Hypothetical Starting 5

[Dual-Threat Rigby 9,091]

5 hours ago, mcgufcm said:

I love Devin's energy and all, but even this version of Allen is one of the best perimeter defenders in the country. It's not a coincidence that we left him on the floor against Mizzou despite his offensive struggles. He's hell on the defensive end. Plus, there's just more upside to his offensive game. Devin is a streak shooter and a dunker. Nothing else. Flanigan has had multiple double-figure scoring games in SEC play, and he provides the possibility of weakside playmaking.

I love what Devin brings to the team, but there's a reason he's taken a backseat to Allen the last two years.

If I'm tweaking that five for anyone, it's Zep. He's the best on-ball defender in the SEC, and he's good enough as a shooter (though a reluctant shooter) to play off ball without hurting our spacing.

Wonderful post 

[Rednilla 5,449]

PG - Wendell

SG - KD

SF - Jabari

PF - Jaylin

C - Walker

You didn't say there are no injuries, so I had to factor that in when considering putting Allen in for KD. If there are no injuries...I don't know. I LOVE the lineup with Jabari at the 3 and Jaylin at the 4, and Flan would provide some size at guard...but KD is a spark plug when you need it most, and I've already got so much size at the 3 and the 5 that I feel like, with Allen not having developed much, if any, through the course of the year, because he's still trying to get to 100%, that even if he's completely healthy, I don't know if his size makes up for KD's clutch shot making ability.

If AF is healthy all year, and has full development to this point in the season, I think I take him easily. KD is a tenacious defender, but Allen wrote the book on that before KD was even in orange and blue, so that is, at best for KD, a tossup...but with the size disparity, it still leans Allen's way.

But the season as is, I think I take KD.

[Rednilla 5,449]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:24 PM, mcgufcm said:

I love Devin's energy and all, but even this version of Allen is one of the best perimeter defenders in the country. It's not a coincidence that we left him on the floor against Mizzou despite his offensive struggles. He's hell on the defensive end. Plus, there's just more upside to his offensive game. Devin is a streak shooter and a dunker. Nothing else. Flanigan has had multiple double-figure scoring games in SEC play, and he provides the possibility of weakside playmaking.

I love what Devin brings to the team, but there's a reason he's taken a backseat to Allen the last two years.

If I'm tweaking that five for anyone, it's Zep. He's the best on-ball defender in the SEC, and he's good enough as a shooter (though a reluctant shooter) to play off ball without hurting our spacing.

So you're saying you'd put Zep at the 2, rather than KD, is that what I'm hearing? I could buy that...but I just can't see giving up KD's ability to make not close games close (in our direction, of course), and to make close games not close. (Sorry guys, I can't think of a better way to say it. Having this damned kidney stone flipping inside of me like it's a quarter is throwing me off kilter.)

[Grumps 3,706]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:52 PM, cole256 said:

Harper, Flan, chuma, Smith, Kessler. Nobody from the Pearl era is beating this line up

This year green kd flan Smith Kessler

Why Flan over Okoro?

[steeleagle 2,945]

54 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Why Flan over Okoro?

I agree. Okoro has to be in there for Flan.

Okoro is more athletic and plays more under control at that position than Flan does....

[Grumps 3,706]

5 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I agree. Okoro has to be in there for Flan.

Okoro is more athletic and plays more under control at that position than Flan does....

That's what I was thinking, but I am sure that cole has a good answer coming!

[cole256 17,085]

10 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I agree. Okoro has to be in there for Flan.

Okoro is more athletic and plays more under control at that position than Flan does....

You and I see Flan completely different. I also think we see what's required from "positions" as well. Also we don't agree on what you say about flan's game. I personally think you are wrong with the out of control and ball handling stuff. I think you just have stuff in your mind or you watched one or two bad games and came to overall conclusions that may not be so, or at least not as I see it in my opinion

[steeleagle 2,945]

Just now, cole256 said:

You and I see Flan completely different. I also think we see what's required from "positions" as well. Also we don't agree on what you say about flan's game. I personally think you are wrong with the out of control and ball handling stuff. I think you just have stuff in your mind or you watched one or two bad games and came to overall conclusions that may not be so, or at least not as I see it in my opinion

You assume wrong. I go to all the games, and I understand BB too. It's not that we are just wrong. I think its more of duing the game, what are you contributing. 

I also will give Flan some cushion bc he is still trying to find his confidence after such a long layoff. I've watched him play for over 2 years now.  He is still improving....But if you want my starting 5, Okoro is in front...

I think Okoro is a better thinker w the ball and what he what to do as he gets the ball .Flan something just gets the ball and makes a decision, good or bad. 

I like Flan...just Okoro in that spot with the game on the line...

[cole256 17,085]

1 hour ago, Grumps said:

Why Flan over Okoro?

So in that line up flan is my 2. And while I don't believe there's too much of a difference between the 2 and 3 position but the difference I would like in this particular line up is a bit more ball handling and shooting. 

So when I look at picking between the two I look at one having more versatility on defense and the other on offense. But imo with flan I still get pretty damn good defense so as far as wanting a bit more spacing and ball handling I'm going with flan. 

[cole256 17,085]

4 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

You assume wrong. I go to all the games, and I understand BB too. It's not that we are just wrong. I think its more of duing the game, what are you contributing. 

I also will give Flan some cushion bc he is still trying to find his confidence after such a long layoff. I've watched him play for over 2 years now.  He is still improving....But if you want my starting 5, Okoro is in front...

I think Okoro is a better thinker w the ball and what he what to do as he gets the ball .Flan something just gets the ball and makes a decision, good or bad. 

I like Flan...just Okoro in that spot with the game on the line...

Well like I said in the past I've seen you say things about flan that's just not true imo. I won't offer to why as I guess only you know. I just know when you would compare him to Powell it was surprising to me.

As far as his decision making when he played with coop as opposed when he played without him are much different results. When he played without coop he was playing with a bunch of guys scared trying to make stuff happen being the only guy who could create a shot for himself or others. 

When playing with a bunch of guys who he doesn't have to carry I wouldn't worry about his decision making at all.

I didn't pick okoro between flan I picked him between chuma and I'm taking chuma over him every time. But if not for chuma I'm certainly choosing him. I had to pick flan between dunnas, canty, and Brown. I actually almost went with dunnans but I've seen Flan carry guys so he gets the edge

[mcgufcm 4,109]

9 hours ago, Rednilla said:

So you're saying you'd put Zep at the 2, rather than KD, is that what I'm hearing? I could buy that...but I just can't see giving up KD's ability to make not close games close (in our direction, of course), and to make close games not close. (Sorry guys, I can't think of a better way to say it. Having this damned kidney stone flipping inside of me like it's a quarter is throwing me off kilter.)

Nah. I meant playing small with Green, Zep, and KD. 

[cole256 17,085]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:18 PM, api1957 said:

I'd like to see them play

Mitchell

Brown

Thor

Okoro

Cardwell 

This is an awesome outside of the box line up

[cole256 17,085]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:39 PM, mcgufcm said:

If I had to compete with Pearl players against @cole256's lineup, I'd have to look for wing matchups and shooting.

I'd start with Sharife at PG. He's a terrible defender, but Harp can't stay in front of him either so that gives me (1) the best passer Pearl has ever had by a wide margin and (2) a PG living in the lane.

After that, I need floor spacing. I'd go with KT Harrell for sure because he also had some size at 6'3" or 6'4". I favor picking Okoro because he's a dog defensively and thick enough to push Smith off the nail. Jabari can get his shot based on the height advantage, but it's gonna be a struggle. I want Wiley as my designated screener/diver/rebounder. Plus, I can play Isaac in the dunker's spot off the Cooper/Wiley pick and roll action.

Last spot, I want Samir Doughty over Bryce. Bryce was a better on ball defender, but against that group, we're not worried about ball pressure. We're trying to survive on the glass without giving up shooting. Then, we're going to run the dog out of that team of bigs. We're not getting a lot of stops, but we're trading their 2s for our 3s. I don't think this team beats that team best of 7, but they present mismatches enough to win a few.

 

Cooper

Harrell

Doughty

Okoro

Wiley

I also really enjoyed this line up(s)

[steeleagle 2,945]

18 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Well like I said in the past I've seen you say things about flan that's just not true imo. I won't offer to why as I guess only you know. I just know when you would compare him to Powell it was surprising to me.

As far as his decision making when he played with coop as opposed when he played without him are much different results. When he played without coop he was playing with a bunch of guys scared trying to make stuff happen being the only guy who could create a shot for himself or others. 

When playing with a bunch of guys who he doesn't have to carry I wouldn't worry about his decision making at all.

I didn't pick okoro between flan I picked him between chuma and I'm taking chuma over him every time. But if not for chuma I'm certainly choosing him. I had to pick flan between dunnas, canty, and Brown. I actually almost went with dunnans but I've seen Flan carry guys so he gets the edge

I have no problem with your ideas.

If you have Flan at the 2, I never will want that. I think he's not a good enough ball handler at that position. I realize the 2 and 3 can be interchangeable.

I do agree he is a better defender than Okoro inside and on his man...I also think his left handedness helps him in defending.. and driving on offense.

 

[cole256 17,085]

14 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I have no problem with your ideas.

If you have Flan at the 2, I never will want that. I think he's not a good enough ball handler at that position. I realize the 2 and 3 can be interchangeable.

I do agree he is a better defender than Okoro inside and on his man...I also think his left handedness helps him in defending.. and driving on offense.

 

Right, that's what I mentioned earlier, I know you said that. I don't agree. That's why I mentioned what you said because you said this when everybody was hyping Powell and he's a much better ball handler than Powell but you are comfortable with Powell at the 2. This is where we don't agree.

Flan has showed he can easily take his man off the dribble using both hands. He has also shown the capability of creating his own shot while being defended by the best defenders in the conference. You can't be a weak ball handler but able to do those things imo

[Rednilla 5,449]

4 hours ago, mcgufcm said:

Nah. I meant playing small with Green, Zep, and KD. 

The only problem I have with that is that we're a 3 oriented team, so there are going to be a lot of long rebounds, and short guards don't do as well with that.

I mean, if Allen hadn't gotten hit by that damnable scooter (or whatever it was), then we could easily go Green-KD/Zep-Flan-Jabari-Kessler, and the only decision to be made is whether you want to focus on offense or defense, because at least then you've got one large guard (can't think of Flan as a forward when we play the four out look). I mean, personally, in that case, I'd probably go with offense, because IMHO KD is a better defensive player than Zep is an offensive player (flip sides for both and I think they're about equal).

[gravejd 3,304]

I think I’ll keep the player options to just the Pearl era to make this a bit easier. I also think it’s incredibly hard to compare players across different eras of basketball. 
 

My starting 5:

Harper

KD

Okoro

Jabari

Kessler

 

I think that’s a pretty incredible starting 5. All players can play elite defense and are a threat on the offensive side as well. I think Harper and Jabari provide plenty of shooting. KD and Okoro  are both threats to take it to the rim and can make some outside shots. Kessler and Harper could pick and roll a team to death. And then the size of Jabari and Kessler allows all others to play extremely tight perimeter defense and clean up anything that gets by. 

[gravejd 3,304]

If picking starting 5 for this season…hmm I guess the only question to me is if you want to start Green over Zep. I would have leaned towards Green but he has kind of had a slump lately. I thought Zep played great against OK. So id probably just keep the starting 5 as is. Kind of boring but hard to improve on how Pearl has played this team. 

[Rednilla 5,449]

9 minutes ago, gravejd said:

I think I’ll keep the player options to just the Pearl era to make this a bit easier. I also think it’s incredibly hard to compare players across different eras of basketball. 
 

My starting 5:

Harper

KD

Okoro

Jabari

Kessler

 

I think that’s a pretty incredible starting 5. All players can play elite defense and are a threat on the offensive side as well. I think Harper and Jabari provide plenty of shooting. KD and Okoro  are both threats to take it to the rim and can make some outside shots. Kessler and Harper could pick and roll a team to death. And then the size of Jabari and Kessler allows all others to play extremely tight perimeter defense and clean up anything that gets by. 

I might chose Flanigan over KD for the 2 spot, because if it's all of Pearl's time then it includes last year as well...but then again, maybe not, because KD is clutch.

[Rednilla 5,449]

1 minute ago, gravejd said:

If picking starting 5 for this season…hmm I guess the only question to me is if you want to start Green over Zep. I would have leaned towards Green but he has kind of had a slump lately. I thought Zep played great against OK. So id probably just keep the starting 5 as is. Kind of boring but hard to improve on how Pearl has played this team. 

I can't really agree with that philosophy too well, because you need a true PG, not a CG playing the point.

[gravejd 3,304]

4 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

I can't really agree with that philosophy too well, because you need a true PG, not a CG playing the point.

I don’t follow, both Green and Zep are true PG. 

[Rednilla 5,449]

3 minutes ago, gravejd said:

I don’t follow, both Green and Zep are true PG. 

Zep is a combo guard. He plays the 1 and the 2. If you noticed, he was having trouble against one of the better defensive teams we played when they started harassing him. He can play the point, but he's not a true point.

[gravejd 3,304]

7 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

I might chose Flanigan over KD for the 2 spot, because if it's all of Pearl's time then it includes last year as well...but then again, maybe not, because KD is clutch.

I may agree with that before this year is done. But in my eyes Flan isn’t all there quite yet with his offense. He seems unsure of shooting it deep and he is racking up to many charges when he drives the ball. 

[Rednilla 5,449]

1 minute ago, gravejd said:

I may agree with that before this year is done. But in my eyes Flan isn’t all there quite yet with his offense. He seems unsure of shooting it deep and he is racking up to many charges when he drives the ball. 

He's absolutely not there yet with offense yet, which is why I was so hesitant, but if we're doing alltime Bruce, that includes last year's Flanigan, and he wasn't bad on offense.

[gravejd 3,304]

6 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

Zep is a combo guard. He plays the 1 and the 2. If you noticed, he was having trouble against one of the better defensive teams we played when they started harassing him. He can play the point, but he's not a true point.

I got you. I think Zep is a fine PG. he has struggled at times but so has Green. It’s really splitting hairs as which to start because both have been great this season. Each probably plays better just based on matchups.