lets discuss cooridinators

[Win4AU 4,057]

2 hours ago, aucom96 said:

 But outside of the 12 season - which was its own special problem - I don't know that Auburn has had as hapless a defense as what was on display Saturday. 

2014 and even somewhat 2013 defenses were pretty rough.  3rd and 15 were no problem for opposing offenses in 2104.  Especially USCe and TaMu.  

[Guest MustardSeed]

27 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

2014 and even somewhat 2013 defenses were pretty rough.  3rd and 15 were no problem for opposing offenses in 2104.  Especially USCe and TaMu.  

Pretty sure neither of those teams gave up 6 TD drives in a row…let alone to the team that was at the time ranked 71st in PPG…

[CR 2,448]

Masons catching a ton of heat and maybe its deserved. But Harsin has a front row seat for whats going on defensively. If hes not happy with the scheme shouldnt it be his responsibility to insist on changes being made?

[CameronCrazy 1,111]

Mason’s criticism is deserved - Bobo’s is not. I was not happy with the Bobo hire, but I was ecstatic with the Mason hire. The tables have flipped for me as the year has progressed. I hate Mason’s defensive philosophy, and I miss Kevin Steele. There is no excuse for not blitzing in that game when it was obvious that the QB was on fire and had all day to throw.

Bobo has transformed this offense with the use of tight ends and running backs out of the backfield. BUT, you can’t run any offense with a bad OL. You can’t fix that over night. We would’ve won that game easily if our OL could run block. We’d also won that game if Bo Nix wouldn’t been hurt and could’ve run the ball himself. 

I believe both coordinators deserve another year. We have to find pass rushers and we have to find better Offensive Linemen. It comes down to our play in the trenches, and we do NOT have it this year.

[Swamp Eagle 5,174]

5 hours ago, cole256 said:

I would love to have a discussion about defense with someone.....someone who doesn't get upset and angry if you don't agree with them of course

Common denominators are absolute.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,841]

I think Bobo has been a small step towards something that would be good, but it’d be ridiculous for me to expect that a guy who’s been not liked at his past two SEC stops is going to somehow improve now. It’d be better to expect that the gaffes hes had is just part of the package with him. The MSU game was maddening, they lost the PSU game (or at least lost the last scoring opportunity), and were given a layup with the Arkansas game. Great play calling, but it was literally just take what’s being given. 
If you could get someone in the same vein but better, you’d really be somewhere 

[tomcat 571]

As a fan I’ve been both impressed and disappointed. However, several players have commented their position group had a low football IQ. So it would seem these guys needed far more training and coaching to get them up to speed than should have been required. That is an indictment of the previous regime from a development perspective. The improvement in Bo Nix is a perfect example of his desire to be better and coaches that can help him get better.

Heard McElroy say this morning that the defense is simply gassed. The player rotation is minimal because the drop off with second and third team is so great that a gassed first team player is better. Tackling…especially in the secondary is atrocious. I believe coaching has not been able to overcome wild aggression and poor decisions.

I too was frustrated with a 3 man rush. Have never liked that. But, for every added rusher, there is one less man in coverage…which was already crappy.

There are many opinions about who and what should be changed. I think there is a large gap in coaching that Harsin’s group is trying to fill. There is a large drop off in ability and desire of second and third teamers. Auburn is truly a work in progress. I remain optimistic.

[TigerHorn 1,360]

Bobo has been a mostly pleasant surprise. Like most here, I was pretty excited about Mason at first. Now? Well, with Steele a no-go and Muschamp's magical ability to collapse against Georgia, what's Paul Rhodes up to these days........?

[milehighfan 1,240]

8 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

mike bobo has been brilliant in some games this year. and he has made some head scratching calls. do you think the calls are wrong or was it execution like harsin harps on? we know out o line is struggling with the run game and it appears to have hurt our chances in games. lets remember tank was supposed to be one of the best running backs in football this year. so is it fair to get rid of bobo or is it too quick to pull the trigger?

and what about coach mason? that three man front against msu is just baffling to me. they were just killing us so why not take a chance and go out swinging? i really like mason and i am not sure if his D is that hard to grasp in one season or maybe we do not have the horses we need to take that next step. and he has shown flashes of brilliance as well. when state began their run why not make the correct adjustments and make them in a timely manner? does harsin make the call of unleashing the dogs so to speak?

so what do we do and how do we do it?

Recruit better players. Correction, recruit alot better players.

[tomcat 571]

40 minutes ago, MaxCohen216 said:

Mason has to go.  "Bend Don't Break" is not an Auburn (or SEC) defense.  Makes me want to puke.  His ineptness in making adjustments on Saturday was disgusting.

I like Bobo.  He has made strides with Bo, and has called good games when the O-line played well.  Coaches rarely get credit for calling good games when the O-line is getting dominated, like ours has some games this year.

Out with Mason, in with BoBo.  IMHO.

But if Kendall Briles was poachable...

I’m interested in what you’d do instead of Mason…I’m not a fan of bend don’t break. Although, is the alternative be aggressive and breakdown into a TD? With a gassed defense and little reliable depth, what’s your strategy?

[Hopsing 593]

Would we want to look at Manny Diaz if / when he gets let go?

[woodford 3,688]

2 hours ago, tomcat said:

As a fan I’ve been both impressed and disappointed. However, several players have commented their position group had a low football IQ. So it would seem these guys needed far more training and coaching to get them up to speed than should have been required. That is an indictment of the previous regime from a development perspective. The improvement in Bo Nix is a perfect example of his desire to be better and coaches that can help him get better.

Heard McElroy say this morning that the defense is simply gassed. The player rotation is minimal because the drop off with second and third team is so great that a gassed first team player is better. Tackling…especially in the secondary is atrocious. I believe coaching has not been able to overcome wild aggression and poor decisions.

I too was frustrated with a 3 man rush. Have never liked that. But, for every added rusher, there is one less man in coverage…which was already crappy.

There are many opinions about who and what should be changed. I think there is a large gap in coaching that Harsin’s group is trying to fill. There is a large drop off in ability and desire of second and third teamers. Auburn is truly a work in progress. I remain optimistic.

I'll take that risk. You cannot give QB's in that type of offense this day and age all day to throw. You have no shot at stopping them especially with a Mike Leach. Make all the jokes you want about him but he is an offensive guru and completely pants'd Derek Mason on Saturday. 

It's starting to really sink in how awful this loss was. So embarrassing. Can't believe I had faith in the Vandy coach coming here lol please prove me wrong going forward.

[JTFazz 386]

[Sani-Freeze 552]

1 hour ago, tomcat said:

I’m interested in what you’d do instead of Mason…I’m not a fan of bend don’t break. Although, is the alternative be aggressive and breakdown into a TD? With a gassed defense and little reliable depth, what’s your strategy?

It's now a bend-AND-break defense until further notice. 

[AUreo 759]

Somehow Ole Miss / second half was the tipping point. It’s all downhill from there…

[ArgoEagle 1,895]

I am ok with Bobo. I love how we have thrown to the TE and RB's this year. He has made some bone-headed play calls (4th down call at PSU).  2 point play call this past Saturday. Otherwise ok.

Mason though.  Any coach that sits and watches his defense get destroyed and is too stubborn or inept to make adjustments just needs to hear 2 words:. You're Fired!!!!!

[Didba 5,303]

Please all you saying let's fire Mason, tell me something he could have done better in the second half?

Please don't say blitz the QB bc that simply would not have worked against Rogers. 

 

2 second drop with an accurate QB who is able to identify blitzes pre-snap and then throw into the blitz into green grass vacated by the Blitzer.  Plus, when you bring the blitz you give up the deep ball bc now you have only dropped 7 with one guy deep instead of two.  Further, on a 2 second drop the blitz isn't even gonna get close to the QB.  Mason ran the same offense against Roger that Steele ran against LSU/Burrow.  Steele had a better dline depth so he had guys still getting pressure with 3 late.  The 3-4 drop 8 works against the air raid

In the second half, Rogers wasn't getting pressured since our dline was worn out so there were not many two step drops.  However, if we had brought pressure in the second half I guarantee you they would've burned us on a deep ball or a big play across the middle.

Its a great game-plan against air raid offenses. Force the short throws and hope they cannot do it all the way down the field and that your offense can keep their offense off the field by sustaining drives.  Hard to do that with a QB playing with a broken ankle.  Mike Leach's offense is designed to drop crazy points very fast, best way to beat them is to make them throw short tight windows.  We were able to do that until our dline got gassed for being on the field for the entire 3rd quarter.

Also, I don't know if switching to man would have done any different but I do know A&M played alot of man defense against moo state and they got torched doing it.  My understanding of man to man vs the air raid is not as in depth so I won't attest to that. 

[Didba 5,303]

23 hours ago, woodford said:

I'll take that risk. You cannot give QB's in that type of offense this day and age all day to throw. You have no shot at stopping them especially with a Mike Leach. Make all the jokes you want about him but he is an offensive guru and completely pants'd Derek Mason on Saturday. 

It's starting to really sink in how awful this loss was. So embarrassing. Can't believe I had faith in the Vandy coach coming here lol please prove me wrong going forward.

Its unlikely blitzing Rogers would have had any better results.  The ball would have been out of his hands before the blitz even got close and likely results in a big play from where the blitzer vacated.  The 3-4 drop 8 is a pretty good defensive scheme for an air raid team.  We utilized it to great success against Burrow at LSU. The biggest difference today was lack of dline depth and the offense was abysmal after Nix broke his ankle.  I would have liked to see Finley as soon as it became apparent Bo couldn't throw off of his plant foot.  It was evident that Nix couldn't plant his back foot and throw the ball.  His balls started sailing high.

[PUB78 1,372]

On 11/15/2021 at 12:58 PM, fishepa said:

I give everyone  a pass this year.  They deserve at least that.

Even a pass for blowing a 25 point lead on your home field?

[Didba 5,303]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:59 PM, CameronCrazy said:

Mason’s criticism is deserved - Bobo’s is not. I was not happy with the Bobo hire, but I was ecstatic with the Mason hire. The tables have flipped for me as the year has progressed. I hate Mason’s defensive philosophy, and I miss Kevin Steele. There is no excuse for not blitzing in that game when it was obvious that the QB was on fire and had all day to throw.

Bobo has transformed this offense with the use of tight ends and running backs out of the backfield. BUT, you can’t run any offense with a bad OL. You can’t fix that over night. We would’ve won that game easily if our OL could run block. We’d also won that game if Bo Nix wouldn’t been hurt and could’ve run the ball himself. 

I believe both coordinators deserve another year. We have to find pass rushers and we have to find better Offensive Linemen. It comes down to our play in the trenches, and we do NOT have it this year.

Blitzing would have done nothing.  Myers would have just audibled a quick pass on a 2 second drop as soon as he smells out the blitz and they hit a pass where the blitzer vacates.   The way you beat an air raid offense is to keep them off the field with long sustained drives , score a whole lot of points because its gonna be a boat race, and to utilize dropping 8 men back to force them to throw quick passes all the way down the field ala Steele vs Burrow.  Our depth on defense failed us in the third when the offense was stagnant. By the fourth, our guys were exhausted.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Didba

[TigerPAC 993]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

Please all you saying let's fire Mason, tell me something he could have done better in the second half?

Please don't say blitz the QB bc that simply would not have worked against Rogers. 

 

2 second drop with an accurate QB who is able to identify blitzes pre-snap and then throw into the blitz into green grass vacated by the Blitzer.  Plus, when you bring the blitz you give up the deep ball bc now you have only dropped 7 with one guy deep instead of two.  Further, on a 2 second drop the blitz isn't even gonna get close to the QB.  Mason ran the same offense against Roger that Steele ran against LSU/Burrow.  Steele had a better dline depth so he had guys still getting pressure with 3 late.  The 3-4 drop 8 works against the air raid

In the second half, Rogers wasn't getting pressured since our dline was worn out so there were not many two step drops.  However, if we had brought pressure in the second half I guarantee you they would've burned us on a deep ball or a big play across the middle.

Its a great game-plan against air raid offenses. Force the short throws and hope they cannot do it all the way down the field and that your offense can keep their offense off the field by sustaining drives.  Hard to do that with a QB playing with a broken ankle.  Mike Leach's offense is designed to drop crazy points very fast, best way to beat them is to make them throw short tight windows.  We were able to do that until our dline got gassed for being on the field for the entire 3rd quarter.

Also, I don't know if switching to man would have done any different but I do know A&M played alot of man defense against moo state and they got torched doing it.  My understanding of man to man vs the air raid is not as in depth so I won't attest to that. 

Just for fun, not asking for back and forth banter by any means....but miss st has lost 4 games this year.  So some defenses have them figured out—at least enough to win. I’d just like to know what was our approach and hope in this game?   Because it looked arguably ridiculous.  

[Hank2020 3,233]

19 minutes ago, TigerPAC said:

Just for fun, not asking for back and forth banter by any means....but miss st has lost 4 games this year.  So some defenses have them figured out—at least enough to win. I’d just like to know what was our approach and hope in this game?   Because it looked arguably ridiculous.  

Their QB did not play as well in those games either.

[Didba 5,303]

On 11/16/2021 at 10:24 PM, TigerPAC said:

Just for fun, not asking for back and forth banter by any means....but miss st has lost 4 games this year.  So some defenses have them figured out—at least enough to win. I’d just like to know what was our approach and hope in this game?   Because it looked arguably ridiculous.  

Well I have not watched many of their games this season besides the Aggie game but here ya go based off my look at the stats and some quick glances at replays for the games.

Only Bama figured Moo State's offense out, 3 of their losses were not based upon the defenses figuring out the offenses. Only Bama held them below 400 yards at 300 yards.

Memphis did not figure them out - 468 yards, 419 passing 3 TDs passing. 

LSU did not figure them either, but did manage to keep them out of the endzone a bit more - 486 total, 371 Passing 3 Passing TDs, but 1 pick 1 lost fumble.  So LSU didn't stop them but won the turnover battle.

Alabama just played man defense, sent pressure and straight out athleted Moo State's receivers, that's what some Moo state film guys told me anyways.  So, Bama did figure them out but we cannot do what Bama does.  Don't have the talent to play man against a Leach offense. 

Arkansas did not figure them out either. 486 total yards, 417 passing, 4 TDs but 1 pick.  So Arkansas won the turnover battle there as well.

Also its my understanding that those three games, his WRs were dropping the ball a bit. Might pull those stats if I get bored enough.

Generally, to beat Leach you must score lots points unless you can play ball control and get takeaway by their offense making a mistake or just be Bama and have a 5 star at every position.  Also I want to point out Mason's plan worked for a whole half.  I'd have to go look but I wouldn't be surprised if we held Moo state to one of their lower first half productions. We even dropped a surefire pick 6 in the first quarter!  That would have been massive. That is our takeaway that the other teams needed to help them win.

 

  @ArgoEagle @tigers23  I'd love to hear y'alls breakdown of the defensive scheme you'd think would have led to a better outcome.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Didba
calling people out

[Didba 5,303]

21 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

Their QB did not play as well in those games either.

Pretty much this and his WRs were dropping the ball a bit more.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Didba

[AcUmen 242]

Quote

do you think the calls are wrong or was it execution like harsin harps on?

Execution.  I have no reason to doubt Harsin's evaluation on that.  He sees practice and he sees the games.

Harsin doesn't strike me as a "BBQ gang" type of guy.  I have zero doubts he will cut people loose if they don't perform.  Listen to what Drinkwitz said about him when he was with him at Arkie State.