Rejoice! Biden is canceling up to $10K in student loans, $20K for Pell Grant recipients for borrowers making less than $125k/year

[GoAU 1,696]

13 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

My masters degree only cost about $6,000.00.  Education was more heavily subsidized at the time.  I have no issue with helping people get more education.  I have no problem with education being subsidized.  It is NOT a pure expense.  It is more of an investment.  There is a return.

 

 

There is a return on some degrees for sure.   There are some degrees I would absolutely challenge that notion on however.   

[GoAU 1,696]

14 hours ago, Didba_ said:

I think by competition he meant that Universities are constantly building, growing, expanding to compete with each other for students.  New construction, more professors, more classes, etc.  So when one university in a state upgrades its facilities others follow suit thus leading to competition that drives prices up instead of down as it normally does.  The more the University has to spend to upgrade the higher they charge tuition.  Same with professor salaries.

And this is where it absolutely has to come down to both the schools and the students doing a cost / benefit analysis on the spending.  The fact that most college education is financed through loans is part of the problem - a lot of people aren’t thinking of the implications of what they are doing.   What we are seeing is the beginning of a lot of people realizing their degrees (if they actually graduated) don’t have a payback.   You know, maybe financing $80k to get a liberal arts degree to end up waiting tables wasn’t a good financial decision?   
 

The market needs to adjust to reality.   Just “forgiving” the debt (i.e. transferring it onto the bank is of taxpayers) doesn’t address the problem - it extends it.   

[Didba 5,511]

3 hours ago, GoAU said:

And this is where it absolutely has to come down to both the schools and the students doing a cost / benefit analysis on the spending.  The fact that most college education is financed through loans is part of the problem - a lot of people aren’t thinking of the implications of what they are doing.   What we are seeing is the beginning of a lot of people realizing their degrees (if they actually graduated) don’t have a payback.   You know, maybe financing $80k to get a liberal arts degree to end up waiting tables wasn’t a good financial decision?   
 

The market needs to adjust to reality.   Just “forgiving” the debt (i.e. transferring it onto the bank is of taxpayers) doesn’t address the problem - it extends it.   

No doubt this is just a band-aid and tuition reform is needed big time. 

[arein0 1,106]

3 hours ago, GoAU said:

And this is where it absolutely has to come down to both the schools and the students doing a cost / benefit analysis on the spending.  The fact that most college education is financed through loans is part of the problem - a lot of people aren’t thinking of the implications of what they are doing.   What we are seeing is the beginning of a lot of people realizing their degrees (if they actually graduated) don’t have a payback.   You know, maybe financing $80k to get a liberal arts degree to end up waiting tables wasn’t a good financial decision?   
 

The market needs to adjust to reality.   Just “forgiving” the debt (i.e. transferring it onto the bank is of taxpayers) doesn’t address the problem - it extends it.   

I think they also capped the interest rate on student loans at 5% which is a big step to solving the issue. Most of these students were taking on debt without really knowing the financial consequences. I understand that they didnt have to take out the loan, but when society is telling you that you have to go to college to start your career, you don't have parents that can invest in you, and you cant get scholarships to cover the cost, what are you going to do? Keep in mind that you are asking an 18 year old that doesnt truly know the value of the dollar, not a 30 year old that's had to overcome some financial struggles.

Edited August 26, 2022 by arein0
Formatting

[arein0 1,106]

3 hours ago, GoAU said:

$300,000,000,000 in debt during a period of inflation in an administration that has spent over 4 TRILLION dollars in 2 years is part of the reason many Republicans aren’t behind this.  
 

Another reason is that it is just a blast at attempt to buy votes prior to an mid term election by a president that has had approval ratings worse than a dumpster fire, using authority that may very well be unconstitutional is another reason.  
 

I don’t think many people really celebrated PPP - but when the government forced many of these businesses to shut down, you can see the point of trying to offset some of that burden.   No one forced these student to take out these loans.   

So let me get this straight. Trump spent $7.8 Trillion, lowered the government's revenue with corporate tax cuts (making it harder to pay off and the average American wont see any of that tax cut), and is being hailed as a demigod by MAGA? 

But Republicans are upset at Biden for spending $300B on people that actually need the money.

Why is it okay for corporate bailouts but not okay for an individual?

As for inflation, one could have a valid argument that the inflation period we are in is a result of Trump's spending.

[CoffeeTiger 5,914]

Republicans are the gift that keep on giving:

 

[TexasTiger 14,364]

9 hours ago, arein0 said:

I dont fully understand why Republicans are getting so upset over this. How is it celebrated to give PPP loan forgiveness to businesses during COVID (which most laid off employees and pocketed the cash), but not okay to give individuals loan forgiveness for trying to better themselves by getting an education?

It’s mostly about stirring up resentment for most elected Republicans. And I’m  not sold on it as a policy matter— what’s the next step? Costs are too high & that is at the state level. Universities are in competition driven by presidents focused on their own agendas and legacies with no one thinking big picture or long-term. The university arms race ain’t just in football.

[Didba 5,511]

40 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Republicans are the gift that keep on giving:

 

Holy Sh*t

[Didba 5,511]

 

 

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,914]

Good response to all the old Republicans bragging about how they paid their own way through college and didn't need handouts. If you went to college in the early 90's or earlier, you had a lot more of the costs of your education covered by state and federal funding from the very start. Colleges today have vastly less funding compared to the costs for them to operate and have passed almost all of that shortfall onto students to cover either out of pocket or with student loans. 

 

 

https://www.al.com/news/2022/08/student-debt-wouldnt-be-necessary-if-we-funded-higher-ed-like-we-used-to.html

 

In 1980, student tuition at Alabama public colleges and universities accounted for 27% of all revenue.

 

That other 73%? Where did most of the money come from to run a state college?

It came from state and federal funding, in addition to foundations and other nonprofit institutions, according to data from the State Higher Education Executive Officers Association.

But mostly it came from the state.

The trouble is today, higher ed funding doesn’t work like that anymore.

 

As the costs of higher ed have risen, state governments haven’t kept up with the costs or have directed tax dollars to other things. In the last 40 years, the burden has shifted to students and their families — and that shift accelerated dramatically since the Great Recession struck.

 

“In over half of all states, tuition revenue comprises more than 50% of total revenues,” the State Higher Education Executive Officers Association found.

 

Of course, here in Alabama, it’s a lot worse than that.

 

Today, tuition in an Alabama public college or university pays 67% of the costs of higher education. In Alabama’s four-year colleges, it’s 74%.

 

To review, in 1980, students’ tuition was 27% of higher ed revenue. Today in Alabama, it’s 74.

Since 1980, net tuition revenue (what students pay) has risen 425.8% among Alabama public colleges and universities, according to the report.

Meanwhile, state appropriations have risen just 8%.

 

Let’s say that again for emphasis: What Alabama students pay has more than quintupled. What the state pays has barely moved.

 

This is the root of our problem. But don’t count on help from Moore and his cohort. They already got theirs.

Now, they want to attack Biden. That’s it.

[Leftfield 3,388]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Republicans are the gift that keep on giving:

 

In fairness, maybe he was talking about the GI Bill?

[CoffeeTiger 5,914]

1 minute ago, Leftfield said:

In fairness, maybe he was talking about the GI Bill?

Yeah, but that's the point. One of the best recruitment tools our military has is assistance paying for a college education. If college is made more affordable or loans are not as burdensome then the GI bill educational benefits would be worth a lot less to people. 

 

[Leftfield 3,388]

12 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Yeah, but that's the point. One of the best recruitment tools our military has is assistance paying for a college education. If college is made more affordable or loans are not as burdensome then the GI bill educational benefits would be worth a lot less to people. 

 

Sure, it just seemed like everyone was making it out as only having a military career instead of an alternate path to college. 

I'm still of the opinion that we should limit 18-21 year-olds in the military to non-combat roles unless absolutely necessary. 

[GoAU 1,696]

2 hours ago, arein0 said:

I think they also capped the interest rate on student loans at 5% which is a big step to solving the issue. Most of these students were taking on debt without really knowing the financial consequences. I understand that they didnt have to take out the loan, but when society is telling you that you have to go to college to start your career, you don't have parents that can invest in you, and you cant get scholarships to cover the cost, what are you going to do? Keep in mind that you are asking an 18 year old that doesnt truly know the value of the dollar, not a 30 year old that's had to overcome some financial struggles.

I understand exactly what you are saying, but by age 18 you should be aware that decisions have consequences.   In addition to the student, this also falls on parents, and even the public HS for not educating people as to what a “loan” means - but most are very capable and do understand- even if they choose not to admit it.  I have 2 kids through college, and one currently in, and they full well understand what they are committing to before they sign the loan.  Heck, at age 18 you can enlist in the military - that has consequences as well.  

As to “what are you going to do” - the answer has to be “make an informed decision to the best of your ability”.  Having our nation incur another HALF TRILLION dollars of debt because they didn’t know better is a horrible precedent.   

An 18 year old should absolutely learn the value of a dollar.  I did when I took out loans (and worked 3 jobs) to put myself through college.   If these 18 year olds aren’t smart enough to do this, why do we trust them to have a vote in how the country is run?   I believe they are smart enough, but as long as we allow them to play “victim”, they will.  

[GoAU 1,696]

2 hours ago, arein0 said:

So let me get this straight. Trump spent $7.8 Trillion, lowered the government's revenue with corporate tax cuts (making it harder to pay off and the average American wont see any of that tax cut), and is being hailed as a demigod by MAGA? 

But Republicans are upset at Biden for spending $300B on people that actually need the money.

Why is it okay for corporate bailouts but not okay for an individual?

As for inflation, one could have a valid argument that the inflation period we are in is a result of Trump's spending.

Not sure where to start, but I’ll try to paint a clear picture for you.  A lower percentage of a much higher number can yield more tax dollars.  Conversely, when an administration destroys an economy (such as Biden is trying to do) you can charge more taxes (and hire another 87k IRS agents to collect them) but still yield a lower number.  
 

our issues are not on the revenue side - the average American works for the first 4-6 months of a year his to pay all of our various taxes.   Our issue is spending - our government (both parties) spends like drunken sailors and has no regard to what will happen as a result.  It won’t be much longer before the interest on our debt exceeds our GDP and then all hell will break loose.  
 

I’m upset at Biden for much more than the 300-600 Billion dollars he frivolously (and likely unconstitutionally) just threw away.   As to how you feel these people “needed” the money - there are a lot of people that need money.   What about all the hard working people that chose to forgo college and start working that get to foot the bill for all the waiters with their “lesbian dance theory” college degrees??

[GoAU 1,696]

3 hours ago, Didba said:

No doubt this is just a band-aid and tuition reform is needed big time. 

I’d love to hear how you think the government can mandate tuition reform while maintaining a free market economy?   How about they institute “gas price reform”, “medical cost reform”. “grocery reform”, and “housing reform” as well?  
 

“More government involvement” is usually an answer that results in more problems and less freedoms.  

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Political psychology is disturbing and, fascinating.  

[GoAU 1,696]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Good response to all the old Republicans bragging about how they paid their own way through college and didn't need handouts. If you went to college in the early 90's or earlier, you had a lot more of the costs of your education covered by state and federal funding from the very start. Colleges today have vastly less funding compared to the costs for them to operate and have passed almost all of that shortfall onto students to cover either out of pocket or with student loans. 

 

 

https://www.al.com/news/2022/08/student-debt-wouldnt-be-necessary-if-we-funded-higher-ed-like-we-used-to.html

 

In 1980, student tuition at Alabama public colleges and universities accounted for 27% of all revenue.

 

That other 73%? Where did most of the money come from to run a state college?

It came from state and federal funding, in addition to foundations and other nonprofit institutions, according to data from the State Higher Education Executive Officers Association.

But mostly it came from the state.

The trouble is today, higher ed funding doesn’t work like that anymore.

 

As the costs of higher ed have risen, state governments haven’t kept up with the costs or have directed tax dollars to other things. In the last 40 years, the burden has shifted to students and their families — and that shift accelerated dramatically since the Great Recession struck.

 

“In over half of all states, tuition revenue comprises more than 50% of total revenues,” the State Higher Education Executive Officers Association found.

 

Of course, here in Alabama, it’s a lot worse than that.

 

Today, tuition in an Alabama public college or university pays 67% of the costs of higher education. In Alabama’s four-year colleges, it’s 74%.

 

To review, in 1980, students’ tuition was 27% of higher ed revenue. Today in Alabama, it’s 74.

Since 1980, net tuition revenue (what students pay) has risen 425.8% among Alabama public colleges and universities, according to the report.

Meanwhile, state appropriations have risen just 8%.

 

Let’s say that again for emphasis: What Alabama students pay has more than quintupled. What the state pays has barely moved.

 

This is the root of our problem. But don’t count on help from Moore and his cohort. They already got theirs.

Now, they want to attack Biden. That’s it.

How about we take a look at what has caused the university costs to rise so much?   There are two sides to every equation.  

52 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Sure, it just seemed like everyone was making it out as only having a military career instead of an alternate path to college. 

I'm still of the opinion that we should limit 18-21 year-olds in the military to non-combat roles unless absolutely necessary. 

Just curious as to if you’ve ever served or have any concept as to how the military is structured?   
 

we either treat 18 year olds as adults or we don’t.   Either they are responsible or not?  The military, voting, ability to sign contracts, buy guns, etc.   

[Didba 5,511]

36 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I understand exactly what you are saying, but by age 18 you should be aware that decisions have consequences.   In addition to the student, this also falls on parents, and even the public HS for not educating people as to what a “loan” means - but most are very capable and do understand- even if they choose not to admit it.  I have 2 kids through college, and one currently in, and they full well understand what they are committing to before they sign the loan.  Heck, at age 18 you can enlist in the military - that has consequences as well.  

As to “what are you going to do” - the answer has to be “make an informed decision to the best of your ability”.  Having our nation incur another HALF TRILLION dollars of debt because they didn’t know better is a horrible precedent.   

An 18 year old should absolutely learn the value of a dollar.  I did when I took out loans (and worked 3 jobs) to put myself through college.   If these 18 year olds aren’t smart enough to do this, why do we trust them to have a vote in how the country is run?   I believe they are smart enough, but as long as we allow them to play “victim”, they will.  

Just an anecdote but at my public HS the school pushed a slogan "Failure not an option, Every child goes to college", you know how much loan counseling they provided? Zero. You know how often they reminded students to sign up for student loans to make sure they could go to college? Countless times.

[Didba 5,511]

29 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Not sure where to start, but I’ll try to paint a clear picture for you.  A lower percentage of a much higher number can yield more tax dollars.  Conversely, when an administration destroys an economy (such as Biden is trying to do) you can charge more taxes (and hire another 87k IRS agents to collect them) but still yield a lower number.  
 

our issues are not on the revenue side - the average American works for the first 4-6 months of a year his to pay all of our various taxes.   Our issue is spending - our government (both parties) spends like drunken sailors and has no regard to what will happen as a result.  It won’t be much longer before the interest on our debt exceeds our GDP and then all hell will break loose.  
 

I’m upset at Biden for much more than the 300-600 Billion dollars he frivolously (and likely unconstitutionally) just threw away.   As to how you feel these people “needed” the money - there are a lot of people that need money.   What about all the hard working people that chose to forgo college and start working that get to foot the bill for all the waiters with their “lesbian dance theory” college degrees??

I'd love to see the actual percentage of degrees earned that fall under your "lesbian dance theory".

It's best when having these discussions to not say dumb sh*t like that because its hard for the rest of us to take you seriously.

Just say liberal arts degree.  It gets the same idea across.

[Didba 5,511]

28 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I’d love to hear how you think the government can mandate tuition reform while maintaining a free market economy?   How about they institute “gas price reform”, “medical cost reform”. “grocery reform”, and “housing reform” as well?  
 

“More government involvement” is usually an answer that results in more problems and less freedoms. 

Sure, public universities are partially or wholly run by state governments. Gas station, private hospitals, grocery stores and housing are not.

Congress can regulate higher education through the commerce clause.

As for your third sentence, that is wholly dependent on the circumstances. There have been situations where more government involvement resulted in more freedoms and less problems.

[Didba 5,511]

28 minutes ago, GoAU said:

How about we take a look at what has caused the university costs to rise so much?   There are two sides to every equation.  

Just curious as to if you’ve ever served or have any concept as to how the military is structured?   
 

we either treat 18 year olds as adults or we don’t.   Either they are responsible or not?  The military, voting, ability to sign contracts, buy guns, etc.   

Drink alcohol, oh wait... lol

/s

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Other generations have enjoyed taxpayer subsidized education.  These people deserve the same.

We all benefit. 

[arein0 1,106]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

It’s mostly about stirring up resentment for most elected Republicans. And I’m  not sold on it as a policy matter— what’s the next step? Costs are too high & that is at the state level. Universities are in competition driven by presidents focused on their own agendas and legacies with no one thinking big picture or long-term. The university arms race ain’t just in football.

I agree that it is only a minor fix to a bigger issue. However, when you have a major issue at work or at home, do you try to fix it all at once, or do you address parts puzzle to slowly resolve it. My opinion is that this is the low hanging fruit. Clear out some debt and cap the predatory interest rates. 

[wdefromtx 3,636]

13 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The real problem is that schools, all schools, have used the loan program to hike tuition thru the roof and pay for all sorts of things that state legislatures and other resources won't fund.  Alabama and Auburn have not sat on the sidelines.  Both have pushed out of state fees while purposefully recruiting more out of state students knowing the benefit will be the enormous tuition that they will pay.  That tuition is financed by the Federal govt thru the loan programs.

Exactly, and doing what they are doing doesn't address it. In fact it will make it worse.