Rejoice! Biden is canceling up to $10K in student loans, $20K for Pell Grant recipients for borrowers making less than $125k/year

[Didba 5,511]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

I am real. It’s unconstitutional (Pelosi even said so in 2021). The president doesn’t have the authority and he knows it. 

6 hours ago, GoAU said:

Appreciate the clarification.  So this all ties back to when Obama federalized the student loans.   Seems to be a pretty big overstep to me, as controlling the purse strings has always been more of a legislative function.  
 

at one point, as odd as it sounds, even Pelosi agreed:

But with it being mid terms and all, even she’s towing the party line on this.  It’s just horrible attempt to buy votes without any concern for the long term federal debt ramifications.   Seems odd how they can pass the “Inflation Reduction Act” (good marketing, but not true) one week and brag about long term debt reduction and then a couple of weeks completely offset even the most favorable projections they could put together for it.  

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/leg/foia/secretarys-legal-authority-for-debt-cancellation.pdf

Apparently, you initial assessment was semi-correct @GoAU

Also, @autigeremt FYI. This explains it for you. I don't know how you "know" the president doesn't have the authority. Speaking above your pay-grade a little there.  It will probably end up in a lawsuit and then we will know but right now, we don't know for certain.

[I_M4_AU 8,980]

1 hour ago, Didba_ said:

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/leg/foia/secretarys-legal-authority-for-debt-cancellation.pdf

Apparently, you initial assessment was semi-correct @GoAU

Also, @autigeremt FYI. This explains it for you. I don't know how you "know" the president doesn't have the authority. Speaking above your pay-grade a little there.  It will probably end up in a lawsuit and then we will know but right now, we don't know for certain.

Does it seem odd to you that the *Inflation Reduction Act* just pasted and Biden didn’t include this debt forgiveness while it would then be Constitutional.  Would it be that Manchin would not go through with the vote?

Could the timing have anything to do with Fauci retiring at the end of the year and Biden’s *national emergency* might disappear with his retirement?  By any stretch of the imagination Covid can no longer be designated as a national emergency.

Therefore, it appears this will be another incidence of the courts determining the outcome.

Edited August 25, 2022 by I_M4_AU

[GoAU 1,696]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

My god Brandon...you MONSTER!

 

Helping them with even more of a tax burden, even if they didn’t go to college.  Yeah, I’m sure that’s the kind of “help” everyone wanted…..

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Fox News going absolutely apocalyptic over this. Love to see it. This is how you know it's helping poor and middle class people more than it is the rich. 

Once again, define “help”?   Piling more and national debt onto a struggle economy and making everyone pay for people college (even those that didn’t go) doesn’t seem like “help” to me.  
 

Biden is spending money faster than a drunken sailor, and all of us (and our children and grandchildren) will be paying for it for decades to come.  Before the Trump haters start crying that Trump spent money too, yes, he did but not at this clip and not as irresponsibly.  

[AUDub 11,974]

45 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Helping them with even more of a tax burden, even if they didn’t go to college.  Yeah, I’m sure that’s the kind of “help” everyone wanted…..

Think of it like public school systems in general. When people pay their local taxes they're funding those schools.

Should people without kids be exempt? 

[aubiefifty 18,307]

3 hours ago, autigeremt said:

I am real. It’s unconstitutional (Pelosi even said so in 2021). The president doesn’t have the authority and he knows it. 

i am and always have been for the little people. this country allows corps to pay little or no taxes. the money people always get what they want. they have been getting away with it for years so if someone catches a break i am all for it. look at how it was in the seventies with fams working one job while owning a house and sending kids to college. now? good luck with that. and with prices of gas and food i imagine it is a blessing to many out there. the system has been gamed by the rich. a ceo can fail a company and still get a 200 mil bonus and yet how many times have the little people been treated right? two stimulus checks in a little over a year while most of your corps get theirs constantly. the thing is the people pay taxes too. and the two things helping the lower class are obama care and social security and the other side is always beating the drum to remove both of them. and some are serious and not just talking politics. i hope with the pay raises offered things level off some and get back to the seventies when a man had a chance. i personally think too many people in this country have never gone hungry. i have and i am NOT bragging. it sux. your stomach hurts and all you can do is drink some water which will ease it for about five minutes or so. children should never go hungry. it stunts their growth and i imagine kills brain cells.

   now i am not aiming this at you but all the guys upset about some of the loan forgiveness are not happy so i used your post to further my own points. i am happy for it. i live at the poverty line and yet i live alone so i get no assistance at all. i am hoping this gives children more clothes to wear and more food on their plate.

[aubiefifty 18,307]

[aubiefifty 18,307]

[GoAU 1,696]

49 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Think of it like public school systems in general. When people pay their local taxes they're funding those schools.

Should people without kids be exempt? 

I see your point, but think of it this way - public universities already receive funding AND tuition.   This isn’t a new or surprise to those that made the decision to take the loans.  And I say this as a father of 2 kids who have finished college, one who is currently in, and three that will make that decision when they finish high school.  
 

Biden should not have the authority to do this and Inwould imagine this is heading to court in short order.  
 

it’s a disingenuous way to try and buy votes and we have to stop treating the government like a free “slush fund”.  The rate of the deficit growth should freighter people, yet we’re happily going down the road to disaster.  

[GoAU 1,696]

5 hours ago, AUDub said:

This has been a common complaint with regard to universities for centuries, but the biggest reason for the exploding cost of tuition has more to do with the recent trend of shifting the burden from the taxpayers to the students. The "small government" ideology. As universities stopped getting the majority of their funding from the public, they were pushed into a competitive market that depended heavily on securing high enrollment numbers.

Universities should not have to compete with each other in order to not go bankrupt, but that's where we're at. All the administrative overhead, all the amenities, all the increasingly broad course offerings? All designed to attract more students because the school depends on that tuition to keep the lights on in a way they didn't before.

As for the students, well the loans did help to absorb some of the blow so cost has been tolerated to a degree, but it was always going end up an untenable situation.

It seems odd that you think that universities competing with each other is what is making their costs rise.  Everywhere else in the economy competition helps to reduce costs and provide better services.  I’m not sure you’re connecting the right dots.   

[Didba 5,511]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Does it seem odd to you that the *Inflation Reduction Act* just pasted and Biden didn’t include this debt forgiveness while it would then be Constitutional.  Would it be that Manchin would not go through with the vote? Probably

Could the timing have anything to do with Fauci retiring at the end of the year and Biden’s *national emergency* might disappear with his retirement?  By any stretch of the imagination Covid can no longer be designated as a national emergency. It very well could.

Therefore, it appears this will be another incidence of the courts determining the outcome. No doubt on this.

 

[Didba 5,511]

13 minutes ago, GoAU said:

It seems odd that you think that universities competing with each other is what is making their costs rise.  Everywhere else in the economy competition helps to reduce costs and provide better services.  I’m not sure you’re connecting the right dots.   

I think by competition he meant that Universities are constantly building, growing, expanding to compete with each other for students.  New construction, more professors, more classes, etc.  So when one university in a state upgrades its facilities others follow suit thus leading to competition that drives prices up instead of down as it normally does.  The more the University has to spend to upgrade the higher they charge tuition.  Same with professor salaries.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

My masters degree only cost about $6,000.00.  Education was more heavily subsidized at the time.  I have no issue with helping people get more education.  I have no problem with education being subsidized.  It is NOT a pure expense.  It is more of an investment.  There is a return.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by icanthearyou

[autigeremt 7,240]

3 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i am and always have been for the little people. this country allows corps to pay little or no taxes. the money people always get what they want. they have been getting away with it for years so if someone catches a break i am all for it. look at how it was in the seventies with fams working one job while owning a house and sending kids to college. now? good luck with that. and with prices of gas and food i imagine it is a blessing to many out there. the system has been gamed by the rich. a ceo can fail a company and still get a 200 mil bonus and yet how many times have the little people been treated right? two stimulus checks in a little over a year while most of your corps get theirs constantly. the thing is the people pay taxes too. and the two things helping the lower class are obama care and social security and the other side is always beating the drum to remove both of them. and some are serious and not just talking politics. i hope with the pay raises offered things level off some and get back to the seventies when a man had a chance. i personally think too many people in this country have never gone hungry. i have and i am NOT bragging. it sux. your stomach hurts and all you can do is drink some water which will ease it for about five minutes or so. children should never go hungry. it stunts their growth and i imagine kills brain cells.

   now i am not aiming this at you but all the guys upset about some of the loan forgiveness are not happy so i used your post to further my own points. i am happy for it. i live at the poverty line and yet i live alone so i get no assistance at all. i am hoping this gives children more clothes to wear and more food on their plate.

All those things you pointed out has to paid for by someone....and with the tax breaks and high dollar accountants out there servicing the well to do you can guess who pays the bill. The middle class.....shrinking as we may. 

I came from the little guy. Hell I was born in a five room mill hill house (123 Rock View Street, Easley SC) and left to be reared by my grandmother and great aunt until adopted by my uncle. I also came from a hard working group of people who didn't accept a handout if possible, accepted personal responsibility and took care of themselves as best they could. From the fields to the cotton mills. 

At the end of the day this presidential rouse is a vote getting ploy. Nothing more. They are a bunch of lying fools.

[autigeremt 7,240]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

My masters degree only cost about $6,000.00.  Education was more heavily subsidized at the time.  I have no issue with helping people get more education.  I have no problem with education being subsidized.  It is NOT a pure expense.  It is more of an investment.  There is a return.

 

 

Yeah but a lot of these degrees have little return on their own investment and they chose, knowingly, to take out a loan for a school like Auburn when they could have gotten an education at Southern Union and transferred in...saving them thousands of dollars in expenses. Schools often told the student how to spend their money as well....which drove up the total cost of education. In my opinion student housing should be free at public institutions. This issue is much bigger and the root of it is political extortion. 

[autigeremt 7,240]

2 hours ago, Didba_ said:

I think by competition he meant that Universities are constantly building, growing, expanding to compete with each other for students.  New construction, more professors, more classes, etc.  So when one university in a state upgrades its facilities others follow suit thus leading to competition that drives prices up instead of down as it normally does.  The more the University has to spend to upgrade the higher they charge tuition.  Same with professor salaries.

Just like Athletics.....it's an arms race. No longer about the education as much as it is about access to those federal loan driven dollars. 

[autigeremt 7,240]

2 hours ago, GoAU said:

It seems odd that you think that universities competing with each other is what is making their costs rise.  Everywhere else in the economy competition helps to reduce costs and provide better services.  I’m not sure you’re connecting the right dots.   

It's a big part of it, GoAU. I've got 17 years of experience here at Auburn University and this is one area (having served on various committees) I have some background in. 

 

You know...part of my "training"...lol 

[autigeremt 7,240]

5 hours ago, Didba_ said:

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/leg/foia/secretarys-legal-authority-for-debt-cancellation.pdf

Apparently, you initial assessment was semi-correct @GoAU

Also, @autigeremt FYI. This explains it for you. I don't know how you "know" the president doesn't have the authority. Speaking above your pay-grade a little there.  It will probably end up in a lawsuit and then we will know but right now, we don't know for certain.

Well since I am his boss (you know...the American citizen and all) and I know he can't unilaterally forgive federally backed loans without the approval of congress.......I will side with this being shot down in a blaze of glory. But hey, whatever dog. 

[Didba 5,511]

6 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Well since I am his boss (you know...the American citizen and all) and I know he can't unilaterally forgive federally backed loans without the approval of congress.......I will side with this being shot down in a blaze of glory. But hey, whatever dog. 

"The HEROES Act, first enacted in the wake of the September 11 attacks, provides the Secretary broad authority to grant relief from student loan requirements during specific periods (a war, other military operation, or national emergency, such as the present COVID-19 pandemic) and
for specific purposes (including to address the financial harms of such a war, other military operation, or emergency). The Secretary of Education has used this authority, under both this and every prior administration since the Act’s passage, to provide relief to borrowers in connection with a war, other military operation, or national emergency, including the ongoing moratorium on student loan payments and interest

Specifically, the HEROES Act authorizes the Secretary to “waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs” if the Secretary “deems” such waivers or modifications “necessary to ensure” at least one of several enumerated purposes, including that borrowers are “not placed in a worse position financially” because of a national emergency. 20 U.S.C. § 1098bb(a)(1), (2)(A).

Several provisions of the HEROES Act indicate that Congress intended the Act to confer broad authority under the circumstances, and for the purposes, specified by the Act.

• First, the Act grants authority “[n]otwithstanding any other provision of law, unless enacted with specific reference to this section.” Id. § 1098bb(a)(1).
• Second, the Act authorizes the Secretary to waive or modify “any” statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs. Id. § 1098bb(a)(1), (a)(2).
• Third, the Act expressly authorizes the Secretary to issue such waivers and modifications as he “deems necessary in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.” Id. § 1098bb(a)(1).

The Supreme Court has recognized that, in empowering a federal official to act as that official “deems necessary” in circumstances specified by a statute, Congress has granted the official broad discretion to take such action.  This authority is not, however, boundless: it is limited, inter alia, to periods of a war, other military operation, or national emergency (id. § 1098bb(a)(1)), to certain categories of eligible individuals or institutions (id. § 1098ee(2)), and to a defined set of purposes (id.§ 1098bb(a)(2)(A)–(E))."

So I am not saying that it will pass constitutional scrutiny in Courts but on the face of the law it does appear Congress gave authority to the Executive to cancel debt given certain circumstances delineated above, and it appears the elements required in the law have been met.  If Courts agree with that then it will be constitutional no matter what you or I think.  On the face to me it appears constitutional but we will have to wait and see.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Didba

[TexasTiger 14,364]

I have mixed feelings about this one. The larger problem remains unsolved. But the hypocrisy of many Republicans is striking:

 

[AUDub 11,974]

3 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Just like Athletics.....it's an arms race. No longer about the education as much as it is about access to those federal loan driven dollars. 

This^ is correct. 

[AU9377 6,057]

On 8/24/2022 at 4:34 PM, wdefromtx said:

Doesn't seem like it is really going to fix the problem moving forward. I don't see anything that will help costs from going even higher. Don't get me wrong, I see the need for student loans but they are part of the reason costs high gone way up. 

I hope the short term benefit does not come at a cost.  

 

The real problem is that schools, all schools, have used the loan program to hike tuition thru the roof and pay for all sorts of things that state legislatures and other resources won't fund.  Alabama and Auburn have not sat on the sidelines.  Both have pushed out of state fees while purposefully recruiting more out of state students knowing the benefit will be the enormous tuition that they will pay.  That tuition is financed by the Federal govt thru the loan programs.

[AU9377 6,057]

6 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Well since I am his boss (you know...the American citizen and all) and I know he can't unilaterally forgive federally backed loans without the approval of congress.......I will side with this being shot down in a blaze of glory. But hey, whatever dog. 

Republicans won't fight this very much.  It is too dangerous politically.

[autigeremt 7,240]

34 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Republicans won't fight this very much.  It is too dangerous politically.

It’s a shame we have horrible political parties who have no spine and big pockets 

[arein0 1,106]

I dont fully understand why Republicans are getting so upset over this. How is it celebrated to give PPP loan forgiveness to businesses during COVID (which most laid off employees and pocketed the cash), but not okay to give individuals loan forgiveness for trying to better themselves by getting an education?

[GoAU 1,696]

4 hours ago, arein0 said:

I dont fully understand why Republicans are getting so upset over this. How is it celebrated to give PPP loan forgiveness to businesses during COVID (which most laid off employees and pocketed the cash), but not okay to give individuals loan forgiveness for trying to better themselves by getting an education?

$300,000,000,000 in debt during a period of inflation in an administration that has spent over 4 TRILLION dollars in 2 years is part of the reason many Republicans aren’t behind this.  
 

Another reason is that it is just a blast at attempt to buy votes prior to an mid term election by a president that has had approval ratings worse than a dumpster fire, using authority that may very well be unconstitutional is another reason.  
 

I don’t think many people really celebrated PPP - but when the government forced many of these businesses to shut down, you can see the point of trying to offset some of that burden.   No one forced these student to take out these loans.