Auburn fired Gus Malzahn too quickly

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

2 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

My opinion is it doesn't have to be one or the other....it could have been time to let Gus go and Harsin can still be a bad hire. Gus needed to go...the program was stale and stagnant with him. I will say you only fire a guy if you can get a better guy and Auburn almost always goes with the unproven candidate. Tuberville was probably as close to a proven candidate as we had, but even hadn't proven he could win in the SEC at an elite level. Unfortunately, there's really very little truly proven elite coaches, hence why the administration has a huge responsibility in accurately projecting success. We always have the benefit of hindsight, but based on results, our admin has seemed to consistently get it wrong to produce long-term success (mostly expressed by the fact we've only had back to back 10 win years ONCE EVER). 

This how I feel too. 

[au302 2,669]

56 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Why do you think that recruiting momentum was horrid?  Could it be due to the fact that he was being undermined from within? Was the constant topic of hot seat speculation?  Is there any reason to believe that the class would have been better but for that?  YES  Why?  Because the 2020 class was ranked #7 in the nation.  We can atleast tell the truth when we discuss something.

This class is all on Harsin/Bobo etc.  It has nothing to do with other coaches.  They have been here a year.

Come on. We are our own worst enemy, but Gus had eight years, drew a ridiculous salary, and did it to himself. I can understand why the recruiting fell off. Let's be real, if I was a neutral recruit and I saw stuff such as Gus blowing Asa Martins redshirt and not even realizing it, terrible QB evals and development, poor player development in general, and trying to fit players into certain roles that become so predictable I'd be concerned too. We will see how the '21 class pans out. Jarquez and Landen King sure are promising. Colby Smith looks like he could be a future RT for us. We'll see, but Gus had too much time imo

[bigbird 60,624]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

This class is all on Harsin/Bobo etc.

Recruiting is based on relationships. Relationships that have been forged over 4-6+ years.  Thinking Gus and co have had no effect on this or the '23 class is just flat out wrong.

[The Freak 2,530]

19 minutes ago, bigbird said:

He's literally did that exact same thing many times the last 8 years. 

 

3rd and < 2 = statue of liberty, sugar huddle toss left, or wildcat off tackle rt

3rd and 10+ = draw/bubble/IZ 

 

I remember joking about that quite a few times in the game threads.  All part of his RRPP (run run pass punt) offense.

The play sheet that gus had said:

1st down: run up the middle.

2nd down: run up the middle.

3rd and short: throw the bomb.

3rd and long: throw 5 yards short of the marker. 

4th down: punt.

[bigbird 60,624]

2 minutes ago, The Freak said:

I remember joking about that quite a few times in the game threads.  All part of his RRPP (run run pass punt) offense.

The play sheet that gus had said:

1st down: run up the middle.

2nd down: run up the middle.

3rd and short: throw the bomb.

3rd and long: throw 5 yards short of the marker. 

4th down: punt.

Rinse and repeat...

[johnnyAU 3,685]

Instead of too quickly, it was a few  years too late.

[Viper 3,156]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

At least there were also plays like the one below.

 

With a QB who ran a 4.4? Who also kept begging Gus to let him run the RPO on that drive?

What will always be incredible is the fact that with the clock continuing to run under 2 minutes left, then under 1 minute left, without calling a single timeout, Gus got to run his fav play (HB dive) six consecutive plays in a row and dink’s NFL D couldn’t stop it. 

To me, that is more miraculous than the chances of the Kick Six scoring. 

[au302 2,669]

I just went and looked at all of our classes from 2013 onwards, and I would encourage all of you to do the same. What I took away was that we had a horrendous track record with our 5 stars. Derrick Brown probably the only one he brought in that lived up. Pappoe and Nix are solid but probably not as great as expected coming in.

 Another big takeaway is the amount of guys who either left, never played, busted, or were not starters. Some of Gus's best players were probably some of his lower rated signees (Daniel Thomas, etc). This staff needs to do a better job of evaluating, retaining, and developing guys or they won't last either. They need to pull talent in, but it doesn't matter if they leave or bust like under Gus

[e808 3,028]

20 minutes ago, au302 said:

I just went and looked at all of our classes from 2013 onwards, and I would encourage all of you to do the same. What I took away was that we had a horrendous track record with our 5 stars. Derrick Brown probably the only one he brought in that lived up. Pappoe and Nix are solid but probably not as great as expected coming in.

 Another big takeaway is the amount of guys who either left, never played, busted, or were not starters. Some of Gus's best players were probably some of his lower rated signees (Daniel Thomas, etc). This staff needs to do a better job of evaluating, retaining, and developing guys or they won't last either. They need to pull talent in, but it doesn't matter if they leave or bust like under Gus

IMO u have to look at the 5 and highly rated 4s. The thing is games were won in spite of him because u had the horses to do it. Only if he coached them up . Kirby even said it himself u have to have recruits . Coaching is a small percentage.  

Not sure what the argument is here even with those guys gone Auburn still had a lot of highly rated talent.

Edited November 23, 2021 by e808

[woodford 3,688]

2 hours ago, Viper said:

With a QB who ran a 4.4? Who also kept begging Gus to let him run the RPO on that drive?

What will always be incredible is the fact that with the clock continuing to run under 2 minutes left, then under 1 minute left, without calling a single timeout, Gus got to run his fav play (HB dive) six consecutive plays in a row and dink’s NFL D couldn’t stop it. 

To me, that is more miraculous than the chances of the Kick Six scoring. 

The TD pass to Coates to tie it up is one of the most important and underrated TD’s in Auburn history. That was incredible to see. 

[cbo 8,112]

Imagine you have a girlfriend that cheats on you. After 8 years, you finally leave her. Then your new girlfriend cheats on you. Your only conclusion is "I left the old girlfriend too quickly."

You are going to have a hard life. 

[au302 2,669]

13 minutes ago, e808 said:

IMO u have to look at the 5 and highly rated 4s. The thing is games were won in spite of him because u had the horses to do it. Only if he coached them up . Kirby even said it himself u have to have recruits . Coaching is a small percentage 

Absolutely. We are going to have to pull some studs. I completely agree. My hope is that the evaluations are better. Maybe 3 star Geriner turns out to be better than 5 star Nix. He may never do more than ride the bench of course, but who knows. We just need to hit on more of these guys.

I'm not expecting a guy like Alston to be our stud bell cow, but hopefully they develop him to the point that he's a better #2 or #3 back than a DJ Williams or MAR. We'll see, but I do like the frames and ceilings on some of these guys (Geriner, Riley-Ducker, Harris especially)

[bigbird 60,624]

58 minutes ago, au302 said:

I just went and looked at all of our classes from 2013 onwards, and I would encourage all of you to do the same. What I took away was that we had a horrendous track record with our 5 stars. Derrick Brown probably the only one he brought in that lived up. Pappoe and Nix are solid but probably not as great as expected coming in.

 Another big takeaway is the amount of guys who either left, never played, busted, or were not starters. Some of Gus's best players were probably some of his lower rated signees (Daniel Thomas, etc). This staff needs to do a better job of evaluating, retaining, and developing guys or they won't last either. They need to pull talent in, but it doesn't matter if they leave or bust like under Gus

Just look at the #9 nationality ranked 2016 class.

https://247sports.com/college/auburn/season/2016-football/commits/

Gus was such a great recruiter? GMAFB

Some people are just clueless.

[Viper 3,156]

27 minutes ago, woodford said:

The TD pass to Coates to tie it up is one of the most important and underrated TD’s in Auburn history. That was incredible to see. 

It was. But it was wide open. The six consecutive HB dives that dink, kirbs and their NFL D knew was coming, but couldn’t stop, weren’t as flashy as the Coates TD, but were way more incredible.

From 2008 up until that drive, who ran up the middle on dink & kirb’s D like that six consecutive times? No one.

Listen to Bramblett calling the last couple of runs. Not only he was anxious about the time running out, you could easily hear the crowd wondering when Gus was going to call timeout.

[au302 2,669]

5 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Just look at the #9 nationality ranked 2016 class.

https://247sports.com/college/auburn/season/2016-football/commits/

Gus was such a great recruiter? GMAFB

Some people are just clueless.

That class especially ended up sucking. I counted 8 guys that ended up contributing. That's if you count Nick Coe and Kam Martin. The two lowest recruits, Thomas and Manning, are two of the top contributors. 14 guys that left. That is mind numbingly bad

[SRBautigerfan 1,040]

1 hour ago, au302 said:

I just went and looked at all of our classes from 2013 onwards, and I would encourage all of you to do the same. What I took away was that we had a horrendous track record with our 5 stars. Derrick Brown probably the only one he brought in that lived up. Pappoe and Nix are solid but probably not as great as expected coming in.

 Another big takeaway is the amount of guys who either left, never played, busted, or were not starters. Some of Gus's best players were probably some of his lower rated signees (Daniel Thomas, etc). This staff needs to do a better job of evaluating, retaining, and developing guys or they won't last either. They need to pull talent in, but it doesn't matter if they leave or bust like under Gus

Another enlightening read is a Recruiting post by Paladin on the Transfer Portal (2021) thread.  The portal is a game changer.

[bigbird 60,624]

5 minutes ago, au302 said:

That class especially ended up sucking. I counted 8 guys that ended up contributing. That's if you count Nick Coe and Kam Martin. The two lowest recruits, Thomas and Manning, are two of the top contributors. 14 guys that left. That is mind numbingly bad

A class full of all-timers and never were's

[bigbird 60,624]

2 minutes ago, SRBautigerfan said:

Another enlightening read is a Recruiting post by Paladin on the Transfer Portal (2021) thread.  The portal is a game changer.

It's the only way CBH and co salvaged Gus' 2021, #40+ ranked, stellar class.

[au302 2,669]

11 minutes ago, SRBautigerfan said:

Another enlightening read is a Recruiting post by Paladin on the Transfer Portal (2021) thread.  The portal is a game changer.

Game changer. Fix our HS evals and then you can use the portal to bolster depth. Imagine bringing in Tony Fair and Marcus Harris as rotational depth pieces rather than having to bring them in to be starters. They have both been very solid and are starting caliber players, but you get the point. D-Rob too. Would be a fine pickup if we had the depth to bring him in as backup piece, but we were relying on him to be our go to guy

[e808 3,028]

Let’s do this the Gus apologist vs the Harsinators since this isn’t going away. So far Harsin is behind in wins and recruiting. The battle of mediocrity .

Has followed begin Gus twice and both times ended up with a worst record.

Edited November 23, 2021 by e808

[Randman5000 4,239]

7 minutes ago, e808 said:

Let’s do this the Gus apologist vs the Harsinators since this isn’t going away. So far Harsin is behind in wins and recruiting. The battle of mediocrity 

Sounds like a solid year

[AUwent 3,784]

7 hours ago, Viper said:

I said just prior to the 2016 LSU game that it was a “loser leaves town” match. Remember Gus was fresh off the 2015 debacle. He, like Les, was also ripe to be fired.

At the moment, I so wanted that win. In hindsight, it’s a double-edged sword. I’m glad Gus won because we got Stidham and won the West in 2017. But after that, we suffered another 3 seasons with Gus. 

That 2016 LSU win saved Gus. Agreed with others…he should have been let go long ago. 

Yeah you never don't want a win over a rival. But yes it was a double edged sword.

 

[auburnphan 6,050]

4 hours ago, The Freak said:

I remember joking about that quite a few times in the game threads.  All part of his RRPP (run run pass punt) offense.

The play sheet that gus had said:

1st down: run up the middle.

2nd down: run up the middle.

3rd and short: throw the bomb.

3rd and long: throw 5 yards short of the marker. 

4th down: punt.

This post made me laugh, cry, get angry and then happy................... that it is all over with!!!!!!

 

well done sir

[auburnphan 6,050]

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Why do you think that recruiting momentum was horrid?  Could it be due to the fact that he was being undermined from within? Was the constant topic of hot seat speculation?  Is there any reason to believe that the class would have been better but for that?  YES  Why?  Because the 2020 class was ranked #7 in the nation.  We can atleast tell the truth when we discuss something.

This class is all on Harsin/Bobo etc.  It has nothing to do with other coaches.  They have been here a year.

If this is where your grasp of recruiting is at the moment, I think we are too far apart to even attempt to have a constructive conversation. good day to you sir.  WDE

[auburnphan 6,050]

1 hour ago, au302 said:

I just went and looked at all of our classes from 2013 onwards, and I would encourage all of you to do the same. What I took away was that we had a horrendous track record with our 5 stars. Derrick Brown probably the only one he brought in that lived up. Pappoe and Nix are solid but probably not as great as expected coming in.

 Another big takeaway is the amount of guys who either left, never played, busted, or were not starters. Some of Gus's best players were probably some of his lower rated signees (Daniel Thomas, etc). This staff needs to do a better job of evaluating, retaining, and developing guys or they won't last either. They need to pull talent in, but it doesn't matter if they leave or bust like under Gus

In this new modern era, a staff needs to hit on at least 10 guys a class.  Fill and plug around the misses, there are gonna be plenty.  Development is gonna be key, but not only the development but the ceiling of the guys that are being developed.  I think Friend has developed and gotten the most out of the offensive lineman that we have played in Hamm, Brahms and Troxell.  Hopefully some of these young guys have been busy redeveloping their bodies and weight and will be able to focus this off season on that continuance and position development in technique and assignments.  Defensive line I think we have some talent, but got some sloppy bodies to continue to develop to get the most out of their talent.  I am not sure how many of the WR's fit into what the offense is trying to do.