If you still don’t see it was an attempted coup

[homersapien 12,265]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

I never said he didn’t intend to defeat our election system.  I said he was a sore loser and no one with any power backed his play.  Don’t put words in my mouth.

So, just to clarify, you believe that Trump intended to have himself named as the winner in 2020, thus successfully pulling off a coup to retain the office?

If so, then we agree. 

If not, what are you arguing exactly?

[homersapien 12,265]

19 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This part is laughable.  The Democratic Party wouldn’t nominate someone like Trump, but they also wouldn’t nominate a black, woman or gay candidate because they feared anyone of those couldn’t beat Trump.  What a platform to run on and we are paying the price. 

And it was successful.  This country is too conservative - and our election system is far too biased toward that conservatism - to elect any of the black, women or gays that were running for office.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 12,265]

On 12/1/2021 at 5:23 PM, I_M4_AU said:

The Democrats are so afraid of Trump they are spending time and effort to make sure he can’t run again in 2024.  Try running the country and it wouldn’t matter if he ran in 2024, but right now, under Brandon’s leadership, Trump may be a shoe-in.

What???!!  

Even you admit Trump made a (failed) effort to retain the presidency.  That effort included an unprecedented violent invasion of our capitol building by U.S. citizens and 4 people died as a result.

I think that's worth an investigation.

And it won't prevent Trump from running again.  And I suspect Democrats would prefer Trump to run in 2024.  I know I would.

And nothing they are doing could or will prevent it.

Edited December 24, 2021 by homersapien

[I_M4_AU 8,981]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I don't really understand your specific points.  Hitler came to power because he convinced Hindenburg to name him as chancellor.  Fear - and likely senility on Hinden bergs part - along with the political support of powerful players allowed it to happen.

My point was that Hitler didn't become chancellor because of an electoral victory.   He gamed the system politically, just as Trump wanted to do.  

Hindenburg assured by Frank von Papen that Hitler could be easily controlled.  That turned out to be incorrect.  There is no evidence that Hindenburg was senile, he was 86 when he died, so more like tired and ready to step down.  He died within a year after he appointed Hitler to Chancellor.

Two successive governments, one headed by Franz von Papen, a former cavalry officer, the other by Schleicher, failed to win the support of the Nazis. Hitler insisted on becoming chancellor in any government in which his party participated, but, despite a deluge of petitions and letters, Hindenburg, who distrusted Hitler’s noisy aggressiveness, would not concede him that post. In November 1932, however, when the Nazis lost 10 percent of their vote in new Reichstag elections, Papen and Hitler agreed on forming a government with Hitler as chancellor, Papen as vice chancellor, and non-Nazis in most other posts. Hindenburg was assured by Papen that Hitler could easily be controlled. When Schleicher failed in his efforts to obtain parliamentary support for his government, Hindenburg, frustrated and tired, asked for his resignation. On January 30, 1933, Hindenburg appointed Hitler chancellor of a new Cabinet in which only two other Nazis, Wilhelm Frick and Hermann Göring, held offices.

Papen’s safeguards proved ineffective. Hitler quickly secured almost unlimited political power through terror, manipulations, and false promises. Hindenburg on his part accommodated himself to the new situation and, in effect, became a warm supporter of Hitler, although making an occasional innocuousgesture that seemed to set him apart from the Führer and the Nazi Party. At the time of his death, Hindenburg was still a revered, though remote, national figure.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Paul-von-Hindenburg

Yes, Trump wanted to game the system, but he had NO support from powerful people and he still doesn’t with regard to regaining the Presidency he lost in 2020.

[homersapien 12,265]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

Hindenburg assured by Frank von Papen that Hitler could be easily controlled.  That turned out to be incorrect.  There is no evidence that Hindenburg was senile, he was 86 when he died, so more like tired and ready to step down.  He died within a year after he appointed Hitler to Chancellor.

Two successive governments, one headed by Franz von Papen, a former cavalry officer, the other by Schleicher, failed to win the support of the Nazis. Hitler insisted on becoming chancellor in any government in which his party participated, but, despite a deluge of petitions and letters, Hindenburg, who distrusted Hitler’s noisy aggressiveness, would not concede him that post. In November 1932, however, when the Nazis lost 10 percent of their vote in new Reichstag elections, Papen and Hitler agreed on forming a government with Hitler as chancellor, Papen as vice chancellor, and non-Nazis in most other posts. Hindenburg was assured by Papen that Hitler could easily be controlled. When Schleicher failed in his efforts to obtain parliamentary support for his government, Hindenburg, frustrated and tired, asked for his resignation. On January 30, 1933, Hindenburg appointed Hitler chancellor of a new Cabinet in which only two other Nazis, Wilhelm Frick and Hermann Göring, held offices.

Papen’s safeguards proved ineffective. Hitler quickly secured almost unlimited political power through terror, manipulations, and false promises. Hindenburg on his part accommodated himself to the new situation and, in effect, became a warm supporter of Hitler, although making an occasional innocuousgesture that seemed to set him apart from the Führer and the Nazi Party. At the time of his death, Hindenburg was still a revered, though remote, national figure.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Paul-von-Hindenburg

Yes, Trump wanted to game the system, but he had NO support from powerful people and he still doesn’t with regard to regaining the Presidency he lost in 2020.

So again, what's your point?  Hitler succeeded, Trump didn't.

Where do we disagree about this?

[I_M4_AU 8,981]

12 minutes ago, homersapien said:

So, just to clarify, you believe that Trump intended to have himself named as the winner in 2020, thus successfully pulling off a coup to retain the office?

If so, then we agree. 

If not, what are you arguing exactly?

Yes, Trump intended to have himself named the winner through some creative means, but (and here is where we differ) he had NO MEANINGFUL SUPORT to pull it off.  The *insurrection* was an emotional outcry from idiot people that had no organization behind it and those idiots are being handed down jail sentences to pay for their crimes, as they should be held accountable.

[I_M4_AU 8,981]

11 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That effort included an unprecedented violent invasion of our capitol building by U.S. citizens

I don’t believe the effort included the *insurrection*, that is a pure Democrat wish.

[homersapien 12,265]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, Trump intended to have himself named the winner through some creative means, but (and here is where we differ) he had NO MEANINGFUL SUPORT to pull it off.  The *insurrection* was an emotional outcry from idiot people that had no organization behind it and those idiots are being handed down jail sentences to pay for their crimes, as they should be held accountable.

How is that relevant to the discussion?  Hitler succeeded, Trump didn't.

Again, where are we disagreeing?

Do you think we shouldn't investigate what happened to see exactly what Trump's effort consisted of and who supported him in that effort?

And please, don't act like the insurrectionists on Jan. 6 had no support from Trump and his henchmen (like Bannon).  That's another aspect the current investigation is trying to pin down.

[autigeremt 7,240]

It was never a coup attempt. Or at least one that had ANY chance of doing anything other than cause an uproar and an unfortunate death. 

 

The attempts in Oregon and Washington state to create nation states in the name of "liberation" is more akin to a coup....just on a smaller scale

[homersapien 12,265]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I don’t believe the effort included the *insurrection*, that is a pure Democrat wish.

bull****. 

That's just pure unadulterated denial. 

Listen to what the rioters said about why they were there.  Listen to Trump's words, along with his henchmen.  They singled out Pence, why was that?  

And again, this is one of the aspects that are being addressed by the investigation.

[I_M4_AU 8,981]

34 minutes ago, homersapien said:

How is that relevant to the discussion?  Hitler succeeded, Trump didn't.

Again, where are we disagreeing?

Trump did not succeed because he had no support from powerful people, Hitler succeeded because he did have support from powerful people.  I can’t make it any plainer.

32 minutes ago, homersapien said:

And again, this is one of the aspects that are being addressed by the investigation.

Let the investigation continue.  

[DKW 86 7,914]

trump may have wished it, but it was never, at any point, seriously going to go anywhere. 

If you think it was, you are totally delusional.

Edited December 3, 2021 by DKW 86

[AUFAN78 4,161]

32 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

trump may have wished it, but it was never, at any point, seriously going to go anywhere. 

If you think it was, you are totally delusional.

You honestly don't think the guy in the bullhorn hat could have presided over a congressional session?

[DKW 86 7,914]

No, if we wanted a Senate Shaman we would have already had a Senate Shaman ……

[autigeremt 7,240]

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

bull****. 

That's just pure unadulterated denial. 

Listen to what the rioters said about why they were there.  Listen to Trump's words, along with his henchmen.  They singled out Pence, why was that?  

And again, this is one of the aspects that are being addressed by the investigation.

Listen to the words of a lot of rioters.....most often it's a bunch of nonsense and bloviating. Your party is the champion of the riot clan so this should be easy for you to understand.......

[homersapien 12,265]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:16 AM, autigeremt said:

Listen to the words of a lot of rioters.....most often it's a bunch of nonsense and bloviating. Your party is the champion of the riot clan so this should be easy for you to understand.......

These people were there for only one reason EMT: to have Trump declared POTUS.  It doesn't matter if they were stupid enough to actually believe Trump, the violent attempt was made. That's on Trump.

And Democrats don't "champion the riot clan". That's a childish assertion. 

Democrats do understand why such riots sometimes break out and would address those root causes to the extent possible. 

It's foolish to dismiss concerns over racial inequity because of a few bad actors - out of millions of protestors who made their points peacefully. So how do you feel about the repeated instances of innocent black people being gunned down by the police?

 

Did they have it coming as members of the "riot clan"?

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by homersapien

[autigeremt 7,240]

46 minutes ago, homersapien said:

These people were there for only one reason EMT: to have Trump declared POTUS.  It doesn't matter if they were stupid enough to actually believe Trump, the violent attempt was made. That's on Trump.

And Democrats don't "champion the riot clan". That's a childish assertion. 

Democrats do understand why such riots sometimes break out and would address those root causes to the extent possible. 

It's foolish to dismiss concerns over racial inequity because of a few bad actors - out of millions of protestors who made their points peacefully. So how do you feel about the repeated instances of innocent black people being gunned down by the police. 

Did they have it coming as members of the "riot clan"?

 

Democrats FUND such riots and bus them in so STOP being such a "homer". lol 

 

Give me a break over the "issues" Democrats believe in. The proof of their "care" is in the cities they run. 

[homersapien 12,265]

9 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Democrats FUND such riots and bus them in so STOP being such a "homer". lol 

 

Give me a break over the "issues" Democrats believe in. The proof of their "care" is in the cities they run. 

Funding a protest is not funding a riot.  You're letting your bigotry show by equating them.

Cities are the drivers of economic growth. There are more Democratic mayors than Republican mayors likely because of that bigotry you are exhibiting. 

 

 

[DKW 86 7,914]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Funding a protest is not funding a riot.  You're letting your bigotry show by equating them.

Cities are the drivers of economic growth. There are more Democratic mayors than Republican mayors likely because of that bigotry you are exhibiting. 

 

 

Detroit says hi….

[CoffeeTiger 5,914]

6 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Listen to the words of a lot of rioters.....most often it's a bunch of nonsense and bloviating. 

 

This pretty well describes political discussions with most Trump Supporters TBH. 

 

unfortunately, there were and still are A LOT of Trump supporters in the Republican Party

[autigeremt 7,240]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Funding a protest is not funding a riot.  You're letting your bigotry show by equating them.

Cities are the drivers of economic growth. There are more Democratic mayors than Republican mayors likely because of that bigotry you are exhibiting. 

 

 

You can't back up your name calling so I'd suggest you turn tail. You can't handle the truth. 

[autigeremt 7,240]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

This pretty well describes political discussions with most Trump Supporters TBH. 

 

unfortunately, there were and still are A LOT of Trump supporters in the Republican Party

I don't support either so........

[homersapien 12,265]

On 12/3/2021 at 4:53 PM, autigeremt said:

You can't back up your name calling so I'd suggest you turn tail. You can't handle the truth. 

What "name calling"?

What truth? Anyone protesting racial inequity is a rioter by definition?

What specifically is my claim you say I can't backup?

Edited December 5, 2021 by homersapien

[McLoofus 35,182]

 

[SaturdayGT 719]

  A free country is when the Government fears its people....a tyranny is when the people fear the Government..

....Im not near as concerned about a bounch of nuts invading the capital and "scaring" some Government officials (self described patriots..lol)....its a joke....Government Divaness..

Real world people doing the right stuff to build businesses,  hire people and do more than those in that capital,...they had their livelihood burned, trashed ..ultimately destroyed.....not a single congress person is out of a job......tell me again about how the capital stuff is so horrible,