Pretty good one on Harsin and Auburn.

[Didba 5,303]

21 minutes ago, cbo said:

I was actually thinking it's time for a change. But I won't now. 

Never a bad thing to think about Norm. Hilarious guy and more intellectual and introspective than you might expect. Look up his interview on WTF with Marc Maron, if you haven't already heard it. 

I have not, I'll look it up now.  He recorded an interview with Larry King that I think was in the last few years... Very intellectual, they spoke on death and I think Norm knew by then and its very compelling.

[cbo 8,108]

11 minutes ago, Didba said:

I have not, I'll look it up now.  He recorded an interview with Larry King that I think was in the last few years... Very intellectual, they spoke on death and I think Norm knew by then and its very compelling.

Then I will look that up. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

8 hours ago, AUwent said:

Please pick one. Was Bo Nix some horrible plague upon our program whom we're so glad is gone OR was he the difference between 6 wins and 9 wins (and possibly SEC west champs)?

I've been very consistent with this. He was not a good QB his first two years. He showed improvement. But wasn't really good the first half of the season. GA State, UGA, Penn St.  

Due to Harsin. He finally showed improvement. His final 4 games, even with the bad A&M game, he looked like a real QB for a long stretch. I believe he was near 70% comp during that stretch.

He was on another level vs TJ last year. And we beat  MSU, USC, and Houston if he plays.

That said, he's still a bad down the field passer comparatively. He doesn't have the strongest arm and still makes bad decisions. 

 

There is context to everything 

[W.E.D 11,070]

8 hours ago, au302 said:

I actually agree with this there are a lot of folks who claim Bo sucked, etc, but we'd have won 9 had he'd stayed healthy. I don't see it. I thought he was a below average QB. I think we maybe win 8 with him. Maybe. That said, I don't think we'd have lost 5 in a row. Certainly still possible, but unlikely. 

He was a below average QB.  Comparatively he was much better than TJ and we got much worse without him on yhe field. 

We beat State, USC, Houston if Bo is healthy. That's 9-4. I'm nit giving us the Bama game.

Luckily we replace him with a similar talent at QB who does different things better. Hopefully Harsin can develop ZC like he did Bo

[au302 2,669]

9 hours ago, Didba said:

Oh 100%, we'd have done so much better with Bo last year.  Bo was Bo. An average QB with as ton of talent but very inconsistent.

What would have been cool would be if Harsin had come here when Bo was a freshman and to see how good he could have been with a coach who hasn't run the wingT his whole career. Those of you who know the wingT offense. The day I realized that Gus's offense was just the wingT modified to work at a fast pace and with just 5% more complexity I wanted him gone. THE WING T MAN.

Don't know a thing about the WingT besides my uncle telling me a few times that his HS ran it back in the early 80's. That's terrifying if Gus used an offense like that in today's SEC, lol. No wonder

[Rednilla 5,404]

12 hours ago, AU-24 said:

They got soft when we beat the turds, A&M, and the Pac 10 champs year before Covid? But they were real tough last year losing 5 in a row, a losing season, bowl lose to mighty Houston in the Birmingham bowl. Real tough! Just think Harsin had a month, after embarrassing himself as a coach, to prepare a much superior team to play Houston, in Birmingham, our home state and he embarrasses himself one more time.

I know it must be hard on you to hold onto hope that Harsin can somehow pull-off a 7-5 season, so you can pretend it is successful. While wishing and praying for this, please don’t let that complicate the obvious. The obvious is: Harsin was a bad hire!

Yes, I love Auburn enough to truly believe we can do better. Like Bruce and Butch for example! You simply hate Gus, more than you love Auburn, so you don’t care how bad Harsin is, as long as he is not Gus, you are happy.

Nice strawman, but no, I'm not holding onto hope that we'll go 7-5 this year. The only baseline for a good season that *I* have given is 8-4, and only that low because this is the second year of the rebuild.

I find it hysterical that you think I hate Gus more than I love Auburn. I stuck up for Gus for far longer than he deserved. It wasn't until his last season that I saw how far we'd fallen. After that, there needed to be a change. Most Auburn people, even your fellow sniffer of Gus's jock strap, Mikey, have admitted that it was time for him to go. With that being the case, I'm willing to give the new guy a little time to set up shop. Admittedly, he has to get moving. We win 8-9 games this year and a few of the higher ranked recruits are likely to come our way, pushing us up the rankings. This is the make it or break it year for Harsin, I've said that already... but I'm willing to let this year play out before I start slamming him.

See, you're just still butthurt about Gus, because you believed he was the right coach for us, despite his high point coming in year one. Anything short of immediate greatness isn't good enough for you, because you don't understand the concept of having to build something from the ground up.

For the record, I was there for the 2019 Iron Bowl. The crowd (and Kerryon Johnson) won that game, not Gus Malzahn. And Pac-10 Champs? Yeah, umm, what's going out west right now? Maybe that's not so prestigious as you make it out to be. 

Pretty obvious you've made up your mind that Gus should have stayed and the new guy has to go, so I'll just stop now, but let me remind you which one of us is cheering against the current Auburn head coach before you decide who loves and hates Auburn, hmm?

[gr82be 14,567]

21 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

For the record, I was there for the 2019 Iron Bowl. The crowd (and Kerryon Johnson) won that game, not Gus Malzahn.

Unless he gave an inspirational speech, Kerryon left after '17. Maybe your thinking of Worm taking that guys lid off. 

[Rednilla 5,404]

58 minutes ago, gr82be said:

Unless he gave an inspirational speech, Kerryon left after '17. Maybe your thinking of Worm taking that guys lid off. 

Gosh, you know, I had 2017 stuck in my head, you're right. I'm not entirely sure I was at the 2019 Iron Bowl. I've been to so many now that they run together.

[Mikey 16,781]

1 hour ago, Rednilla said:

For the record, I was there for the 2019 Iron Bowl. The crowd (and Kerryon Johnson) won that game, not Gus Malzahn.

I suppose in your world TJ and not Harsin lost to South Carolina, MSU and Houston?

About that '19 Iron Bowl, some combination of Gus and Bo did win that game. If not for the clever concept and excellent execution in tricking bammer into having 12 players on the field in the game's closing minuets, we probably lose.

[GunsmithAU 383]

12 hours ago, Didba said:

Oh 100%, we'd have done so much better with Bo last year.  Bo was Bo. An average QB with as ton of talent but very inconsistent.

What would have been cool would be if Harsin had come here when Bo was a freshman and to see how good he could have been with a coach who hasn't run the wingT his whole career. Those of you who know the wingT offense. The day I realized that Gus's offense was just the wingT modified to work at a fast pace and with just 5% more complexity I wanted him gone. THE WING T MAN.

Gus never hid that it was a modern shotgun wing T. 

Hell there are major big time highschool programs putting out 4-5 star recruits and winning upper division state titles with the shotgun wingT.

I don't really have a problem with the wing T basis as it has stood the test of time with many of it's concepts still being utilized even in the NFL. The problem with Gus was the refusal to take that basis and involve the dynamic passing concepts which now dominate college and the pros, coach OL on modern technique/incorperated protection which teach the communication needed for modern Ds.

 

[JerryAU 1,714]

57 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I suppose in your world TJ and not Harsin lost to South Carolina, MSU and Houston?

About that '19 Iron Bowl, some combination of Gus and Bo did win that game. If not for the clever concept and excellent execution in tricking bammer into having 12 players on the field in the game's closing minuets, we probably lose.

No one should lose sight of the few bright spots in CGM's tenure and we can't erase his deficiencies either.

Here's to better days ahead with Auburn getting back among the top of the heap in this conference. 

[JerryAU 1,714]

3 minutes ago, GunsmithAU said:

Gus never hid that it was a modern shotgun wing T. 

Hell there are major big time highschool programs putting out 4-5 star recruits and winning upper division state titles with the shotgun wingT.

I don't really have a problem with the wing T basis as it has stood the test of time with many of it's concepts still being utilized even in the NFL. The problem with Gus was the refusal to take that basis and involve the dynamic passing concepts which now dominate college and the pros, coach OL on modern technique/incorperated protection which teach the communication needed for modern Ds.

 

The man was stubborn to a fault, even after running through a string of OC's who could've easily helped him evolve, make a few changes and update his offensive philosophy. 

 

[GunsmithAU 383]

Just now, JerryAU said:

The man was stubborn to a fault, even after running through a string of OC's who could've easily helped him evolve, make a few changes and update his offensive philosophy. 

 

Indeed. 

I know a couple of HS guys who are currently running this weird air raid wingt from under center complete putting up video game numbers in decent competition. 

[eaglenest 332]

4 hours ago, W.E.D said:

He was a below average QB.  Comparatively he was much better than TJ and we got much worse without him on yhe field. 

We beat State, USC, Houston if Bo is healthy. That's 9-4. I'm nit giving us the Bama game.

Luckily we replace him with a similar talent at QB who does different things better. Hopefully Harsin can develop ZC like he did Bo

He will develop both Ashford and Cal how about that.

[Hank2020 3,232]

5 hours ago, W.E.D said:

He was a below average QB.  Comparatively he was much better than TJ and we got much worse without him on yhe field. 

We beat State, USC, Houston if Bo is healthy. That's 9-4. I'm nit giving us the Bama game.

Luckily we replace him with a similar talent at QB who does different things better. Hopefully Harsin can develop ZC like he did Bo

Big question is will it be Harsin. He seems to want to be consistent on letting  the chosen people do their jobs. Will it be Keasau or Harsin?

Edited July 14, 2022 by Hank2020

[GunsmithAU 383]

1 hour ago, eaglenest said:

He will develop both Ashford and Cal how about that.

We don't know if it was bobo or Harsin or some weird mix of the 2 which was responsible for Nix's progress. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by GunsmithAU

[AuburnNTexas 7,236]

We seem to have two groups competing here with a couple of exceptions. The love Gus bunch hate Harsin and the hate Gus kinda like Harsin but not sure. 

Gus was the right coach when he arrived as an assistant his modifications and speeding up of the WingT gave us an advantage even against teams like bama that still had more talent.  Making him head coach at the time was the right decision as we needed his offense and we almost won it all a second time. Gus was a standup coach that ran a clean program from time he arrived to time he left and he loved Auburn. Gus inherited a weak defense when he became head coach and he deserves credit for bringing in great DC's that turned that around. That is the good side of Gus.  The problem was the rules changed not allowing Gus to run at the pace he liked and teams adjusted to his offense the more they saw of it. His basic Offense as some have said still does well in places but the teams running it have evolved it to mix in more complex passing trees which Gus never did. Gus is still a good coach and his system will win games but without evolving it will always be a middle of the pack type program. To get to the next level we needed to replace Gus. 

Harsin inherited some talent but with gaps and prior to Harsin arriving recruiting was not going well under Gus. It was very anemic he brought in some players especially in the Portal in 1st class but he did not excite the world. Last years class would have been even worse if LSU had not imploded plus we had some nice players in Portal while also losing more players in Portal. He only brought in one O-Linemen which hurt on top of Gus' anemic recruiting of O-line. Then end of season was disastrous after a decent start to the season.  During the 2022 recruiting cycle we saw a lot of attention to 2023 players so expectation was for a really good class in 2023. During 2022 we also saw where Harsin did a piss poor job of reaching out to HS coaches and building relationships. We had the Portal Player exodus some may have been players who didn't fit Harsin's philosophy and some may have been on how Harsin treated players. Then we had an Inquisition that started out with a lot of unsubstantiated rumors in Social Media but that has hurt both Auburn and Harsin especially with it making it easy for people to say he is a lame duck coach so why go to Auburn.

To save this class and his job Harsin has to have a really good year on the field with 8 wins being the minimum and 9 or 10 wins really helping. To do that he needs a QB to step up, the O-line to run Block like they haven't in many years with some long drives to keep what I think is a very good but not super deep Defense fresh.  If he can do that the 2023 class will improve but will not be great as we are to far behind this year but should enable us to work the Portal to fill holes as players will believe in Harsin and staff and really build a great 2024 class.  A good season and 2023 class could improve to a top 15 class but not much better because we have already lost out on most of the stellar Alabama in state class.

 

[W.E.D 11,070]

3 hours ago, Mikey said:

About that '19 Iron Bowl, some combination of Gus and Bo did win that game

Lmao at leaving out the defense and yhr fact we played vs a QB whom never started a game before.

[GunsmithAU 383]

5 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

We seem to have two groups competing here with a couple of exceptions. The love Gus bunch hate Harsin and the hate Gus kinda like Harsin but not sure. 

I don't think anyone here loves Gus. It's pretty universal that all think he should have been fired. 

[JerryAU 1,714]

45 minutes ago, GunsmithAU said:

I don't think anyone here loves Gus. It's pretty universal that all think he should have been fired. 

Yep - there's no love lost for CGM and most folks that come across as Gus lovers really had hoped that after spending +$30MM for a coaching change we'd have seen exponentially better results both on and off the field after 18 months.

IMO, I'm ready to give CBH & his crew another 18 months to work and then evaluate him after 3 full yrs on the job.  

Edited July 14, 2022 by JerryAU

[GunsmithAU 383]

6 minutes ago, JerryAU said:

Yep - there's no love lost for CGM and most folks that come across as Gus lovers really had hoped that after spending +$30MM for a coaching change we'd have seen exponentially better results both on and off the field after 18 months.

IMO, I'm ready to give CBH & his crew another 18 months to work and then evaluate him after 3 full yrs on the job.  

In my eyes he gets this season. If record, recruiting, off field issues, etc are still not where they need to be come November, I will be 100% in the fire him now crowd. 

He needs some tangible good to happen. 

[Hank2020 3,232]

1 hour ago, GunsmithAU said:

I don't think anyone here loves Gus. It's pretty universal that all think he should have been fired. 

It seems to me that if posters bring up how good Gus was at certain aspect’s while putting Harsin down, they are given a “love Gus” characterization. May not be absolutely correct but practically speaking, it means same thing.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Hank2020

[Randman5000 4,238]

The article proves the point on why we needed someone like Hars and get rid of Gus. Gus was never someone to evolve, admit it and thought 6 wins with potentially 8 was a solid year while keeping the same mindset and offense.  He never evolved or added to the staff on my or off the field to get better. At least something changed. I hope Hars and the players show the fans and naysayers as well this fall. 

[80Tiger 904]

3 hours ago, GunsmithAU said:

Gus never hid that it was a modern shotgun wing T. 

Hell there are major big time highschool programs putting out 4-5 star recruits and winning upper division state titles with the shotgun wingT.

I don't really have a problem with the wing T basis as it has stood the test of time with many of it's concepts still being utilized even in the NFL. The problem with Gus was the refusal to take that basis and involve the dynamic passing concepts which now dominate college and the pros, coach OL on modern technique/incorperated protection which teach the communication needed for modern Ds.

 

Spot on. The problem was not the Wing T, but the adaptation by Gus. You are correct. The Wing T has stood the test of time. It has and will be the basis for a lot of successful football.

[abw0004 10,139]

4 hours ago, Rednilla said:

Gosh, you know, I had 2017 stuck in my head, you're right. I'm not entirely sure I was at the 2019 Iron Bowl. I've been to so many now that they run together.

To his credit, I would actually give both of those Iron Bowl wins to Gus.  In 2017 Malzahn really had the defense guessing in both the UGA game and the Iron Bowl.  Stidham was also on point with his throws.  Those were some of the most fun games to attend too.  2017 Iron Bowl Highlights below:

2019 Iron Bowl Gus laid off the gas in he second half but that trick play to seal the game was genius and made Saban complain all off season that he was duped.  11:36 mark below:

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by abw0004