"We'll see what that looks like tomorrow."

[W.E.D 11,070]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Do you think that Bo being better than TJ means that Bo was a good enough quarterback?

That is the logical fallacy that KJ and many fans have made. 

Correct. Bo was better than TJ but he's not good enough. 

We've probably be 9-4 with a healthy Bo, but what does that really change?

[Barnacle 9,064]

25 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Do you think that Bo being better than TJ means that Bo was a good enough quarterback?

That is the logical fallacy that KJ and many fans have made. 

It depends on what you mean by good enough. I think Bo was good enough to win yesterday, for whatever that's worth. I don't think that's worth wanting him back - which is the sentiment that I think you are honing in on. What I see is the reality of our offensive situation setting in, and the frustration bleeding out. 

The reality is that Auburn isn't a good place to be a quarterback right now. It wasn't good for Bo. It isn't good for TJ, and until we can get some more help on the OL, and better identify some playmakers at WR, it's not going to be a good situation for the next guy. 

Now, what I take issue with from KJ and others is this idea that the fans ran Bo out of town. I don't believe that. I believe Bo left, like most transfers, for a better situation. I don't think anyone should bear any guilt or blame for Bo leaving, especially when the decision appeared to be a mutual decision between coach and player. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

It depends on what you mean by good enough. I think Bo was good enough to win yesterday, for whatever that's worth. I don't think that's worth wanting him back - which is the sentiment that I think you are honing in on.

Correct. That is the sentiment that I got from his tweet and comments from others, and with which I disagree. 

Quote

The reality is that Auburn isn't a good place to be a quarterback right now. It wasn't good for Bo. It isn't good for TJ, and until we can get some more help on the OL, and better identify some playmakers at WR, it's not going to be a good situation for the next guy. 

It's not great, no. But yesterday isn't a good example of that. Lots of wide open receivers missed. All the help you could have asked for from the defense. Tank was running like his hair was on fire. Hunter, too. A coach who was actually quite stubborn about putting the game in the QB's hands. (For the tinfoil hat crowd, maybe he was advertising the massive opportunity awaiting transfer QBs who are shopping? *popcorn emoji*)

I remain convinced that a genuinely good QB would've done pretty well in this offense this year. But no, 2019 LSU we are not.

Quote

Now, what I take issue with from KJ and others is this idea that the fans ran Bo out of town. I don't believe that. I believe Bo left, like most transfers, for a better situation. I don't think anyone should bear any guilt or blame for Bo leaving, especially when the decision appeared to be a mutual decision between coach and player. 

Yeah, that's some candy ass BS right there. I hate that stuff. I'm not saying it's okay for fans to cross the lines that we do every day but I'm curious what folks think Bo and his family are going to experience elsewhere. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

52 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Correct. Bo was better than TJ but he's not good enough. 

We've probably be 9-4 with a healthy Bo, but what does that really change?

I think it could change a lot? I mean 9-4 looks a hell of a lot more like progress under a new coach than 6-7. Is 9-4 where we want to be? Of course not, but program momentum means something. Harsin could use the momentum. This program could use the momentum. From a perception standpoint, we took a step back this season. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

From a perception standpoint, we took a step back this season.

Depends on whose perception. I'd be surprised if we took a step back in the eyes of recruits. Quite the opposite on offense, actually. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

Just now, McLoofus said:

Depends on whose perception. I'd be surprised if we took a step back in the eyes of recruits. Quite the opposite on offense, actually. 

I guess I have a hard time imagining a world where 9-4 isn't perceived to be better than 6-7, even in the eyes of recruits. We blew leads against MSU, USCe, Bama, and Houston. 9-4 assumes that we took care of business in three of those games, right?

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

I guess I have a hard time imagining a world where 9-4 isn't perceived to be better than 6-7, even in the eyes of recruits. We blew leads against MSU, USCe, Bama, and Houston. 9-4 assumes that we took care of business in three of those games, right?

You said that we took a step back in terms of perception and that is what I responded to.

I'm not sure where the 9-4 vs 6-7 comes in with regard to how a recruit would perceive Auburn as a potential program to play for. If you're suggesting that the difference might be viewed as a referendum on the coaching staff's ability to develop recruits in the 2022 class and beyond into winning, NFL-caliber players, then I can see where that might make sense, but I don't agree. 

Loof the recruit likely sees the same thing that Loof the idiot message board guy sees, which is:

-Yes, a team that was a few play(er)s away from being a 10-win (IMO) team- aka opportunity. There are lots of reasons to blow leads in college football, but I think most informed people would agree that insufficient depth ranks very highly on that list. Especially when they all occurred late in the season.
-An offense that offers everything that a player at any position would need to get to the NFL
-A coach who trusts his players to make the plays
-A very good defense showing potential to be dominant (whatever that means in the current climate)
-All the same advantages that Auburn football already had in terms of recruiting, except with what is almost universally considered a much more professional approach in terms of how marketing and recruit relations are handled. 

If a recruit is comparing Auburn in 2021 to Auburn in 2020, then I'd think they'd see a much more desirable program to play for, particularly on offense. 

[gravejd 3,281]

We definitely took a few steps back this season. Does that mean we are doomed....not necessarily but it does mean we have a steeper hill to climb. Harsin was already battling the perception of being in over his head coming in with no SEC experience. This season has just reinforced that he looks to be in over his head. Harsin went from promising new coach to struggling new coach. Good news is that he can turn things around in just one season. Go get a decent QB and go get some decent OL and then maybe he can jump back up to promising new coach instead of struggling new coach. We have such a long way to go on offense though. Hard to see a major turn around in one season. Especially with Harsin being the defacto OC next season and a likely brand new QB. But hey maybe the mix of Davis and Harsin will create some magic. I imagine we'll struggle again but maybe we can see the improvement next season that we did not see this season. And then going into year 3 there will be hope of competing at a high level again. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, gravejd said:

I imagine we'll struggle again but maybe we can see the improvement next season that we did not see this season.

A lot of us did see a lot of improvement this season...

Quote

And then going into year 3 there will be hope of competing at a high level again. 

...and already have plenty of hope that we'll be competing at a high level in 2023. 

[SRBautigerfan 1,040]

1 hour ago, Barnacle said:

The reality is that Auburn isn't a good place to be a quarterback right now. It wasn't good for Bo. It isn't good for TJ, and until we can get some more help on the OL, and better identify some playmakers at WR, it's not going to be a good situation for the next guy. 

This is our reality at the moment and we all know what its going to take to fix it.  The unknown part is where does Dee Davis fit in?  Is he waiting to be processed or is he relegated to long range project?  No one knows at this point.

[LPTiger 5,257]

1 hour ago, Barnacle said:

 

The reality is that Auburn isn't a good place to be a quarterback right now. It wasn't good for Bo. It isn't good for TJ, and until we can get some more help on the OL, and better identify some playmakers at WR, it's not going to be a good situation for the next guy. 

Barnacle, I respect your take.  Another take is that Bo and TJ were not good for Auburn.   Yesterday the OL blocked well and our wide outs got open on 4 different TD plays, and TJ simply couldn't deliver the ball.   On 3 of them, our wideouts couldn't even get a finger on the ball.  These balls were not simply misplaced, they were horribly misplaced.  The first was a post to Kobe in the south end zone that TJ sailed high and long.   The second was the ball 6 snatched off the turf for a catch (after review) where TJ threw short and inside (where the safety wasn't over the top).  The third was the only target to Dawson down the AU sideline toward the north end zone where TJ threw high and long.   The fourth was to Malcolm Johnson 2 plays after the Dawson miss.   On the other hand, Houston's QB missed just one potential TD on a poorly thrown, I think, wheel route down their sideline.   (I also think TJ also threw Kobe out of bounds on another ball in the south end zone).     

[aucom96 1,648]

4 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

Barnacle, I respect your take.  Another take is that Bo and TJ were not good for Auburn.   Yesterday the OL blocked well and our wide outs got open on 4 different TD plays, and TJ simply couldn't deliver the ball.   On 3 of them, our wideouts couldn't even get a finger on the ball.  These balls were not simply misplaced, they were horribly misplaced.  The first was a post to Kobe in the south end zone that TJ sailed high and long.   The second was the ball 6 snatched off the turf for a catch (after review) where TJ threw short and inside (where the safety wasn't over the top).  The third was the only target to Dawson down the AU sideline toward the north end zone where TJ threw high and long.   The fourth was to Malcolm Johnson 2 plays after the Dawson miss.   On the other hand, Houston's QB missed just one potential TD on a poorly thrown, I think, wheel route down their sideline.   (I also think TJ also threw Kobe out of bounds on another ball in the south end zone).     

No QB is going to prove much of a factor when linebackers are shooting the gaps into the backfield a second after the ball is snapped.

Finley is not a starter level SEC QB, but he’s decent enough when he has time. Nix’s feet masked just how bad our line situation was early in the season. Next year, that problem will likely be more pronounced and until we are able to address it, we’re going to struggle offensively on and off the field. 

[gravejd 3,281]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

A lot of us did see a lot of improvement this season...

...and already have plenty of hope that we'll be competing at a high level in 2023. 

I'll give you that the defense saw improvement. I don't think we saw any improvement on offense. The new scheme was refreshing to see but hard for me to point to any improvement on that side of the ball. After the first half of the Miss St game the offense was a complete mess. Would not have topped 20 pts in the last 3 games without the 4 OTs against bama. And now that we will be having a brand new OC(kinda), OL and QB (i hope) we are basically starting over again next season. 

Maybe the defense can carry us until the new offense gets up to speed. But this year was a waste on the offensive side of the ball. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

You said that we took a step back in terms of perception and that is what I responded to.

I'm not sure where the 9-4 vs 6-7 comes in with regard to how a recruit would perceive Auburn as a potential program to play for. If you're suggesting that the difference might be viewed as a referendum on the coaching staff's ability to develop recruits in the 2022 class and beyond into winning, NFL-caliber players, then I can see where that might make sense, but I don't agree. 

Loof the recruit likely sees the same thing that Loof the idiot message board guy sees, which is:

-Yes, a team that was a few play(er)s away from being a 10-win (IMO) team- aka opportunity. There are lots of reasons to blow leads in college football, but I think most informed people would agree that insufficient depth ranks very highly on that list. Especially when they all occurred late in the season.
-An offense that offers everything that a player at any position would need to get to the NFL
-A coach who trusts his players to make the plays
-A very good defense showing potential to be dominant (whatever that means in the current climate)
-All the same advantages that Auburn football already had in terms of recruiting, except with what is almost universally considered a much more professional approach in terms of how marketing and recruit relations are handled. 

If a recruit is comparing Auburn in 2021 to Auburn in 2020, then I'd think they'd see a much more desirable program to play for, particularly on offense. 

I don't disagree with all the reasons that a recruit might look at Auburn and like what they are seeing. I'm just arguing that winning/results matters, and would enhance and add credibility to everything you mentioned. I don't feel like we've taken a step back personally, but there clearly many who do, and I don't see any reason why some recruits would be immune from that point of view. If we are having to explain why losing the last five games of the season isn't as bad as it looks, then we are behind the eight ball. Winning doesn't require context or explanation. Just my opinion. 

Anyway, I didn't intend to get into the weeds about perceptions, since they are so subjective. I just didn't understand the earlier comment from WED that being 9-4 wouldn't change anything. Winning changes everything. 

 

[au302 2,669]

Go watch Boise highlights from 2016 when Harsin called plays, or any year he was HC. Same offense, but the difference is that Rypien hit the deep balls, and they constantly had explosive plays. Further, a lot of the playbook this year was supposedly Bobo stuff. We'll probably scrap that this spring and implement the rest of Harsin's offense.

Probably not feasible to do it during bowl prep, but we already looked different yesterday. We need massive help at OL and WR, but getting a QB that can execute should instantly cure some woes

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

I don't disagree with all the reasons that a recruit might look at Auburn and like what they are seeing. I'm just arguing that winning/results matters, and would enhance and add credibility to everything you mentioned. I don't feel like we've taken a step back personally, but there clearly many who do, and I don't see any reason why some recruits would be immune from that point of view. If we are having to explain why losing the last five games of the season isn't as bad as it looks, then we are behind the eight ball. Winning doesn't require context or explanation. Just my opinion. 

Anyway, I didn't intend to get into the weeds about perceptions, since they are so subjective. I just didn't understand the earlier comment from WED that being 9-4 wouldn't change anything. Winning changes everything. 

Gotcha. Yeah, I mean, it's better. No question about that. It's better for the players, it's better for positioning us going into next season in terms of rankings and TV visibility, it's better for building fan interest, all of these things combine to bring in at least a little more money... winning's better. For sure.

I only meant to speak to the recruiting thing.

[Didba 5,303]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

You said that we took a step back in terms of perception and that is what I responded to.

I'm not sure where the 9-4 vs 6-7 comes in with regard to how a recruit would perceive Auburn as a potential program to play for. If you're suggesting that the difference might be viewed as a referendum on the coaching staff's ability to develop recruits in the 2022 class and beyond into winning, NFL-caliber players, then I can see where that might make sense, but I don't agree. 

Loof the recruit likely sees the same thing that Loof the idiot message board guy sees, which is:

-Yes, a team that was a few play(er)s away from being a 10-win (IMO) team- aka opportunity. There are lots of reasons to blow leads in college football, but I think most informed people would agree that insufficient depth ranks very highly on that list. Especially when they all occurred late in the season.
-An offense that offers everything that a player at any position would need to get to the NFL
-A coach who trusts his players to make the plays
-A very good defense showing potential to be dominant (whatever that means in the current climate)
-All the same advantages that Auburn football already had in terms of recruiting, except with what is almost universally considered a much more professional approach in terms of how marketing and recruit relations are handled. 

If a recruit is comparing Auburn in 2021 to Auburn in 2020, then I'd think they'd see a much more desirable program to play for, particularly on offense. 

I agree, wholeheartedly. So many on here see the program trending downward and taking a step back, etc. whereas I and others that know believe it is actually trending upward.  Only looking at offensive scheme and not the other positives like the defense, we are trending upward from the scheme we had under Gus.

Recruits can actual come here and run a scheme that will translate to the NFL unlike Gus's.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Didba

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, gravejd said:

I'll give you that the defense saw improvement. I don't think we saw any improvement on offense. The new scheme was refreshing to see but hard for me to point to any improvement on that side of the ball. After the first half of the Miss St game the offense was a complete mess. Would not have topped 20 pts in the last 3 games without the 4 OTs against bama. And now that we will be having a brand new OC(kinda), OL and QB (i hope) we are basically starting over again next season. 

Maybe the defense can carry us until the new offense gets up to speed. But this year was a waste on the offensive side of the ball. 

Yeah, so we're looking at this very differently.

To me, installing the new schemes is one of the two most important improvements we needed. The other one is getting the players. Getting the players takes time. We could have probably won another game or two or maybe picked up another OL by now but otherwise we've done quite a bit of what we are reasonably able to do at this point. Furthermore, showing those schemes is going to have a lot to do with being able to attract the talent we want. 

As for production, no, we didn't improve. But that was never a particularly realistic goal in year 1 of a major program overhaul. Losing QB1 for the home stretch of the season certainly didn't help. 

The "offense up to speed" part... that's the key. To me, it's just a matter of letting that happen. If what I saw this season suggested to me that that's not going to happen, then I wouldn't see improvement, either. But I think it's going to, and I think this season was a huge first step towards realizing that goal.

[DAG 34,103]

We took a step back from a record standpoint of course. The question is what are we building? CGM could be here and we could win 8 games every year and possibly a destiny year every once in a while but are we moving anywhere as a program? The hope is this season starts a foundational build E.G. Clemson.  The problem is people don’t have patience. They want everything right now and they want results right now. Now with that being said , we got to see improvement next year and the next and the next. That is just the bottom line. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Gotcha. Yeah, I mean, it's better. No question about that. It's better for the players, it's better for positioning us going into next season in terms of rankings and TV visibility, it's better for building fan interest, all of these things combine to bring in at least a little more money... winning's better. For sure.

I only meant to speak to the recruiting thing.

Yeah, and I'll say this: the lack of OL notwithstanding, I'm impressed with how this staff has recruited, despite our record. It shows kids are buying into what he is trying to build and understand he's only beginning. Would 9-4 and a win against Bama have improved recruiting? I don't know enough about it, and I'd just be speculating, but I feel confident in saying it wouldn't have hurt us, but I think you already agree with that. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Yeah, and I'll say this: the lack of OL notwithstanding, I'm impressed with how this staff has recruited, despite our record. It shows kids are buying into what he is trying to build and understand he's only beginning. Would 9-4 and a win against Bama have improved recruiting? I don't know enough about it, and I'd just be speculating, but I feel confident in saying it wouldn't have hurt us, but I think you already agree with that. 

Indeed, I do. 

[Hank2020 3,232]

5 hours ago, W.E.D said:

Correct. Bo was better than TJ but he's not good enough. 

We've probably be 9-4 with a healthy Bo, but what does that really change?

I agree that is probably where we would be with healthy Bo. IMO it changes a great deal. One of those 9 wins would have probably been Bama. That changes a lot but probably not QB situation.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Man. It's actually eerie how much our season mirrors bama's 2007 season. Except they had a healthy QB1 the entire time.

They even had a kicker named Carlson.

No, I'm not predicting that our 2022 will look like their 2008.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

5 hours ago, Barnacle said:

I’m happy that Bo has moved on, but do you not think that Bo is better than TJ? 

YES!!

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I guess he doesn't owe fans a reason but I sure would like to know why he didn't play DD at least a little. Harsin just looked like he was reading a cheat sheet most of the game. You would think by now he could call the plays without much of that. He just looked lost but I think that's his unemotional demeanor we just have to get used too.