New Reality of the Situation

[ToomersRevenge 284]

Not everything has to be The Junction Boys or Navy SEALs level training for you to not be considered soft. WHile there’s a lot to be said for sticking through tough situations and developing grit, the current landscape means that coaches have to be more than just hardasses who can demand any and everything they want. 
 

We’re seeing the same evolution across the business landscape. Being  the top dog doesn’t mean you can just do what you want without repercussions anymore. You have to invest in your personnel to retain them these days, or you’re going to pay for that.

[AUght2win 6,919]

This is certainly not a unique take I have. An Auburn Twitter space last night with several beat writers was focusing on this. 

Apparently this year is a historically good year for Alabama based HS talent. Like, once every 20-30 years type where there are a ton of local top national prospects. The thinking is we cannot afford to whiff on them.

Their point was if we're going to fire him, do it now so a new staff has 9 months to a full year to go after them.

[JuscAUse! 1,524]

19 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

All the fan base stuff is overblown and untrue. Idk where people keep getting Auburn is a bad fan base. Auburn fans didn't bring about an iota of this. Fans didn't fire Corn, or lose 5 straight, or do IG lives bashing the program, or meddle behind the scenes, or start untrue rumors, or any of that.

All Auburn fans have done is support their team and ask for a winner. Showing up in huge numbers to the Birmingham Bowl in the midst of a losing streak shows what Auburn fans are all about. 

Every interview from a national, regional, or state sports reporter or whatever they call them now, referenced the "toxic attitudes" of the AU sites. We don't need the red elephant club to take down a coach at AU. We have us. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

3 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

But he also doesn't deserved to be fired "with cause" if there's absolutely no proof of wrongdoing. If Auburn wants to fire him, fire him. Don't trump up false allegations. Pay the man. Honor your word.

Where did we get to the point that the BOT is trumping up false allegations? 

These allegations weren't created by the BOT. They were reportedly made by players, former players, and former coaches.

The allegations are 100% real, correct? No one knows what they are yet, right?

[Gowebb11 9,536]

38 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

I think the thing that truly tells me the situation is Smoke Monday’s comment. Smoke said that Harsin had never even taken the time to meet his parents and didn’t know their name. I see no reason for Smoke to make that comment unless it was true. He was a good team player . He was allowed to play so there can’t be a reason to speak I’ll against Harsin. I think that might just some up things like maybe Harsin thinks he is better than other folks. You can bet good coaches know everyone of the players parents and takes time to meet with them. I can remember AU coaches often talking about players parents. I haven’t heard one time where Harsin talked about player’s families or even about the players themselves. Listen to Bruce talk about his players on a personal level not just how they played ball. This is college not pro and coaches need to be better leaders of these young men instead of just winning games. While I might have had disagreements with Gus’s game management , one thing was certain that Gus spent time with his players away from the football field and Gus’s wife did also.just saying. 

A huge role of college is to prepare you for the adult world. Most of these kids in football or out will cycle through a wide array of leaders/bosses during their career. Some will be tough. Some will be soft. But it will be the their job to make the boss happy. Not the other way around. It didn’t mean Smoke is wrong or not entitled to his opinion. Just means that like all of us at his age, he has a lot to learn about what’s ahead in the adult world. I wish him the highest levels of success. By the way, my ROTC leaders at Auburn had no idea who my parents were and often dogged the crap out of me. But they developed me as a man and leader and their tough love was worth every ounce of pain that came with it. 

[AUght2win 6,919]

8 minutes ago, JuscAUse! said:

Every interview from a national, regional, or state sports reporter or whatever they call them now, referenced the "toxic attitudes" of the AU sites. We don't need the red elephant club to take down a coach at AU. We have us. 

Again, it's all BS. Websites are websites. Social media is social media. Guys like Phillip Marshall think it's an Auburn problem but it's a societal problem. 

If anything, Auburn is one of the few schools who have done positive things online. Look at the basketball meme mob. Do people actually think those are different folks than people who show up in JHS on Saturdays?

I've always gotten a kick out of people who say "Auburn basketball fans are great. But Auburn football fans are toxic!" LMAO on what planet are these people different? 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

Just now, AUght2win said:

But he also doesn't deserved to be fired "with cause" if there's absolutely no proof of wrongdoing. If Auburn wants to fire him, fire him. Don't trump up false allegations. Pay the man. Honor your word.

We don't know if the allegations of an affair are true or untrue.  We don't know if there's proof or not so you can't say what happened there with any certainty one way or the other. But that's not the biggest problem anyway.

I believe the players accusations, and I have good reasons for that. It's very unfair to those kids who spoke up to just assume they're not telling the truth, or that they are "crybabies". They're warning people because Harsin mishandled his duties as their coach. The same thing happened with Sunny Golloway. Players warned everyone about his abusiveness. By the time people listened it was almost too late. 

I don't blame the ones who defend Harsin either. They're trying to salvage their college career, and they have their own experiences with Harsin which could be totally different.

 

[AUght2win 6,919]

10 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Where did we get to the point that the BOT is trumping up false allegations? 

These allegations weren't created by the BOT. They were reportedly made by players, former players, and former coaches.

The allegations are 100% real, correct? No one knows what they are yet, right?

The terms "racism" and "abuse" are out there. In addition to the affair rumor. There's a push to frame this in a light so harsh that we don't have to pay Harsin. 

The allegations (except for maybe the affair) have come from the players, yes. But none of them have even alleged abuse. I think the PTB are trying to twist things to fire him with cause.

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 minute ago, AUght2win said:

Again, it's all BS. Websites are websites. Social media is social media. Guys like Phillip Marshall think it's an Auburn problem but it's a societal problem. 

If anything, Auburn is one of the few schools who have done positive things online. Look at the basketball meme mob. Do people actually think those are different folks than people who show up in JHS on Saturdays?

I've always gotten a kick out of people who say "Auburn basketball fans are great. But Auburn football fans are toxic!" LMAO on what planet are these people different? 

Idk what is is. We're an easy target or something. But it wild we get blasted by national media for things that happen everywhere 

"Auburn cheats"....everyone cheats

"Auburn fires coaches"....everyone fires coaches

"Auburn fans are negative on message boards and Twitter"...lmao

[JuscAUse! 1,524]

12 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Where did we get to the point that the BOT is trumping up false allegations? 

These allegations weren't created by the BOT. They were reportedly made by players, former players, and former coaches.

The allegations are 100% real, correct? No one knows what they are yet, right?

 

2 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Again, it's all BS. Websites are websites. Social media is social media. Guys like Phillip Marshall think it's an Auburn problem but it's a societal problem. 

If anything, Auburn is one of the few schools who have done positive things online. Look at the basketball meme mob. Do people actually think those are different folks than people who show up in JHS on Saturdays?

I've always gotten a kick out of people who say "Auburn basketball fans are great. But Auburn football fans are toxic!" LMAO on what planet are these people different? 

AU basketball is winning. Talk to me when we lose 2 years in a row. 

[AUght2win 6,919]

2 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

We don't know if the allegations of an affair are true or untrue.  We don't know if there's proof or not so you can't say what happened there with any certainty one way or the other. But that's not the biggest problem anyway.

I believe the players accusations, and I have good reasons for that. It's very unfair to those kids who spoke up to just assume they're not telling the truth, or that they are "crybabies". They're warning people because Harsin mishandled his duties as their coach. The same thing happened with Sunny Golloway. Players warned everyone about his abusiveness. By the time people listened it was almost too late. 

I don't blame the ones who defend Harsin either. They're trying to salvage their college career, and they have their own experiences with Harsin which could be totally different.

 

You understand how legally high the bar is to establish things like "abuse" or "racism", right? It will be almost impossible without silver bullet proof. And if that existed, he would already be gone. 

So, no, I'm pretty solidly in the camp of "he may he a bad coach but there is 0 offered evidence he abused anyone or is racist." 

They should investigate. But nah, I'm not seeing anything, even from those players excoriating Harsin, that constitutes him being fired without pay. 

[ScotsAU 1,344]

5 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

A huge role of college is to prepare you for the adult world. Most of these kids in football or out will cycle through a wide array of leaders/bosses during their career. Some will be tough. Some will be soft. But it will be the their job to make the boss happy. Not the other way around. It didn’t mean Smoke is wrong or not entitled to his opinion. Just means that like all of us at his age, he has a lot to learn about what’s ahead in the adult world. I wish him the highest levels of success. By the way, my ROTC leaders at Auburn had no idea who my parents were and often dogged the crap out of me. But they developed me as a man and leader and their tough love was worth every ounce of pain that came with it. 

There’s a difference between tough and a jerk though. I worked for a jerk that was a boss. I gave my all as much as I could, but eventually my performance suffered because nothing I’d do got me out of his wrath and he’d actively sabotage my efforts to try to do good things for the organization. So, I left at the first opportunity and went to work for a boss that, while tough, was a very good manager.
In the real world, abusive managers and jerks lose employees. And that’s exactly what appears to be happening here. 
 

[W.E.D 11,070]

3 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

The terms "racism" and "abuse" are out there. In addition to the affair rumor. There's a push to frame this in a light so harsh that we don't have to pay Harsin. 

The allegations (except for maybe the affair) have come from the players, yes. But none of them have even alleged abuse. I think the PTB are trying to twist things to fire him with cause.

Hear me out.

There are allegations, correct? We don't know the specifics, but they center around racism and/or abuse. Right?

I can see the BOT taking advantage of a situation, if true, but I don't see this as being driven by them or twisting things or the ones orchestrating it. It's not a witch hunt 

[AUght2win 6,919]

3 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Idk what is is. We're an easy target or something. But it wild we get blasted by national media for things that happen everywhere 

"Auburn cheats"....everyone cheats

"Auburn fires coaches"....everyone fires coaches

"Auburn fans are negative on message boards and Twitter"...lmao

I'm sick of it, too. The Updykes threw a BRICK through Curry's window. UT fans pelted Kiffin with stuff during a game this year. LSU fans turned on Orgeron faster than we did Chizik.

But Auburn fans are somehow worse for a small minority on Twitter?

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

1 minute ago, AUght2win said:

You understand how legally high the bar is to establish things like "abuse" or "racism", right? It will be almost impossible without silver bullet proof. And if that existed, he would already be gone. 

So, no, I'm pretty solidly in the camp of "he may he a bad coach but there is 0 offered evidence he abused anyone or is racist." 

They should investigate. But nah, I'm not seeing anything, even from those players excoriating Harsin, that constitutes him being fired without pay. 

They are investigating it.

 

[ThurstontheWelshCorgi 576]

Hey what's the deal with the NSD zero players signing? Is that at all normal for a program? Like, is there another team in a major conference that had that kind of day? Honestly asking.. Seems extremely weird.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

1 minute ago, W.E.D said:

Hear me out.

There are allegations, correct? We don't know the specifics, but they center around racism and/or abuse. Right?

I can see the BOT taking advantage of a situation, if true, but I don't see this as being driven by them or twisting things or the ones orchestrating it. It's not a witch hunt 

That's a great way to explain the situation.

[AUght2win 6,919]

6 minutes ago, JuscAUse! said:

 

AU basketball is winning. Talk to me when we lose 2 years in a row. 

Auburn basketball fans are Auburn football fans. They are loyal and like to win. Do things right and you'll have Pearlville. Do things wrong and people won't like it. 

If you believe we are somehow uniquely bad or toxic as fans, describe exactly how. 

[NWALA Tiger 3,536]

46 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

He’ll need a strong year this fall to begin to overcome it. He may also need more attrition first.

Texas how confident are u that he makes it to fall?

[W.E.D 11,070]

4 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

 

They should investigate. But nah, I'm not seeing anything, even from those players excoriating Harsin, that constitutes him being fired without pay. 

Seems ppl are conflating what players have said on social media and what the accusations actually are.

I don't think we know

[TexasTiger 13,377]

1 minute ago, NWALA Tiger said:

Texas how confident are u that he makes it to fall?

Seems more likely than yesterday morning, but who knows?

[W.E.D 11,070]

6 minutes ago, ThurstontheWelshCorgi said:

Hey what's the deal with the NSD zero players signing? Is that at all normal for a program? Like, is there another team in a major conference that had that kind of day? Honestly asking.. Seems extremely weird.

NSD is now 90% in December. So theoretically a school could sign everyone they wanted to in December and be done. 

Most schools fill up in December and have a handful of targets gor February. We had 4 targets and missed on all of them.

[aucom96 1,648]

I think a lot of the damage to Auburn football has been lingering for years, peaking with the idiocy of Steven Leath. 

We weren't in a place where we needed a drill sergeant at Auburn. We needed someone to come in and make Auburn football attractive, to players and students alike. We needed to make it fun. We went out and got the opposite. I think I've gotten some idea of Harsin's plan and the amount of time it would take for that to even possibly work would require patience few SEC programs short of Vanderbilt have. He is a bad fit and I think this offseason - minus the Jerry Springer drama - proves that out. We are getting behind in a recruiting area that's full of sharks. 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

29 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

But he also doesn't deserved to be fired "with cause" if there's absolutely no proof of wrongdoing. If Auburn wants to fire him, fire him. Don't trump up false allegations. Pay the man. Honor your word.

You can't say the allegations are false. There's enough there for Auburn players to leave in a significant number, and for recruiting to be in the dumpster. Clearly this is a bigger issue than just a couple of kids with hurt feelings. Due to Harsin's mismanagement of Auburn football there is now a big, embarrassing mess. That is reason enough to dump him even if he gets some money. 

 

[bigbird 60,624]

1 minute ago, Tigerbelle said:

You can't say the allegations are false. There's enough there for Auburn players to leave in a significant number, and for recruiting to be in the dumpster. Clearly this is a bigger issue than just a couple of kids with hurt feelings. Due to Harsin's mismanagement of Auburn football there is now a big, embarrassing mess. That is reason enough to dump him even if he gets some money. 

 

I guess you subscribe to the guilty until innocent approach. Interesting.