Been a while my thoughts

[DAG 34,939]

3 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

I'm not sure I'm following...what came out of left field(Harsin?)/Give Harsin the benefit of the doubt & inconsistencies?  Sorry, I've drank a bottle and been up since 5am so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious.

Cristobal was probably my #1, even though I still think he's an awful coach.  Talent wins out and he can recruit.

I was a fan of Napier too.

I really liked Harsin when hired.  Meh on some of his hires, but I'm not totally off yet.  If recruiting lags next year and we see similar stuff I'll be jumping off quick

The hiring of him was out of left field. I too liked the CBH and he can for sure turn it around, but we can't keep making the same mistakes. 

[W.E.D 11,071]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

The hiring of him was out of left field. I too liked the CBH and he can for sure turn it around, but we can't keep making the same mistakes. 

Yeah, agree

[AUwent 3,841]

With today's CB of Woodyard, there's still hope of a top 20 recruiting finish...do that and keep players leaving early to a minimum (must keep Tank!) and I technically have to call Harsin's first season a success. 🤣

Edited November 25, 2021 by AUwent

[e808 3,166]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

The thing that sucks is this came out of left field. Guys like @e808 warned me and I didn't listen. I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the inconsistencies are killing me. My top choices was always Freeze then Napier. Let's pray we gain momentum and we have a turn around in year two. 

All good. It was just my opinion from watching the games. He could turn this thing around and I would have to eat crow.  Hopefully he learns from this year and rights the ship. The coaching landscape will probably be very slim after all the vacancies are filled this year

[Gowebb11 9,945]

6 hours ago, W.E.D said:

It's not the comparison you're making, but I do find it weird, from our Admin perspective, Napier was laughed out of town for 6mm but we were super comfortable with a guy from Boise with zero connections to this area for 5mm a year.

Keep in mind though, last year Napier had 3 years as a HC at one school and two 10 win seasons. CBH had 7 years at two different schools with five 10 win seasons. There was probably enough differentiation at that point to go with CBH. Since then, Napier has put together another great season and his stock is even higher now. 

[DonDraper 54]

12 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

For 7 million or even 4 million I'd pass on Napier. He is a fall back guy at UF. Sure he is being pushed as the "guy" but there are several names above him. 

I damn sure thought Harsin was going to be that guy. I wanted Mario but things happened out of AU's and even Mario's control last year. Harsin came in saying the right things but this thing started to go south starting with the Merry Flipmas. From there just one blunder after another. Really disappointing so far. 

What happened with the Merry Flipmas? Did anyone ever say? Also would love to know your thoughts on how recruiting May finish this year along with 2023. 

[cbo 8,832]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

The hiring of him was out of left field. I too liked the CBH and he can for sure turn it around, but we can't keep making the same mistakes. 

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that hiring coaches in the SEC is a complete crapshoot. Outside of about 3 guys, no one knows how it will turn out. It's much more about luck than I would prefer. 

That said, I have my favorites, like everyone else. It's fun to discuss. Hard to predict. 

[DAG 34,939]

 

5 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Keep in mind though, last year Napier had 3 years as a HC at one school and two 10 win seasons. CBH had 7 years at two different schools with five 10 win seasons. There was probably enough differentiation at that point to go with CBH. Since then, Napier has put together another great season and his stock is even higher now. 

For me the pros for Napier was:

The relationships he established

The football acumen he grew up with

The coaches he learned under NS and Dabo

And he built a program up

 

I did like that CBH had several years of experience as a coach eventhough it was a non-power 5. He also learned under Peterson and his offensive mind. 

 

There are blatant cons of course with them as we know.

[DAG 34,939]

1 minute ago, cbo said:

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that hiring coaches in the SEC is a complete crapshoot. Outside of about 3 guys, no one knows how it will turn out. It's much more about luck than I would prefer. 

That said, I have my favorites, like everyone else. It's fun to discuss. Hard to predict. 

Well I am now understanding how big relationships and recruiting really is even if you are winning. That is the bottomline and that should be the priority in my eyes from the future..I always take stock in someone who can build a program. Nearly impossible to walk into someone with successful power 5 experience.

[Gowebb11 9,945]

1 hour ago, W.E.D said:

I really liked Harsin when hired.  Meh on some of his hires, but I'm not totally off yet.  If recruiting lags next year and we see similar stuff I'll be jumping off quick

Totally agree with this. Regarding recruiting, I noticed something about the Iron Bowl visitor list that gives me hope. The current commitment list of visitors from 2022 is a mix of 3 and 4 stars. Most of these were guys who jumped on board early after a short time with this staff.  The uncommitted Iron Bowl visitor lists from 2022 is loaded with high rated 4 stars. These are guys who have gotten to know our coaches a little better and are interested enough to visit.The list of visitors from the 2023 list is loaded with 5 stars. These are guys our staff has a lot more time to work on. The more time this staff is at work recruiting, the higher profile guys they are connecting with. Obviously they have to start closing for commitments, but they are making positive inroads for top talent for the future. 

[Gowebb11 9,945]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

For me the pros for Napier was:

The relationships he established

The football acumen he grew up with

The coaches he learned under NS and Dabo

And he built a program up

Agree completely. I will be surprised if he doesn’t land a bigger job this season. 

[cbo 8,832]

18 minutes ago, DAG said:

Well I am now understanding how big relationships and recruiting really is even if you are winning. That is the bottomline and that should be the priority in my eyes from the future..I always take stock in someone who can build a program. Nearly impossible to walk into someone with successful power 5 experience.

Makes sense. Recruiting is as important, if not more important, than anything else. And recruiting ability is pretty easy to predict, compared to coaching acumen. 

I've been complaining about recruiting on the recruiting forum for months. Been shot down by many every time. I haven't given up on Harsin, but I'm not sure he will survive two subpar recruiting classes. Even if the first one wasn't his fault. 

[cbo 8,832]

22 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Totally agree with this. Regarding recruiting, I noticed something about the Iron Bowl visitor list that gives me hope. The current commitment list of visitors from 2022 is a mix of 3 and 4 stars. Most of these were guys who jumped on board early after a short time with this staff.  The uncommitted Iron Bowl visitor lists from 2022 is loaded with high rated 4 stars. These are guys who have gotten to know our coaches a little better and are interested enough to visit.The list of visitors from the 2023 list is loaded with 5 stars. These are guys our staff has a lot more time to work on. The more time this staff is at work recruiting, the higher profile guys they are connecting with. Obviously they have to start closing for commitments, but they are making positive inroads for top talent for the future. 

Agree. 2023 looks much, much better. What worries me is most of those guys won't be ready to make an impact until 2024 or later. 

[e808 3,166]

1 hour ago, cbo said:

Agree. 2023 looks much, much better. What worries me is most of those guys won't be ready to make an impact until 2024 or later. 

Agreed even though I have been pretty harsh. Objectively 2024 is his make or break. If Grenier is his guy he will be in his second season 

[AUwent 3,841]

On 11/24/2021 at 8:55 AM, McLoofus said:

We did talk to him, but he named his price and he was laughed out of town before the conversation went anywhere. Is how I heard it. 

It was Bill Clark that we never actually spoke to, I believe.

I think the reason for confusion is because of what a lot of sports journalists were saying:

https://www.si.com/college/2021/11/24/latest-college-football-coaching-rumors-florida-tcu

"That distinction might be key for reasons we’ve written about before. Let’s use Louisiana’s Billy Napier as an example. Napier has been connected to multiple SEC vacancies over the past few years and is in the mix at Florida, as well. But last winter, when he was in the running for Auburn’s open coaching role, the Tigers’ dysfunction quickly turned him off. It was clear Auburn was not “aligned” after a booster coup was scuttled by a social media campaign, which then led to AD Allen Greene and president Jay Gogue leaning on a search firm to hire Brian Harsin out of left field."

Now, it's good that those in the know here have disputed this. Pay attention to how much he gets offered--it does not bode well for us if he accepts anything less than $6M.

Edited November 26, 2021 by AUwent

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

On 11/24/2021 at 7:35 PM, DAG said:

Never said he would be a good coach. I said he is an hot commodity. Unless you have SEC experience with good results how would you validate who is a good coach based on your standards? My point is before you make blanket statements at least know the guys background, but you  do you. Also, he has a 38-12 record as a head coach. See what I MEAN? I suggest you read more on some of the firsts he has also produced at that university.

I don't know if you could say he was a hot commodity. Sure he got the UF job but was passed up by plenty of teams the past few years. LSU said not thanks. He is a Jeremy Pruitt type of guy. Know even less X's and O's. He a recruiter. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

On 11/24/2021 at 2:55 PM, W.E.D said:

It's not the comparison you're making, but I do find it weird, from our Admin perspective, Napier was laughed out of town for 6mm but we were super comfortable with a guy from Boise with zero connections to this area for 5mm a year.

Laughed out of town? He started the interview saying he wanted 6 million and that was firm. AU said, thanks but no thanks. Let's don't be disingenuous here. 

[Butthead 525]

6 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Laughed out of town? He started the interview saying he wanted 6 million and that was firm. AU said, thanks but no thanks. Let's don't be disingenuous here. 

Wow, sounds like an ass.  Why would you ever start an interview talking about money, before you even decide if you like each other.  Your goal as an interviewee is to make the interviewer love and want you.  If you do that, they will generally pay for you.  

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

1 minute ago, Butthead said:

Wow, sounds like an ass.  Why would you ever start an interview talking about money, before you even decide if you like each other.  Your goal as an interviewee is to make the interviewer love and want you.  If you do that, they will generally pay for you.  

It happened. I'm sure they started with the usual pleasantries but when the tar hit the road it went that way. Pretty sure that his side was buying into the so called fact that AU's search was going sideways. Something the search never did. 

[W.E.D 11,071]

17 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Laughed out of town? He started the interview saying he wanted 6 million and that was firm. AU said, thanks but no thanks. Let's don't be disingenuous here. 

I mean, we basically said the same thing 🤷‍♂️.  He wanted 1mm more than Harsin and was told no.

It'll be really interesting to see his career in comparison to Harsins.  Especially considering we blocked Kirby and ultimately got Gus...we see how that worked out for us.

Edited November 29, 2021 by W.E.D

[DAG 34,939]

1 hour ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

I don't know if you could say he was a hot commodity. Sure he got the UF job but was passed up by plenty of teams the past few years. LSU said not thanks. He is a Jeremy Pruitt type of guy. Know even less X's and O's. He a recruiter. 

I think LSU will find themselves to regret this . 

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

3 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

I don't know if you could say he was a hot commodity. Sure he got the UF job but was passed up by plenty of teams the past few years. LSU said not thanks. He is a Jeremy Pruitt type of guy. Know even less X's and O's. He a recruiter. 

Except Pruitt had never been a college HC when Tennessee hired him. Not apples to apples. Napier's likely more of a Kirby Smart/Mario Cristobal type guy. It's how you run a program, not just being a recruiter.

Napier is much more established and knows how to run a program. His track record is much more proven than other former HC's in the SEC that were hired with very little college HC experience. Hugh Freeze was at Arky St for 1 year, then was hired at Ole Miss. Gus was at Arky St for 1 year then we hired him. 

Napier has proven at Louisiana that he has a system. It's not entirely dependent on coordinators. He lost his OC/o-line coach from last year Rob Sale who went to the NFL. In fact, Napier has 6 new assistants on his staff this year and still went 11-1.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

21 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Except Pruitt had never been a college HC when Tennessee hired him. Not apples to apples. Napier's likely more of a Kirby Smart/Mario Cristobal type guy. It's how you run a program, not just being a recruiter.

Napier is much more established and knows how to run a program. His track record is much more proven than other former HC's in the SEC that were hired with very little college HC experience. Hugh Freeze was at Arky St for 1 year, then was hired at Ole Miss. Gus was at Arky St for 1 year then we hired him. 

Napier has proven at Louisiana that he has a system. It's not entirely dependent on coordinators. He lost his OC/o-line coach from last year Rob Sale who went to the NFL. In fact, Napier has 6 new assistants on his staff this year and still went 11-1.

We will get to see. Great thing about all of this. 

[metafour 4,985]

48 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Except Pruitt had never been a college HC when Tennessee hired him. Not apples to apples. Napier's likely more of a Kirby Smart/Mario Cristobal type guy. It's how you run a program, not just being a recruiter.

Napier is much more established and knows how to run a program. His track record is much more proven than other former HC's in the SEC that were hired with very little college HC experience. Hugh Freeze was at Arky St for 1 year, then was hired at Ole Miss. Gus was at Arky St for 1 year then we hired him. 

Napier has proven at Louisiana that he has a system. It's not entirely dependent on coordinators. He lost his OC/o-line coach from last year Rob Sale who went to the NFL. In fact, Napier has 6 new assistants on his staff this year and still went 11-1.

He talks a big talk ("blah blah system, I'm Nick Saban Jr.") but I'm not sure what his actual ability level is. There's really nothing special about his offense. He should be able to recruit, but his teams have played quite a few ugly games the past few seasons. Games that they won, but with baffling decisions that produced coin-flip outcomes...against teams that they supposedly had a talent advantage over.

It should be interesting because LSU really didn't give him a second. Florida pulled the trigger quick, but they've been a mess with the last few hires. Other schools prior to Florida weren't really buying the hype.

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

17 minutes ago, metafour said:

He talks a big talk ("blah blah system, I'm Nick Saban Jr.") but I'm not sure what his actual ability level is. There's really nothing special about his offense. He should be able to recruit, but his teams have played quite a few ugly games the past few seasons. Games that they won, but with baffling decisions that produced coin-flip outcomes...against teams that they supposedly had a talent advantage over.

It should be interesting because LSU really didn't give him a second. Florida pulled the trigger quick, but they've been a mess with the last few hires. Other schools prior to Florida weren't really buying the hype.

UGA's offenses haven't blown people away since Kirby's been there. This year their defense has been at an elite level and have allowed their offense to just bludgeon teams and wear them down and pull away in games giving them lopsided wins.

Louisiana's offense has scored at least 31 ppg each year under Napier. They currently have the 13th best defense in the country giving up 18.5 ppg.

Louisiana beat Liberty 42-14 two weeks ago. That was the worst loss Liberty's had this year. Ole Miss beat Liberty 27-14 despite having a highly touted offense under Lane Kiffin.