Harsin learning and improving

[Sizzle 3,932]

42 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

What he was doing at Boise was watching his way work in a big way. Two things can be true here. He had a recipe that produced great results and few complaints at BSU. That recipe produced a different outcome at AU and in the SEC. Now he’s adapting. The next few months we’re going to find out if he can blend what has worked for him and what he has learned into the AU culture and SEC. 

was it in a big way? I remember Boise fans were happy to see him leave. But maybe their expectations were super high

[W.E.D 11,070]

2 hours ago, Sizzle said:

That’s good he’s trying to improve that’s all you can ask for. But what the hell was he doing at Boise State all those years? 

Boise is a unicorn.  I think the effort needed there vs Auburn is drastically different.  They are essentially the golden child of G5.  They got all the top leftovers and some a 4* kid here and there.  You don't have that luxury in the SEC and once kids are here, like it or not, but they have options now to go elsewhere.  That is something new vs his time at Boise.  Kids have options, and in the SEC they have a lot more.

[W.E.D 11,070]

48 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

What he was doing at Boise was watching his way work in a big way. Two things can be true here. He had a recipe that produced great results and few complaints at BSU. That recipe produced a different outcome at AU and in the SEC. Now he’s adapting. The next few months we’re going to find out if he can blend what has worked for him and what he has learned into the AU culture and SEC. 

He also had "his way" at Boise and the dynamic from all of CFB shifted and he originally seemed to stand still.  NIL and The Transfer Portal changed things.  I like that he's seemingly changing.  Brining in some TikTok stars for spring practice seemed like a good thing.  Having fun, etc.

Hopefully we keep adapting and really go in heavy on NIL.

[abw0004 10,140]

I don't know, I feel like it is kind of odd for someone who is 45 years old and has been coaching for 22 years to just now learn he needs to actually care about people.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Apologies for going broken record here, but I don't think it was less effort at all. I think it was different effort. 

If you averaged the distance of every Boise player's home town from Boise, it's probably over 500 miles. There's no way that's easy. There's no way it's easy to get kids from, say, Yorba Linda to choose Boise over, say, San Diego State. 

It's just that the same sales pitch doesn't work in the southeast trying to get kids to Auburn. And the same personal qualities in a head coach might not appeal to a 5* from Atlanta the same way they appeal to a 3* from Wyoming. 

I don't think it's ever been about effort or intelligence. 

[maryland tiger 616]

7 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I don't know, I feel like it is kind of odd for someone who is 45 years old and has been coaching for 22 years to just now learn he needs to actually care about people.

Lil nicky didn't care about this player yet he is considered the greatest coach of all time. Coaches can't personally sit down with every player when he is busy and there are over 100 players on the team.(85 scholarship) Stop it! 

Nick Saban Alleged Seizure Incident with Dolphins Paints Ugly Picture | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

 

 

[aubiefifty 17,487]

1 hour ago, woodford said:

Winning will fix a lot of things. 
 

The Penn State game is going to be so massive. 

it is gonna be a massive heart attack you mean........lol

[aubiefifty 17,487]

13 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I don't know, I feel like it is kind of odd for someone who is 45 years old and has been coaching for 22 years to just now learn he needs to actually care about people.

i want harsin to succeed but so many fans have said a coach should never do on the job training at auburn. is he getting a pass when other have not or does it just appear that way. and i always thought people went into coaching because they want to mentor these young men. am i wrong? i just thought i would stir the pot a little. i think it is just a misunderstanding and different cultures and all that. but it sure does seem odd. i am willing to bet he loved most if not all of his players at boise so it is strange that would appear not to be the case. i am going to put that out there with either bad or even confused messaging.

[abw0004 10,140]

8 minutes ago, maryland tiger said:

Lil nicky didn't care about this player yet he is considered the greatest coach of all time. Coaches can't personally sit down with every player when he is busy and there are over 100 players on the team.(85 scholarship) Stop it! 

Nick Saban Alleged Seizure Incident with Dolphins Paints Ugly Picture | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

I am not sure why Saban needs to be brought into this but I can also show you instances of where he does care, even as recently as this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5q1BV9jbI.  That should not matter though.  You can and should personally sit down with every player that committed to playing for your program.  It is possible and happens all of the time.  It is the same in business.  I know plenty of business owners of companies well over 100 employees that know every single person and met their spouses.

 

[Didba 5,303]

28 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I don't know, I feel like it is kind of odd for someone who is 45 years old and has been coaching for 22 years to just now learn he needs to actually care about people.

I think that is massive over-simplification of the issue.  

He didn't just now learn he needs to care about people.  That is a ridiculous statement.  What really happened according to recent player interviews is that Harsin was focused solely on football, and had never had players from the South with various different upbringings from different socioeconomic backgrounds.  

So the players that needed that little extra TLC from Coach because they are away from their families, going through things back home, dealing with grandparents that can be sickly, weren't getting what they needed from Coach as a stand in parental figure bc Coach really may not have had to deal with that at Boise.  Further, the player said that some players were very intimidated to go in his office and talk to him 1 on 1 bc his personality and approach was so different from Gus's.

The player then opined to say that none of this bothered him because he picked up what Coach was putting down from Day 1 but he straight up said yeah other players though, some of them need that extra TLC from Coach.  And it appears from Coach's and players' comments that he is making strides to connect with those players and be more open.

The key here is this shows us that Harsin appears to have a fairly high level of self-awareness and emotional intelligence, when its pointed out to him that something needs to change he goes okay, didn't realize that, with this new information lets change it for the better.  One of my biggest problems with the last regime was the lack of self-awareness and ability to change/adapt.

[Didba 5,303]

24 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i want harsin to succeed but so many fans have said a coach should never do on the job training at auburn. is he getting a pass when other have not or does it just appear that way. and i always thought people went into coaching because they want to mentor these young men. am i wrong? i just thought i would stir the pot a little. i think it is just a misunderstanding and different cultures and all that. but it sure does seem odd. i am willing to bet he loved most if not all of his players at boise so it is strange that would appear not to be the case. i am going to put that out there with either bad or even confused messaging.

Go read my post at the bottom of this page and I think it will give you a deeper perspective then ABW's massive oversimplification.

[maryland tiger 616]

46 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I am not sure why Saban needs to be brought into this but I can also show you instances of where he does care, even as recently as this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5q1BV9jbI.  That should not matter though.  You can and should personally sit down with every player that committed to playing for your program.  It is possible and happens all of the time.  It is the same in business.  I know plenty of business owners of companies well over 100 employees that know every single person and met their spouses.

 

Lil Nicky was brought up because, the point is, these coaches are not going to be touchy feely with their players. They only want them to produce on the field. When they don't need them anymore, they are done with the players. Most coachers are not like Gus who hugs and kisses his players and tucks them in at night. Harsin wants to win like most coaches and he isn't going to spend alot of time getting close to his players. There was a player recently injured at the combine and no one went to help him. That is the nature of football unfortunately! 

[abw0004 10,140]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

I think that is massive over-simplification of the issue.  

He didn't just now learn he needs to care about people.  That is a ridiculous statement.  What really happened according to recent player interviews is that Harsin was focused solely on football, and had never had players from the South with various different upbringings from different socioeconomic backgrounds.  

So the players that needed that little extra TLC from Coach because they are away from their families, going through things back home, dealing with grandparents that can be sickly, weren't getting what they needed from Coach as a stand in parental figure bc Coach really may not have had to deal with that at Boise.  Further, the player said that some players were very intimidated to go in his office and talk to him 1 on 1 bc his personality and approach was so different from Gus's.

The player then opined to say that none of this bothered him because he picked up what Coach was putting down from Day 1 but he straight up said yeah other players though, some of them need that extra TLC from Coach.  And it appears from Coach's and players' comments that he is making strides to connect with those players and be more open.

The key here is this shows us that Harsin appears to have a fairly high level of self-awareness and emotional intelligence, when its pointed out to him that something needs to change he goes okay, didn't realize that, with this new information lets change it for the better.  One of my biggest problems with the last regime was the lack of self-awareness and ability to change/adapt.

Respectfully, I don't think that was a massive oversimplification.  We can't make the assumption that just because the players are from the South they have different upbringings from ones near Boise and that the socioeconomic backgrounds are different.  A good point to that is Idaho is a agriculture state, which is what good parts of Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi are.  A lot of the same backgrounds, just in different areas of the country.

I am also not sure this shows us one bit that Harsin has any self-awareness at all.  He was incredibly stubborn about not wanting to change, even calling people who were asking him to make changes names, like the Potato Gang.  It took a major event like almost getting fired to wake him up.  That really isn't self-awareness.  Self-awareness is the ability to diagnose it on your own and make the changes, not to have your hand held and told what is needed to change.  Heck, if Harsin was self-aware, he would have realized he did not understand the SEC and how to recruit it and surrounded himself with guys that did.  Instead, he just brought down former Boise coaches that understand what Harsin is looking for.

He has made changes though, to his credit.  So I am excited to see what is to come for this year and hope to see ourselves on a nice trajectory.

Edited March 25, 2022 by abw0004

[Potatooooooes!! 1,389]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:13 PM, Didba said:

Bryan Harsin is trying to get better.

But that’s always been the case for him. The study of self-improvement is one of his favorite topics to talk about. He said as much this spring, after the turmoil of the offseason settled and the Auburn football team opened spring camp and swapped social media chaos for the familiar rhythm of practice and drills.

And so it’s no secret in the athletics complex now that Harsin is trying to get better this spring at relating to his team at Auburn, and is trying to build a better connection with his players from all backgrounds.

“I think that’s just for the better of the program,” Auburn corner Nehemiah Pritchett said Wednesday, as the Tigers got set for another day of practice. “Players want to play for coaches who care about them. Coach Harsin, he’s shown that he cares lately.”

 

Players said Wednesday that when Harsin got back in early February, he opened up in a team meeting about being a better communicator with the young people on his team while telling them his office door is always open.

Harsin, for his part, has also pointed to how COVID-19 numbers were still high when he first got to Auburn. The recent team activities Auburn’s enjoyed outside the complex this offseason — like going on a paintball trip — are things the team would’ve done when he first got to Auburn if it weren’t for the pandemic, he said.

Either way, departures from the program led into a wellness check from the university president’s office this past January, and players say Harsin is working harder this spring to ensure everyone in the program feels comfortable and heard.

 

“I could tell when I first came, it was just, like, football,” defensive lineman Marcus Harris said of the focus under Harsin. “I’m used to that football mindset, but you never know how other people might take that. They probably took it the wrong way, like he didn’t care about them. But in actuality, he was just trying to win and getting the program up, because he’s a new coach.

 

“He’s got to put his foot down and let everybody know that he’s not a run-over coach. He’s a serious coach. But I saw it when he first came here.”

 

It was in late January and early February that the university president’s office opened its investigation. One former player Lee Hunter said on social media that players were treated “like dogs” under Harsin and another, Smoke Monday, said that Harsin can’t relate to players “from the hood.”

 

Complicating the wellness check was a previously scheduled vacation for Harsin. Ultimately, school president Jay Gogue announced Auburn found nothing in its investigation that should change Harsin’s status as head football coach — while bemoaning the rumors that ran rampant on social media, many of them completely unrelated to what was going on.

When Harsin got back from vacation in early February, and Gogue affirmed that he’d still be Auburn’s football coach, Kilian Zierer said Harsin opened up in a team meeting.

“The first meeting we had, he told everybody his room’s always open,” Zierer said. “If you have any issues, just walk right in. He acknowledged that he didn’t do the best job, I guess, last year, and he said he wants to improve it. And the first meeting we had, he pretty much said, whenever there’s an issue [to bring it to him] — and he’s going to try to be better with everybody, if that makes sense.

 

“He wants to relate more to everybody. I think he’s done a much better job of that already.”

Ultimately, like Pritchett, Harris thinks the program is better for what happened.

And the Tigers and the head coach are moving forward together.

“Not before the situation that happened in February, but I guess people were scared to talk to him one-on-one. But he’s not a scary person to talk to,” Harris said. “He told us, he didn’t know that’s what he was missing, what we needed. As a team, as a unit, as a collective group, we were like, ‘Yeah, that’s what some people need,’ because you’ve got people coming in from all different parts of the country and you never know what they’re going through at home, because they can’t see their family.

“You’ve got to ask them how their family’s doing and how their mom’s doing and family and grandparents and stuff like that. So I feel like he’s doing better with that part. I feel like that’s going to help us even better this season.”

I promise I’m going to leave you alone, @Mikey, but this is what I’m talking about when it comes to positives. Even if Harsin turns out to be a horrible football coach, he’s learning and changing. Reading that article should make make anyone happy. And if the team is responding so well to it, it may help avoid collapses this season. The players all raved that he was an excellent football coach; they just weren’t sure if he was a caring person. If he can truly be both, then I really don’t see why he can’t actually be our next “Saban.” 

[McLoofus 35,182]

53 minutes ago, Didba said:

One of my biggest problems with the last regime was the lack of self-awareness and ability to change/adapt.

It's the #1 reason Gus failed IMO, and it's the #1 quality I wanted to see in whoever came next. 

Jury still out on Harsin but I remain optimistic. 

[Randman5000 4,239]

2 hours ago, Sizzle said:

was it in a big way? I remember Boise fans were happy to see him leave. But maybe their expectations were super high

I think he was rocking the boat. Before he left he was pushing for Boise State to try and join the the Pac-12 or another conference. He said if you really believe in championship football you have to go to where you can compete for them. He wanted them to try to go to a bigger stage. A few months later he was gone. 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Randman5000

[Gowebb11 9,543]

2 hours ago, Sizzle said:

was it in a big way? I remember Boise fans were happy to see him leave. But maybe their expectations were super high

10-12 wins a year over several years, conference championships, and a great bowl record is how I define in a big way. I have no idea about Boise fans, but a lot of times it is the vocal minority on the message boards that seems to have the loudest voice. I do know the expectations of that program are super high. They boast one of the nations highest winning percentages  the past couple of decades. 

[DAG 34,115]

3 hours ago, W.E.D said:

Boise is a unicorn.  I think the effort needed there vs Auburn is drastically different.  They are essentially the golden child of G5.  They got all the top leftovers and some a 4* kid here and there.  You don't have that luxury in the SEC and once kids are here, like it or not, but they have options now to go elsewhere.  That is something new vs his time at Boise.  Kids have options, and in the SEC they have a lot more.

Pretty much this and the NIL. CBH was given a gold mine after coach Peterson left. I mean it is Boise. I highly doubt he had to play x-box to convince the kids that they were centering on to come there. Much different landscape in the SEC, where relationships matter just as much as your coaching prowess. 

[Gowebb11 9,543]

Scrolling through this thread, I am perplexed by the notion some have that Harsin is just now learning to care for players. There’s a lot of ways for a coach to care for his players. Creating an inclusive and welcoming family atmosphere is one. Getting to know their parents is another. But there are other ways. Pushing a player from good to great and making him a multi millionaire is one(life changing for the player and his family). Working a player “like a dog” so he learns about the work ethic and discipline to become a champion on and off the field is another. I think Harsin brought his ways of caring into a culture that was very used to another way. A lot of players left. A lot chose to stay. Seems to me the players and the coach are still learning each other. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about them. 

[Didba 5,303]

1 hour ago, abw0004 said:

Respectfully, I don't think that was a massive oversimplification.  We can't make the assumption that just because the players are from the South they have different upbringings from ones near Boise and that the socioeconomic backgrounds are different.  A good point to that is Idaho is a agriculture state, which is what good parts of Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi are.  A lot of the same backgrounds, just in different areas of the country.

I am also not sure this shows us one bit that Harsin has any self-awareness at all.  He was incredibly stubborn about not wanting to change, even calling people who were asking him to make changes names, like the Potato Gang.  It took a major event like almost getting fired to wake him up.  That really isn't self-awareness.  Self-awareness is the ability to diagnose it on your own and make the changes, not to have your hand held and told what is needed to change.  Heck, if Harsin was self-aware, he would have realized he did not understand the SEC and how to recruit it and surrounded himself with guys that did.  Instead, he just brought down former Boise coaches that understand what Harsin is looking for.

He has made changes though, to his credit.  So I am excited to see what is to come for this year and hope to see ourselves on a nice trajectory.

I think you misunderstand.  https://broncosports.com/sports/football/roster/2017 

I wasn't necessarily speaking to the actual boise region but to the players he had there.

Take a look at that roster, very few kids that would have the same socioeconomic underpinnings that come with living poor, rural, in the south, and only being a generation removed from having relatives that lived during full blown Jim Crow. (not trying to get political but its important to the discussion).

There are a ton of California kids on that roster.  I only looked at one year but it's probably safe to say that most of the kids he had at Boise did not have the same socioeconomic background as some of the kids at Auburn.

As to the self awareness stuff... I was more speaking to him being told by players since he came back from vacation "hey Coach we are with you but some of us need you to be more open and parental with us, we need a soft side of you coach when we have stuff going on back home."  

I think he may not have been comfortable in that role initially.  Everyone is different, I would struggle myself to do that.  I think the catalyst wasn't almost getting fired that made him start making changes. It was conversations with leaders on the team speaking for their younger brothers on the team.

All that there stuff we don't have any information to go on, hence why I so heavily referred to player interviews from this spring bc it is first hand testimony straight from the source.  Also, from what Harsin, players, recruits and reporters have said, the Covid year may have really limited what Harsin could do to interact in ways with the players he was comfortable in.  Harsin mentioned himself stuff they are starting to do now to build team chemistry they couldn't do last year.

[Didba 5,303]

31 minutes ago, DAG said:

Pretty much this and the NIL. CBH was given a gold mine after coach Peterson left. I mean it is Boise. I highly doubt he had to play x-box to convince the kids that they were centering on to come there. Much different landscape in the SEC, where relationships matter just as much as your coaching prowess. 

Ton of kids from California on the Boise rosters too.  Completely different from the guys you get at Auburn.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Didba

[Didba 5,303]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

It's the #1 reason Gus failed IMO, and it's the #1 quality I wanted to see in whoever came next. 

Jury still out on Harsin but I remain optimistic. 

He appears to be more self-aware when it comes to offensive scheme that is for sure.

[DAG 34,115]

Just now, Didba said:

Ton of kids from California not the Boise rosters too.  Completely different from the guys you get at Auburn.

I also loved your post about caring about people. Put that in much better words than mine friend . That is why you are the lawyer lol.

[Didba 5,303]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

I also loved your post about caring about people. Put that in much better words than mine friend . That is why you are the lawyer lol.

I appreciate your kind words.  

hah, my job every day is to read and write so it just comes with the territory. Also, the jury selection process really teaches attorneys to listen to what a person says and read between the lines to hear what they are really thinking and feeling.

 

Also, I guess I need to clarify, I am 4 months away from taking the Bar exam and getting my license so technically not an attorney yet, but I do work at a civil litigation firm basically doing first year associate attorney work.

[bigbird 60,624]

11 minutes ago, Didba said:

my job every day is to read and write so it just comes with the territory. Also, the jury selection process really teaches attorneys to listen to what a person says and read between the lines to hear what they are really thinking and feeling.

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