Rejoice! Biden is canceling up to $10K in student loans, $20K for Pell Grant recipients for borrowers making less than $125k/year

[wdefromtx 3,636]

Bright side.....at least it is $300B being spent on US citizens and not some foreign country that hates us. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by wdefromtx

[Leftfield 3,388]

54 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Just curious as to if you’ve ever served or have any concept as to how the military is structured?   
 

we either treat 18 year olds as adults or we don’t.   Either they are responsible or not?  The military, voting, ability to sign contracts, buy guns, etc.   

No, I didn't serve, and certainly don't have extensive knowledge of the complete structure. I do have some limited knowledge because of family members who have served., but I'm talking more about what I think the structure should be, not what it is.

I agree with you - either treat 18 year olds like adults or don't, and that's my point....we say you have to be 21 to drink, but you can choose to die for your country at 18? Which is it, and which should it be? In my opinion, it should be 21. We have learned much about brain development and psychology over the decades, and simply put, the human brain isn't really completely matured at age 18 for the vast majority of people, particularly males. Studies have shown that most can't completely grasp the consequences of all their actions. I don't know about you, but I did some stupid s**t from 18-21, and I was pretty boring compared to most of the people I knew. After age 21, not so much.

[autigeremt 7,240]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Yeah, but that's the point. One of the best recruitment tools our military has is assistance paying for a college education. If college is made more affordable or loans are not as burdensome then the GI bill educational benefits would be worth a lot less to people. 

 

I resent that remark. lol

[autigeremt 7,240]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

Bright side.....at least it is $300B being spent on US citizens and now some foreign country that hates us. 

Well....most of them don't hate us. Depends on the area of the country......lol 

[Didba 5,511]

30 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

I resent that remark. lol

Why?

[GoAU 1,696]

2 hours ago, Leftfield said:

No, I didn't serve, and certainly don't have extensive knowledge of the complete structure. I do have some limited knowledge because of family members who have served., but I'm talking more about what I think the structure should be, not what it is.

I agree with you - either treat 18 year olds like adults or don't, and that's my point....we say you have to be 21 to drink, but you can choose to die for your country at 18? Which is it, and which should it be? In my opinion, it should be 21. We have learned much about brain development and psychology over the decades, and simply put, the human brain isn't really completely matured at age 18 for the vast majority of people, particularly males. Studies have shown that most can't completely grasp the consequences of all their actions. I don't know about you, but I did some stupid s**t from 18-21, and I was pretty boring compared to most of the people I knew. After age 21, not so much.

Oh, I absolutely did more than my fair share.   But I also enlisted in the Army at age 18, knowing full well what I was getting myself into.   
 

i firmly agree though, that we treat 18 & 21 kind of subjectively.  I think “adulting” can be done at 18, but takes some parenting. As they grow up, and a lot of people just don’t get it, or don’t want to.   

[Didba 5,511]

2 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Oh, I absolutely did more than my fair share.   But I also enlisted in the Army at age 18, knowing full well what I was getting myself into.   
 

i firmly agree though, that we treat 18 & 21 kind of subjectively.  I think “adulting” can be done at 18, but takes some parenting. As they grow up, and a lot of people just don’t get it, or don’t want to.   

Its a case by case basis. Some are very mature at 18, some are not, hell some are still not very mature at 25.

[autigeremt 7,240]

41 minutes ago, Didba said:

Why?

It was a joke...hence the lol

[homersapien 12,262]

The arguments against Biden’s loan forgiveness plan are terrible

By Paul Waldman

 

One can make reasonable arguments against the student loan forgiveness plan President Biden announced this week. But the outright fury of the response in some quarters, and the absurd bad faith and hypocrisy being mobilized against this plan, have been a wonder to behold. And it is revealing fundamental things about the people taxpayers think the government ought to help.

To watch the reaction, you’d think this is the first loan forgiveness program in human history. You’d also think it’s absolutely vital to determine whether every last recipient will be morally deserving of this assistance, and whether any good people anywhere might fail to qualify for it. The more you examine these arguments — not only from Republicans but also journalists and a few Democrats — the weirder they seem.

At the most basic level, loan forgiveness isn’t novel or even unusual. Our bankruptcy system allows people to discharge loans every day — yet perversely, the law makes it extraordinarily difficult to get released from student loan debt even if you’re bankrupt. Some well-known people have used the bankruptcy system to eliminate their debts.

The government, furthermore, bails out people, companies and industries all the time when it decides that doing so is worthwhile. In the Great Recession we bailed out banks, insurers and auto companies. Donald Trump handed out tens of billions of dollars to farmers hit by his pointless trade war. Pandemic relief distributed hundreds of billions of dollars in forgivable Paycheck Protection Program loans to businesses.

Some of those forgiven loans — remember, taxpayer money, from truck drivers and waitresses — even went to the same Republican members of Congress who now rail against forgiving student debt, as the White House eagerly pointed out. If you’re a struggling blue-collar worker, are you mad that Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) had $183,000 in loans forgiven, or that Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.) had $1.4 million forgiven, or that Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) had $482,000 forgiven?

If not, why does student loan forgiveness make you mad?

This leads to one of the most bizarre arguments against this program: Sure, it helps some people, but what about people it doesn’t help? What about people who never went to college, or who already paid off their loans? Why should they chip in to help these other people?

That argument could be raised against almost every government program in existence. This is the nature of paying taxes and having a government: Your money goes to all kinds of things that don’t benefit you directly or that you don’t like. You pay to maintain national parks you might not visit, and to find cures for diseases you’ll never contract. You support schools even if you don’t have kids. You build roads in states you don’t live in. You support wheat farmers even if you’re on a gluten-free diet.

How many people complaining about loan forgiveness have campaigned against the mortgage interest deduction? It costs taxpayers tens of billions of dollars every year, and its recipients — homeowners who itemize their deductions — are disproportionately wealthy. Where are all the cries of “How does this help people who rent, or people who already paid off their mortgages???”

The flip side of that argument is one we’re also hearing, that some people who will get this assistance might not truly need it. Journalists are searching for supposedly undeserving recipients, no matter how small their numbers. What if there’s an engineering major who just graduated and hasn’t gotten a job yet, but next year she’ll be working at Google? My God, are we going to forgive her loans when in 10 years she could be a billionaire?

The answer to that question is, who cares? Seriously. As a taxpayer (and as someone who, yes, took out student loans and paid them off), I don’t mind if some people get relief who might do fine without it, because tens of millions of lives could be transformed by this policy. The question is how much good the program as a whole does, not whether it helps someone somewhere who doesn’t really need it. The overwhelming majority of recipients will be middle class and because it gives extra to Pell Grant recipients, people from poor families get the most help.

Finally, some people warn that the program could worsen inflation, because it will put money into the economy. The truth is that the effect on inflation will likely be minuscule, but you could raise the same objection to literally anything the government spends money on.

For instance, earlier this summer, the House passed an $839 billion military spending bill for the 2023 fiscal year — that’s one year, not over a decade. Will pumping that much money into the economy be inflationary? And if so, should we just stop funding the military?

The fact that this question probably sounds ridiculous to you is revealing: Nobody ever worries about the inflationary effect of military spending, because people make that kind of objection only to policies they don’t like.

And that’s what’s at the heart of the objections to Biden’s loan forgiveness: Most of those making them are perfectly happy to have the government help some people, just not these people. And if that’s your argument against student loan forgiveness, you haven’t shown why the program is bad; all you’ve done is reveal your argument against student loan forgiveness, you haven’t shown why the program is bad; all you’ve done is reveal yourself.

[aubiefifty 18,307]

Rolling Stone

Ryan Bort

6-8 minutes

---

Skip to main content  

‘Deadbeats’ Don’t Pay Debts, Says Trump Fed Pick Held in Contempt for Not Paying Debts

President Biden's plan to relieve student loans for millions of Americans has led to a banner week in conservative hypocrisy

Stephen Moore, Distinguished Visiting Fellow for Project for Economic Growth at The Heritage Foundation, has a conversation with Acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney on stage at the Conservative Political Action Conference 2020 (CPAC) hosted by the American Conservative Union on Feb. 28, 2020 in National Harbor, Md. Samuel Corum/Getty Images

Conservatives have been none too pleased with President Biden’s move on Wednesday to cancel $10,000 in student debt for borrowers earning less than $125,000 a year and $20,000 for Pell grant recipients. Stephen Moore, a right-wing economist former President Trump tapped for a spot on the Federal Reserve, joined the chorus on Thursday night during an appearance on Hannity.

“This isn’t what America is about,” he said of the plan to ease the financial burden on millions. “You play by the rules, and you get rewarded. If you’re not paying your debts, you’re a deadbeat.”

 

Moore shouldn’t be one to criticize those who don’t pay debts.

The Trump-loving economist and Heritage Foundation fellow was held in contempt of court in 2012 for failing to pay more than $300,000 in child support and alimony to his ex-wife. Moore’s steadfast refusal to pay his debts prompted a court order to sell his houses to satisfy them. Police even went to his home to change the locks, according to court documents, leading Moore to, finally, forked over the bulk of the money he owed his ex-wife and settle the dispute.

The Guardian reported on Moore’s alimony troubles days after Trump nominated him to serve on the board of the Federal Reserve in 2019. The outlet reported the same week that Moore also owed $75,000 in taxes, according to a claim filed by the IRS a year earlier.

Moore’s financial woes were only part of the reason his nomination was criticized. Moore has defended Robert E. Lee, said men must “be the breadwinner” in households, and argued that the lower and middle classes should be paying more in taxes. He’s also been flat wrong about a host of economic issues.

Trump ultimately withdrew the nomination, but Moore has continued to have a home prognosticating across right-wing media, including Fox News’ primetime lineup.

Moore’s comments on Thursday night add to a glut of conservative hypocrisy over Biden’s loan relief plan. Republican politicians have complained incessantly that American taxpayers shouldn’t have to help pay off the debt of college students. The White House on Thursday night posted a devastating Twitter thread highlighting several such GOP politicians who had their own Covid relief loans forgiven at the expense of — you guessed it — the American taxpayer.

 

The GOP’s attempts to disparage Biden ahead of the midterms haven’t been going so well. Gallup revealed on Thursday that the president’s approval climbed six points in August to 44 percent, its highest point in a year.

[autigeremt 7,240]

As much as I detest the condition of this country (caused by the two party machine) THEY did help to create this debacle....and as much as I feel it's a political stunt (because I don't see them giving a damn most of the time) it can be seen as only fair in some ways since the government has blood on its hands. 

Of course it's just one of many methodical "crimes" against the citizen they have committed. 

[homersapien 12,262]

Speaking of avoiding debts:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/21/carly-fiorina/trumps-four-bankruptcies/

 

[aubiefifty 18,307]

news.yahoo.com

 

Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines

Ayelet Sheffey

3-4 minutes

---

 

Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio.Drew Angerer/Getty Images

 

• The White House called out GOP lawmakers who criticized student-loan relief, but got PPP loans forgiven.

• GOP Sen. Marco Rubio called it a "lame" argument, and said the two policies shouldn't be equated.

• This came after Biden announced up to $20,000 in federal student-loan forgiveness.

President Joe Biden's White House has not held back on Republican lawmakers who have criticized student-loan forgiveness.

After Biden announced up to $20,000 in student-debt cancellation for federal borrowers on Wednesday, many GOP lawmakers were quick to slam the action, calling it costly and unfair to taxpayers and those who have already paid off their debt.

The White House was quick to respond. In a Twitter thread on Thursday, it listed all of the Republicans who have been unhappy with student-loan forgiveness, alongside the amount of loans that previously had forgiven through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP), which was pandemic aid created in 2020 to help businesses.

Republican Sen. Marco Rubio doesn't see any validity in that comparison. In a Fox News op-ed on Friday morning, Rubio — who helped create PPP — wrote that "Biden's student debt forgiveness plan could not be more different, despite his lame attempts to draw similarities between the two."

"Let's start with the obvious: federal student loans were just that, loans. The whole idea was that students would take the loans to pay for an education that would lead to a job that repays them (along with the massive interest accumulated)," Rubio wrote.

"There are other practical differences as well," he added. "The president is now asking those same small business owners and employees, most of whom never went to college, to shoulder the burden of college debt for others."

Rubio's Chief of Staff Michael Needham also took on the issue on Twitter, saying that PPP was "conceived as 'forgivable' from Day 1 conditioned on keeping workers on payroll, to meet a particular set of circumstances our nation faced in a moment of crisis. That is in no way comparable to what the Biden folks are doing on student loans."

Some Republican lawmakers the White House singled out for having their PPP loans forgiven responded, as well. GOP Rep. Markwayne Mullin called it an "ignorant attack from a career politician who has never created a single job. 74 days before midterms, Joe Biden is targeting business owners for protecting their employees from government lockdowns. President Trump always supported American workers and job creators."

Still, Democratic lawmakers have continued to push back on conservative critiques of Biden's student-loan forgiveness. For example, after Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell released a statement condemning Biden's actions, Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren said that "McConnell graduated from a school that cost $330 a year. Today it costs over $12,000. McConnell has done nothing to fix it — and is irate that the President is stepping up to help millions of working Americans drowning in debt. He can spare us the lectures on fairness."

Read the original article on Business Inside

[DKW 86 7,914]

On 8/25/2022 at 9:04 AM, autigeremt said:

I am real. It’s unconstitutional (Pelosi even said so in 2021). The president doesn’t have the authority and he knows it. 

None of that matters. It benefits a bunch of rich white folks kids. 

I want you to know that even with my son in school, we get nothing. Not a cent. Of course, I am middle class, why would it ever benefit us?

[DKW 86 7,914]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Speaking of avoiding debts:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/21/carly-fiorina/trumps-four-bankruptcies/

 

Washington DC is for the rich after all...

[DKW 86 7,914]

8 hours ago, arein0 said:

So let me get this straight. Trump spent $7.8 Trillion, lowered the government's revenue with corporate tax cuts (making it harder to pay off and the average American wont see any of that tax cut), and is being hailed as a demigod by MAGA? 

But Republicans are upset at Biden for spending $300B on people that actually need the money.

Why is it okay for corporate bailouts but not okay for an individual?

As for inflation, one could have a valid argument that the inflation period we are in is a result of Trump's spending.

THIS. 

I am upset that the people getting the money really dont need it. My son is in college, we dont get s***.

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by DKW 86

[DKW 86 7,914]

On 8/24/2022 at 5:26 PM, TexasTiger said:

Just renting ‘em.

Kudos for admitting the truth....

[DKW 86 7,914]

On 8/25/2022 at 9:04 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

Fox News going absolutely apocalyptic over this. Love to see it. This is how you know it's helping poor and middle class people more than it is the rich. 

Really, paying off the debts if rich people is doing something for the middle class? Strange views there people.

[AU9377 6,057]

5 hours ago, GoAU said:

How about we take a look at what has caused the university costs to rise so much?   There are two sides to every equation.  

Just curious as to if you’ve ever served or have any concept as to how the military is structured?   
 

we either treat 18 year olds as adults or we don’t.   Either they are responsible or not?  The military, voting, ability to sign contracts, buy guns, etc.   

Costs have risen for a multitude of reasons.  Universities spend as though money grows on trees, buildings are razed and buildings are built, staff sizes swell, budgets are often ignored and state funding can't cover all of it.

As for the importance of a degree.... Having one, regardless of major, never hurts.  I believe that we are all better off the more educated we are as a society.

Edited August 26, 2022 by AU9377

[Didba 5,511]

9 hours ago, autigeremt said:

It was a joke...hence the lol

Wooshe, my bad

[Didba 5,511]

7 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

None of that matters. It benefits a bunch of rich white folks kids. 

I want you to know that even with my son in school, we get nothing. Not a cent. Of course, I am middle class, why would it ever benefit us?

It literally benefits Pell grantees more than anyone, pell grants are only for the impoverished. Further, it benefits me and many of my friends who are solidly middle class households. You are just wrong. It is benefitting many of the middle class. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Didba

[Didba 5,511]

7 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

THIS. 

I am upset that the people getting the money really dont need it.

 

[Didba 5,511]

7 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Really, paying off the debts if rich people is doing something for the middle class? Strange views there people.

You do know that kids can’t qualify for student loans if their parents make over a certain amount or they receive a certain amount from aid from their parents every year?

[DKW 86 7,914]

7 hours ago, Didba said:

It literally benefits Pell grantees more than anyone, pell grants are only for the impoverished. Further, it benefits me and many of my friends who are solidly middle class households. You are just wrong. It is benefitting many of the middle class. 

OMG...how myopic. Almost anyone qualifies for Pell Grants. Hell, most of the athletes in America, no matter where they come from are now on Pell Grants. PGs are tools to aid colleges in recruiting students of all stripes.

[DKW 86 7,914]

6 hours ago, Didba said:

You do know that kids can’t qualify for student loans if their parents make over a certain amount or they receive a certain amount from aid from their parents every year?

You dont understand that that has really nothing to do with the reality. You are just picking what you want to see here. I am telling you that I have a kid in college, with some college loans at the moment, making less than $125K/year and no one I know qualifies for this s***. THAT is the reality. You are deliberately missing the point here. 

Let me try again: Pols say things that arent true in any sense of the word all day long and 2x on Sunday. This is one of those times.