Should USA be a Christian nation?

[CoffeeTiger 5,914]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

He is more like homer actually.  I think both he and coffee are disciples of homer.

 

21 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

You guys are something. Do you actually run around trying to determine motives behind “doing the right thing”? 
You have always been one of my favorite and seemly level headed posters on forum. Seems you have coffeetized.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

22 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

o you actually run around trying to determine motives behind “doing the right thing”? 

Our motives are pretty important to Jesus. 

[SaltyTiger 8,596]

4 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Our motives are pretty important to Jesus. 

What does that have to do with Lefty keeping score?

[AUFAN78 4,161]

3 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

“Welcome”? Religions other than Christianity are at liberty to exercise their faith in this country.
 

What are you attempting to get at Brother Homer? Personally I don’t go out my way to have them over for coffee and tea and doubt you do either. Outside of family and a few close friends I have few people over though.

I am headed that way shortly. If I knock please have coffee. 

[AUFAN78 4,161]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Religious people generally have several things pounded in their heads from a very young age:

1) The Religion they follow is (generally) the only correct religion in the world and is the only one that will lead to salvation 

2) Their religion is the only reason "good" and "morality" exist at all in the world. Example: If it wasn't for thousands of years of people reading in their religious book that it is wrong to kill, steal, lie, etc then humans would have no idea that those things are truly "wrong" and the world would be absolute evil and chaos without their religion. Good atheist or good people of other religions only exist because of the historical influence their own religion and their own version of God has had on society. 

3) Everyone that is not apart of their religion is out to get them, persecute them, destroy them, etc. Everyone that is not apart of their religion is against them and against their God and against everything that is good or moral or right in the world. 

4) They will be rewarded for eternity in death for believing and fighting for their religion in this life. Anyone who is not apart of their religion will face eternal punishment for not being so. 

These are very powerful and influential beliefs and statements that a lot of Religious people are raised on and that they form their entire worldview around. It's really interesting to me to see so many young people increasingly starting to break away from the religions and beliefs their parents/churches/ and sometimes even schools raised them on, and I think its good that a stronger variety of beliefs is starting to take hold in the US. 

I grew up in a Southern Baptist environment. Until the age of 16, I was at church twice on Sunday and every Wednesday evening. 

In your list of 4, I think I heard conversation around item 1 occasionally, but perhaps in different context. Items 2 and 3 I've never heard until now. I don't think this rhetoric exists. Number 4 is out of context. Your rewards in heaven comes from the acceptance of Christ in your life, not religion.

I attend Church of the Highlands now. The messages taught are the same I learned in my youth.

[SaltyTiger 8,596]

1 hour ago, AUFAN78 said:

I am headed that way shortly. If I knock please have coffee. 

No need for you to knock 78. Come on around to back patio. Happy hour usually early on fall Friday afternoons.

[SaltyTiger 8,596]

1 hour ago, AUFAN78 said:

Items 2 and 3 I've never heard until now

Why do I find that so easy to believe?

[AUFAN78 4,161]

18 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Why do I find that so easy to believe?

Truth has a way of doing that. 

[homersapien 12,262]

6 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

“Welcome”? Religions other than Christianity are at liberty to exercise their faith in this country.
 

What are you attempting to get at Brother Homer? Personally I don’t go out my way to have them over for coffee and tea and doubt you do either. Outside of family and a few close friends I have few people over though.

I am trying to discern whether you think that's a good thing or not.

I think it's good.  I think diversity in general is good for a society. In fact, I think homogeneity in a society can be dangerous - especially regarding religion. 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by homersapien

[Leftfield 3,388]

4 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

You guys are something. Do you actually run around trying to determine motives behind “doing the right thing”? 
You have always been one of my favorite and seemly level headed posters on forum. Seems you have coffeetized.

Was not my intention or expectation that my post would stir things up so much. Upon re-reading it, I can see that it might be interpreted as me trashing all religion and all religious people, which was not my intent. 

The simple fact is there are plenty of people out there that think the way I described. It's one of the reasons I lost my faith. It's arrogance to assume your religion has all the answers when there are so many other beliefs out there. It's arrogance to think that describing a person as a good Christian, or any other religion, in somehow better than just saying they're a good person. It's arrogance to assume a person is suspect because they don't believe in God. I did not intend to single out Christianity, I just used it because it was the most obvious example in the US, particularly the south. I've heard similar statements from those who practice just about every religion. I'm not calling you or anyone else on this board out and saying you are like this, but can you honestly say you don't know people who are?

As to motives behind doing the right thing, it matters. I remember so vividly when I was young and being terrified of doing something wrong, because it had been drilled into my head that God was always watching. This wasn't even done by my parents - my dad was never baptized, and my mom never emphasized it - it was taught in classes at Church and reinforced by other people in it. Years later after I began to doubt, one of the first things I asked myself was why do we have to fear consequence to be good? Why can't we just choose it on our own? Religion can be a great thing because it helps many people that need guidance and have difficulty with those decisions, but I get frustrated when people without faith are assumed to be inferior. 

As I mentioned in my earlier post, even with people that I see acting this way, I don't believe that in all, or even most, cases it is being consciously done, it's just another ingrained bias that most of us have because of how we were raised (which gets into tons of other areas that we won't get into here).

I regret if I gave the wrong impression, as I enjoy your contributions to the board, as well. It was not my intent to insult your or anyone else's beliefs, or imply I was talking about everyone with faith.

I do like @CoffeeTiger, though. 😝

[Leftfield 3,388]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

He is more like homer actually.  I think both he and coffee are disciples of homer.

No, but I do like @homersapien, too.

Will admit he can be a crotchety bastard at times, though. 😜

Edited September 23, 2022 by Leftfield

[homersapien 12,262]

3 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I grew up in a Southern Baptist environment. Until the age of 16, I was at church twice on Sunday and every Wednesday evening. 

In your list of 4, I think I heard conversation around item 1 occasionally, but perhaps in different context. Items 2 and 3 I've never heard until now. I don't think this rhetoric exists. Number 4 is out of context. Your rewards in heaven comes from the acceptance of Christ in your life, not religion.

I attend Church of the Highlands now. The messages taught are the same I learned in my youth.

"Acceptance of Christ in your life"  is most certainly a religious belief, by definition. \

Perhaps you meant to say "church"?  Church represents an organization, even if purportedly based on religious belief.

 

[homersapien 12,262]

20 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

No, but I do like @homersapien, too.

Will admit he can be a crotchety bastard at times, though. 😜

I resemble that remark! 

[homersapien 12,262]

3 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

In your list of 4, I think I heard conversation around item 1 occasionally, but perhaps in different context. Items 2 and 3 I've never heard until now. I don't think this rhetoric exists.

 

Let me enlighten you:

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/the-evangelical-persecution-complex/375506/

The Evangelical Persecution Complex

The theological and cultural roots of a damaging attitude in the Christian community

 

Not saying that this is universal among all self-professed Christians, but it certainly exists among certain segments.  

I hear - and see -  it a lot from politically active (self-identified) "Christians". 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

On 9/22/2022 at 3:13 PM, homersapien said:

Would that our constitution were as straightforward.

"France is an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic, guaranteeing that all citizens regardless of their origin, race or religion are treated as equals before the law and respecting all religious beliefs" states the Constitution of 1958."

Perhaps it's time for an update.

Would you support a constitution that permits a law banning people from wearing hijabs and/or other "conspicuous religious symbols" in the public forum?

[SaltyTiger 8,596]

5 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Was not my intention or expectation that my post would stir things up so much. Upon re-reading it, I can see that it might be interpreted as me trashing all religion and all religious people, which was not my intent. 

The simple fact is there are plenty of people out there that think the way I described. It's one of the reasons I lost my faith. It's arrogance to assume your religion has all the answers when there are so many other beliefs out there. It's arrogance to think that describing a person as a good Christian, or any other religion, in somehow better than just saying they're a good person. It's arrogance to assume a person is suspect because they don't believe in God. I did not intend to single out Christianity, I just used it because it was the most obvious example in the US, particularly the south. I've heard similar statements from those who practice just about every religion. I'm not calling you or anyone else on this board out and saying you are like this, but can you honestly say you don't know people who are?

As to motives behind doing the right thing, it matters. I remember so vividly when I was young and being terrified of doing something wrong, because it had been drilled into my head that God was always watching. This wasn't even done by my parents - my dad was never baptized, and my mom never emphasized it - it was taught in classes at Church and reinforced by other people in it. Years later after I began to doubt, one of the first things I asked myself was why do we have to fear consequence to be good? Why can't we just choose it on our own? Religion can be a great thing because it helps many people that need guidance and have difficulty with those decisions, but I get frustrated when people without faith are assumed to be inferior. 

As I mentioned in my earlier post, even with people that I see acting this way, I don't believe that in all, or even most, cases it is being consciously done, it's just another ingrained bias that most of us have because of how we were raised (which gets into tons of other areas that we won't get into here).

I regret if I gave the wrong impression, as I enjoy your contributions to the board, as well. It was not my intent to insult your or anyone else's beliefs, or imply I was talking about everyone with faith.

I do like @CoffeeTiger, though. 😝

“He is a good Christian man”. Never cared for it myself but never considered it arrogant.

” Right thing”. Some people do. Others don’t regardless of beliefs. Gets a little easier with age imo. 
 

 

[homersapien 12,262]

18 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Would you support a constitution that permits a law banning people from wearing hijabs and/or other "conspicuous religious symbols" in the public forum?

No.

[SaltyTiger 8,596]

20 hours ago, homersapien said:

I am trying to discern whether you think that's a good thing or not.

I think it's good.  I think diversity in general is good for a society. In fact, I think homogeneity in a society can be dangerous - especially regarding religion. 

 

I believe freedom of religion is good.