modern and recent, but the concept has been around as long as humans have. 

Great source.  I believe that would be changing history to what we believe now.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

You are the most disingenuous POS on this board.  You are attributing me with statements I am not making.  Your *logical* conclusions are no where near what I have said and you should stop trying to analyze what people think.  You’re not good at it.

I wonder why some do not take your religion seriously?

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

Just now, icanthearyou said:

I wonder why some do not take your religion seriously?

One could ask the same of you.

[CoffeeTiger 5,876]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Great source.  I believe that would be changing history to what we believe now.

If you scroll to the bottom it lists 435 different sources for where it got the information for the article from, but I doubt you read any of it. 

 

there is archeological evidence of Transgender people having existed at least hundreds of years before Jesus ever even set foot on this earth 

Edited October 3, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

If you scroll to the bottom it lists 435 different sources for where it got the information for the article from, but I doubt you read any of it. 

 

there is archeological evidence of Transgender people having existed at least hundreds of years before Jesus ever even set foot on this earth 

Archeological evidence?  I understand the archeologists are no longer examining the DNA so they won’t be confused by the XX and XY chromosome to taint their findings.  My God, are you guys for real.  Was Joan of Arch a non binary figure even though that term was not used in her time?  You are applying modern terms to define the past.  It foolish.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

https://historycollection.com/11-remarkable-transgender-people-history/7/

[homersapien 12,239]

19 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

You are the most disingenuous POS on this board.  You are attributing me with statements I am not making.  Your *logical* conclusions are no where near what I have said and you should stop trying to analyze what people think.  You’re not good at it.

BS.

Here's what you said:  "I said God created man and woman and intended them to populate the earth.  God also gave men and women free will.  This would include trans even though it is a recent phenomenon."

So, you included only man and woman (genders, not sexuality).

And you omitted anything about God creating sexuality - homosexuals or transgenders - which at least  implies they are were not included as part of Gods "plan".

But you did refer to "free will", thus implying that is the real source of alternative sexualities - poor choices by those affected.

All of the above is a product of logical conclusion based on what you did - and did not - say. 

The fact you don't like it, is not my problem.  In fact, restating one's opponent position in different words is a common element of debate, even if it's by inference. 

Now if I made a mistaken or disingenuous inference (quite possible) you have the opportunity to clarify what you actually did mean.

1) Did God create sexuality along with genders?

2) Do you really believe homosexuality or transgenderism is a "choice" (product of free will) or an inherent  product of their biology (which includes the brain)?

3) Do you accept that one's genitalia does not determine their sexuality but sexuality is a physiological or anatomical product of one's brain?

4) Did God create the physiology and anatomy of our brains?

Finally, by putting yourself into logical corners - and then getting mad about it to the point of name calling (POS) - it's apparent that you are the one who is not particularly "good at this". 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,876]

14 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Archeological evidence?  I understand the archeologists are no longer examining the DNA so they won’t be confused by the XX and XY chromosome to taint their findings.  My God, are you guys for real.  Was Joan of Arch a non binary figure even though that term was not used in her time?  You are applying modern terms to define the past.  It foolish.

 

A lot of terms used today weren't used in the past. I guarantee you a lot of words, phrases and interpretations in the Bible you study every Sunday would be completely foreign and incomprehensible to the people who actually existed in Biblical times. Bring John the Baptist back from the dead, read him our modern Bible...even the very book attributed to him... and he'd have no clue what you are talking about or referring to most of the time because of the different word usage and meanings between the languages and time periods. 

 

That doesn't mean the concepts aren't the same. You're right.... the modern lexicon of gender identities wasn't in use thousands of years ago.....that doesn't change the fact that people..men and women all throughout history did things to alter their gender identities.from the way they dressed, to how they used their pronouns, to how they demanded people refer to them by, to even crude surgeries to change their sex organs. 

Transexuals and transgenders themselves are not a modern concept...not even close. Just like people with different sexual preferences they have existed all through history.  

Edited October 3, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

35 minutes ago, homersapien said:

BS.

Here's what you said:  "I said God created man and woman and intended them to populate the earth.  God also gave men and women free will.  This would include trans even though it is a recent phenomenon."

So, you included only man and woman (genders, not sexuality).

And you omitted anything about creating sexuality - homosexuals or transgenders - which at least  implies they are were not included as part of Gods "plan".

But you did refer to "free will", thus implying that is the real source of alternative sexualities - poor choices by those affected.

All of the above is a product of logical conclusion based on what you did and did not say. 

The fact you don't like it, is not my problem.  In fact, restating one's opponent position in different words is a common element of debate, even if it's by inference. 

Now if I made a mistaken - or disingenuous - inference (quite possible) you have the opportunity to clarify what you actually did mean.

1) Did God create sexuality along with genders?

2) Do you really believe homosexuality or transgenderism is a "choice" (product of free will) or a product of their brains?

3) Do you accept that one's genitalia does not determine their sexuality but sexuality is a physiological or anatomical product of one's brain?

4) Did God create the physiology and anatomy of our brains?

 

Finally, by putting yourself into corners - and then getting mad about it to the point of name calling (POS) - I think that you are the one who is not particularly "good at this". 

 

 

 

Man you made my case just by now asking clarifying statements.  And if you think this conversation is continuing after your admission of being disingenuous you’re insane.

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

36 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

A lot of terms used today weren't used in the past. I guarantee you a lot of words, phrases and interpretations in the Bible you study every Sunday would be completely foreign and incomprehensible to the people who actually existed in Biblical times. Bring John the Baptist back from the dead, read him our modern Bible...even the very book attributed to him... and he'd have no clue what you are talking about or referring to most of the time because of the different word usage and meanings between the languages and time periods. 

 

That doesn't mean the concepts aren't the same. You're right.... the modern lexicon of gender identities wasn't in use thousands of years ago.....that doesn't change the fact that people..men and women all throughout history did things to alter their gender identities.from the way they dressed, to how they used their pronouns, to how they demanded people refer to them by, to even crude surgeries to change their sex organs. 

Transexuals and transgenders themselves are not a modern concept...not even close. Just like people with different sexual preferences they have existed all through history.  

Agree to disagree.

[CoffeeTiger 5,876]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Agree to disagree.

 

I guess but there wasn't really much of an argument. 

You said Transgender people didn't exist till recently. 

I and ICHY provided  links to numerous sources that prove that trangendered people have existed all throughout history 

And you're response is simply...."nope I don't believe that history or that evidence is real "  but you never offer any counter evidence or articles showing how/why its not real.

 

I'm interested. Do you have any actual sources or information that supports your belief that transpeople and the idea of transsexuality haven't existed till recently, or is this simply a case of "I believe what I believe because I believe it and nothing can ever change my mind"? 

 

 

 

[autigeremt 7,208]

[I_M4_AU 8,943]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

I guess but there wasn't really much of an argument. 

You said Transgender people didn't exist till recently. 

I and ICHY provided  links to numerous sources that prove that trangendered people have existed all throughout history 

And you're response is simply...."nope I don't believe that history or that evidence is real "  but you never offer any counter evidence or articles showing how/why its not real.

 

I'm interested. Do you have any actual sources or information that supports your belief that transpeople and the idea of transsexuality haven't existed till recently, or is this simply a case of "I believe what I believe because I believe it and nothing can ever change my mind"? 

 

 

 

The term transgender didn’t exist until the 60’s. The only way transgender people could exist prior to 1960 is assuming their identity by other means than science.  

How do archeologists determine the sex of ancient bodies:  Through DNA

Amelogenin proteins control the formation of tooth enamel, and the genetic coding controlling amelogenin protein production is located in the X and Y chromosomes -- the chromosomes responsible for sex differentiation.

Female teeth feature amelogenin-X, while male teeth contain amelogenin produced via both the X and Y chromosomes.

https://www.upi.com/Science_News/2018/11/12/Archaeologists-can-determine-a-persons-sex-by-analyzing-a-single-tooth/4381542040066/

This article was written in 2018.

In July of 2021 we have an article that tries to go beyond simple male and female:

Contemporary archaeologists tend to lump ancient people into simple categories—men and women—based on what their skeletons reveal about their biological sex.

But as feminist scholars have argued for decades, gender is socially constructed, formed through the enactment of specific roles, and need not correspond to one’s sex. Archaeologists who assume gender identities based on the skeletal sex of their ancient subjects risk missing a huge part of the picture—and falling into the so-called binary trap, archaeologist Susan Stratton writes.

https://daily.jstor.org/how-the-gender-binary-limits-archaeological-study/

So we have feminist scholars that want to change the structure of how people are identified using assumptions they have no clue if they are right or not, what a shock.  Why not just say scholars have argued, do you think feminists have some sort of agenda?  I do.  Changing the sexual identity of people that have been dead for centuries to a modern sexuality based on how they were buried does not make a good case.