A more reasoned perspective.......

[gravejd 3,309]

I don't think you can rationalize or excuse the biggest collapse in AU history. The Harsin honeymoon phase is definitely over. Losing to Penn State on the road no big deal. Losing to A&M on the road happens. Losing to uga who is best team in the country was to be expected. Hell even losing to Miss ST at home is not the end of the world. But the way we completely melted down on Saturday was a complete failure by everyone on the team and that includes the coaches. They showed that when things start going wrong they are clueless on how to stop the bleeding. That game was over about midway through the 3rd qtr. Harsin and his staff will have a chance to prove they are better than this but that loss definitely makes me question his abilities as a coach. 

We'll see what he is made of now thats for sure. Loss these next 2 and good luck ever digging yourself out of that hole as a program. It'll be next man up in about 2 more seasons. 

[Butthead 525]

It perplexes me that some of you are surprised at this point in the season.  Auburn is just not that talented.  And when you lack talent, you might win a few games you shouldn't (Ole Miss), but you are also going to lose a few that you probably shouldn't (MissState).  Many got overconfident when we played PedoState reasonably close in HV -- have you watched them play since?  They aren't that good either.  But for the Turds and Thugs, every team in the league has some major flaws.  Our lines (both offensive and defensive) suck and are in the bottom half of the league.  We have very few playmakers on offense, and one of those (Tank) has been injured most of the season.  Plus there are not many college running backs that are going to do much of anything with a trash O'line and a stacked box.  Our WR's are very average overall -- what maybe one of them with NFL potential?  I am not happy with the results either, but as I like to tell my kids, for now, it is what it is.  WDE.

[aubaseball 2,876]

50 minutes ago, Auctoritas said:

That's a root cause, but the proximal cause is the total lack of adjustment to fix it. Derek Mason tried nothing, and then was all out of ideas.

Saw a great analysis at Auburn Observer (which I have plugged before, its the best 6 bucks a month you'll spend):

"The Air Raid is designed to neutralize a pass rush. When an offense tries to get the ball out of the quarterback’s hands quickly, it’s tough for the defense to crank up the pressure — unless the coverage is air-tight. That creates a challenge for a defensive coordinator. If the ball is almost always going to be in the air, how many defenders do you need back in coverage? How many pass rushers can you send and still be able to cover everything?

Including plays that were wiped out due to defensive penalties by Auburn, Mississippi State had 59 true passing plays Saturday. On 33 of them (55.9%), Auburn only sent three rushers to the quarterback. On the other 26 (44.1%), it sent four rushers.

More often than not, Auburn’s wasn’t winning with just three going after Rogers. He attempted 29 passes against Auburn with a three-man rush and completed all but two of them for 305 yards and a touchdown. That’s an average of 10.52 per attempt. That means Auburn wasn’t getting any of the benefits of dropping eight in coverage. Rogers was extremely accurate and efficient, as he had plenty of time to find the open man and keep the ball moving.

With four pass rushers, Auburn had a slightly higher rate of pressures — the Tigers came up with two sacks, including the one in which T.D. Moultry was called for targeting, and linebacker Zakoby McClain swatted down a pass attempt on a blitz. Against four-man rushes, Rogers was 13/22 for 93 yards, which is an average of just 4.23 yards per attempt. Now, those numbers scream the obvious — why in the world did Auburn just send three rushers on more than half of its plays if rushing four worked?

But there’s some important context to be added here. Yes, Rogers only averaged 4.23 yards per attempt against four-man rushes. However, it’s important to note that five of his six touchdowns came against those rushes. Rogers’ touchdowns were all short, and Auburn brought that fourth man almost all the time with the short field of the red zone behind it. Inside the Auburn red zone, Rogers was 7/8 passing against the four-man rush for five touchdowns and an additional first down. (He was sacked once and pressured on another dropback.)

Now let’s take a look at what happened when Auburn sent four-man rushes on plays outside of its own red zone. On those plays, Rogers was just 7/14 passing for 62 yards — an average of 4.43 yards per attempt — and was pressured four times, including once for a sack. (Auburn also was called for defensive pass interference on two non-red zone plays in which it sent four rushers.)

Auburn could have been better with its chances to get after Rogers on the passes in which he wasn’t immediately dumping the ball off to a receiver.

Still, the Tigers could have afforded to commit a fourth man to the pass rush more often when they were between the 20s, especially considering their issues in coverage. Again, it’s not like Mississippi State wanted to rely on a vertical passing game."

If an Auburn beat writer can see it, if all of us at home on our couches could see it...why can't the guy making millions see it? And by that, I mean CDM to a large degree, but also our offensive-minded head coach, who should have been able to step in and say "Hey, DC, if you haven't noticed, this is what they're trying to do, maybe you should compensate." Unfortunately, it was straight up as vanilla playcalling as you can get without coaching peewee, and when it stopped working the players panicked and started trying to play hero-ball and started missing tackles and getting out of position. That is absolutely a discipline issue - do YOUR job - but it also is a coaching issue because CDM was putting those kids in a terrible mental position where they felt like they clearly weren't getting the support they needed to do their job correctly.

Often, we overreact and kneejerk. In this case, it's warranted.

I watched some the touchdown highlights again and this is just not true. I counted 3 rushers on at least four of the touchdowns.   
the problem I saw was #10 and #21 were completely lost on most of the touchdowns.    #10 gave up 2 that I recall and was 3 to 4 yards from his man 

[e808 3,222]

15 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think multiple MSU offensive linemen would play for us.

I respect that. However the air raid is a scheme that off sets when a team has deficiencies. All u need is a gunslinger qb with decent accuracy. Instead of running they will just dink and donk u all the way down the field unless u force the issue. Most teams don’t have secondary’s field with elite players. Once they identified Simpson it started to be a long afternoon for the young man. I am just not sold on their online. It’s the scheme and the fact we rushed 3 vs their 5 why they looked so good

[shabby 2,081]

It seems the first half game plan is the same as the 2nd half game plan on both sides of the ball. When that stops working or never began to work, the staff doesn't make any adjustments. An overstatement? yes but fairly accurate I think. A refusal to adjust the game plan during the 2nd half on both sides of the ball was an inept response and it doesn't appear to occur in isolation

[gravejd 3,309]

13 minutes ago, Butthead said:

It perplexes me that some of you are surprised at this point in the season.  Auburn is just not that talented.  And when you lack talent, you might win a few games you shouldn't (Ole Miss), but you are also going to lose a few that you probably shouldn't (MissState).  Many got overconfident when we played PedoState reasonably close in HV -- have you watched them play since?  They aren't that good either.  But for the Turds and Thugs, every team in the league has some major flaws.  Our lines (both offensive and defensive) suck and are in the bottom half of the league.  We have very few playmakers on offense, and one of those (Tank) has been injured most of the season.  Plus there are not many college running backs that are going to do much of anything with a trash O'line and a stacked box.  Our WR's are very average overall -- what maybe one of them with NFL potential?  I am not happy with the results either, but as I like to tell my kids, for now, it is what it is.  WDE.

I don't think you can blame Saturday on the talent level. Same players in the first and second half. One team was motivated to play and their coaches made adjustments. Our players/coaches quit at the end of the second quarter and should have stayed in the locker room for the second half. I agree that AU is lacking in talent and had you told me AU would lose to State at the start of the season i would not have been surprised. But what happened Saturday was lack of desire and commitment and that comes from the coaching staff. This was on par with Gus blowing it at LSU a few years back. He recovered that season but i think it was a glaring sign he was not the correct coach for AU. Time will tell if this tells the same story about Harsin. 

[aubaseball 2,876]

Have given this some thought and find it somewhat crazy that grown men are judged and paid by the outcome of 18-22 year old young men.   The inconsistency on how these  young men perform on any given Saturday is crazy. 

I understand that it’s the coaches job to get the player to play on a consistent and winning level, but when the players level of ability is average at best, it’s impossible to get them to play consistent.   
 

Am I disappointed in Saturday’s results? Absolutely, but I’m not surprised.   Auburn is Jekyll and Hyde this year.   Auburn can’t even get two half’s to be consistent, much less an entire game.   Not to pick on any single player, because I could go down the roster and pick the inconsistencies of just about everyone.   Hudson had perhaps his best game ever, but the week before he was lost.   
 

I say all of this to say that, The MSU loss was on everyone (coaches, players, fans and over weight cheerleader).   But for me, it’s about the jimmy and Joe’s, not the X’s and O’s

[keesler 5,975]

59 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

I say all of this to say that, The MSU loss was on everyone (coaches, players, fans and over weight cheerleader).   But for me, it’s about the jimmy and Joe’s, not the X’s and O’s

When you're deficient on the Jimmies & Joe's, you better have a staff on hand that's willing and able to scheme the X's & O's.  It appears there are inconsistencies all over the place.  

[ad9182 14]

I remember in The U 30 For 30 there was a game where Miami went up huge on someone and ended up with a similar collapse. Jimmy Johnson (I'm pretty sure he was the coach for that game) said that he learned from that and would never let that happen again.

Also there's the story of one of the greatest college football coaches losing to.... Louisiana Monroe in his first season.

I'm not saying Harsin is or will be one of the greatest coaches all time, but if this has happened to others who are elite coaches, is it possible that maybe the sky isn't falling??

[Gowebb11 10,008]

It was a debacle and now it’s in the past. But if we’re honest, how many of us did absolutely asenine things and made ridiculous mistakes on a new job. I did it in the Army and have done it in corporate.  The list of major missteps by new coaching staffs is long and includes some pretty famous names. Big opportunity ahead. Can the same staff that failed Saturday get the team off the mat and have them prepared to win an SEC road game with a backup QB.  That’s the controllable. Last week is done. 

[1716AU 800]

1 hour ago, aubaseball said:

Auburn is Jekyll and Hyde this year.   Auburn can’t even get two half’s to be consistent, much less an entire game.   Not to pick on any single player, because I could go down the roster and pick the inconsistencies of just about everyone.   Hudson had perhaps his best game ever, but the week before he was lost.

Finally!  You get it.

Harsin has commented numerous times on inconsistency and players not being dialed in in the film room

This program has been Malzahan'd

[selias 2,398]

4 hours ago, 80Tiger said:

I am not really seeing the positives from this year. Once you pull the cupcakes out of our schedule and compare to last years all SEC schedule, we are scoring less per game, giving up more points per game, gaining about the same amount of yards per game and giving up the same amount of yards per game. It is not about impatience or unhappiness, it is about results.

The last guy was fired for a reason. Y'all act like a coach or staff can come in, wave a magic wand, and everything will suddenly be better. Yeah, there was a bad week and a terrible half but good grief, put down the pitchforks and go have a bourbon or something

[wde21 344]

Several posters early on said the record was not important but if there was improvement as the season went on and it was important how we lost games. Well it cannot be overstated how bad the loss was on Saturday. It is one thing to lose to a superior team- another thing entirely to lose to Ms State in that way at home. I lay this loss solely on the coaches- from the failure to adjust defensively the second half, the stupid fake punt, the stupid 2 point conversion( we should have made it a one score game and kicked it deep and tried to get a stop-coaching 101) which led to the stupid onside kick where we lost our kicker. It is just very alarming to me that the coaching staff made all of these decisions in one half of football. I lived through the Barfield years and hope we are not headed in that direction but I have my doubts. But as long as Harsin is the coach I will support him and the team and will be there for the Iron Bowl cheering them on.

[AUght2win 7,122]

3 hours ago, Butthead said:

It perplexes me that some of you are surprised at this point in the season.  Auburn is just not that talented.

We were talented enough to lead 28-3 and make our opponent look like a group of 5 team for 28 minutes. How's that work? Did we come out with a different roster in the 2nd half? 

[AUght2win 7,122]

1 hour ago, Gowebb11 said:

It was a debacle and now it’s in the past. But if we’re honest, how many of us did absolutely asenine things and made ridiculous mistakes on a new job. 

This isn't a new job for Harsin, Mason, or Bobo. They are all very experienced coaches. 

[selias 2,398]

26 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

We were talented enough to lead 28-3 and make our opponent look like a group of 5 team for 28 minutes. How's that work? Did we come out with a different roster in the 2nd half? 

Typically, the 2nd half shows (or exposes) the talent depth of a roster. Auburn just isn't that good right now. I reference my post above, the previous guy was told to walk for a reason. There's no magic wand the staff can wave to make it any better.

[creed 1,809]

2 hours ago, keesler said:

When you're deficient on the Jimmies & Joe's, you better have a staff on hand that's willing and able to scheme the X's & O's.  It appears there are inconsistencies all over the place.  

So scheme like hell, which by the way the coaching staff has been doing, with unmotivated players in this particular game gets you what exactly?

[selias 2,398]

I remember a thread awhile back where an OL basically said they were being taught Football 101 and it was new to them. That should've been cause for concern and notice that we were in for some tough sledding. Instead, everyone is apparently shocked at the results of the season thus far.

[tbone4jc 2,456]

5 hours ago, e808 said:

Besides Pickering what other Mississippi State players would play at Auburn. It’s pretty easy for an oline to block when it 3 versus 5. There is no excuse Auburn was up 25 points. Auburn was a ranked team playing a non ranked team at home. So u must think Mississippi State has more talent than Auburn. Just because it’s year one a debacle like that is acceptable along with some questionable decision making. 

Sure,  okay. You are right. You are a complete genius. Your professional assessment is spot on.

[tbone4jc 2,456]

2 hours ago, wde21 said:

Several posters early on said the record was not important but if there was improvement as the season went on and it was important how we lost games. Well it cannot be overstated how bad the loss was on Saturday. It is one thing to lose to a superior team- another thing entirely to lose to Ms State in that way at home. I lay this loss solely on the coaches- from the failure to adjust defensively the second half, the stupid fake punt, the stupid 2 point conversion( we should have made it a one score game and kicked it deep and tried to get a stop-coaching 101) which led to the stupid onside kick where we lost our kicker. It is just very alarming to me that the coaching staff made all of these decisions in one half of football. I lived through the Barfield years and hope we are not headed in that direction but I have my doubts. But as long as Harsin is the coach I will support him and the team and will be there for the Iron Bowl cheering them on.

To typecast the improvement or lack thereof on 1 1/2 games instead of the whole season is completely baffling to me.  Yes it was a very bad game. But the wins in Death Valley, Against Arkansas and Ole Miss were very good wins this season.  This is season 1 in a rebuild, restructuring of an entire culture. It's almost as if you all feel entitled but in the real world it takes time. If you don't see the improvement from the beginning to now you just choose not to and that's on you.

[e808 3,222]

39 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

To typecast the improvement or lack thereof on 1 1/2 games instead of the whole season is completely baffling to me.  Yes it was a very bad game. But the wins in Death Valley, Against Arkansas and Ole Miss were very good wins this season.  This is season 1 in a rebuild, restructuring of an entire culture. It's almost as if you all feel entitled but in the real world it takes time. If you don't see the improvement from the beginning to now you just choose not to and that's on you.

Obviously your definition of a rebuild and mines is different. I didn’t know Auburn was starting from the bottom. Yes there are some deficiencies but a rebuild far from it. There have been some improvement and there have been so mishaps. Saturday had several of them. 
When u get picked to do a job your performance is always been monitored whether u make millions or an average joe.  Just because it year one doesn’t excuse a level of expectation. Coach Harsin didn’t start coaching yesterday 

[DAG 35,153]

6 hours ago, gravejd said:

I don't think you can rationalize or excuse the biggest collapse in AU history. The Harsin honeymoon phase is definitely over. Losing to Penn State on the road no big deal. Losing to A&M on the road happens. Losing to uga who is best team in the country was to be expected. Hell even losing to Miss ST at home is not the end of the world. But the way we completely melted down on Saturday was a complete failure by everyone on the team and that includes the coaches. They showed that when things start going wrong they are clueless on how to stop the bleeding. That game was over about midway through the 3rd qtr. Harsin and his staff will have a chance to prove they are better than this but that loss definitely makes me question his abilities as a coach. 

We'll see what he is made of now thats for sure. Loss these next 2 and good luck ever digging yourself out of that hole as a program. It'll be next man up in about 2 more seasons. 

Pretty much my thoughts. Redemption is only in the sense of winning the next two games, otherwise a 7 win season is quite disappointing to me. I am not giving up on him, but my confidence is meh right now. Quite frankly, finding a legit ball coach is a shot at the dark. Look at Texas? Look at Nebraska? Look at UF? It is so hard to find a quality coach now a days and many are making bank just being good (See Jimbo Fisher). It is really frustrating. My want has and will always be Hugh freeze but even that is a reach. Let's pray CBH rights the ship.

Edited November 16, 2021 by DAG

[Gowebb11 10,008]

6 hours ago, gravejd said:

But what happened Saturday was lack of desire and commitment and that comes from the coaching staff.

Lack of commitment and desire is reflective of a culture. And these players have been in a culture for several years where good is good enough and it’s ok to do little things sometimes instead of all the time. Harsin and his staff had plenty of failures Saturday. But he told everyone at media days in August he still had a fair amount of guys not buying in. He was very specific about some guys thinking it was okay to show up late or miss a workout. That has to be flushed from our team and it doesn’t happen in a few games.  I’m embarrassed and angry about Saturday too but these coaches have to have time to set their culture with their players. If it’s still happening in a year off two I’ll join in the call for heads to roll. 

[Gowebb11 10,008]

3 hours ago, AUght2win said:

This isn't a new job for Harsin, Mason, or Bobo. They are all very experienced coaches. 

Yes, with a new roster in a new conference installing new schemes and working together for the first time. Go look up the articles from the off-season and media days where he talked about guys showing up late to workouts or not showing at all, and thinking it was ok. Much improvement is needed in our program, but whether we like it or not it will take time. Stepped back big last week. Need to step up the next two weeks. 

[AUght2win 7,122]

6 hours ago, selias said:

Typically, the 2nd half shows (or exposes) the talent depth of a roster. Auburn just isn't that good right now. I reference my post above, the previous guy was told to walk for a reason. There's no magic wand the staff can wave to make it any better.

Let me emphatically state, in no uncertain terms, that the staff has absolutely no roster related excuses for blowing a 28-3 lead to MISSISSIPPI STATE. Try again. It's beyond illogical. Maybe if we were spotted 28-3 against the 2019 Chiefs, we could excuse away 40 unanswered points. 

This. Is. Not. Due. To. The. Roster. Makes absolutely no sense to use this talking point within the context of a collapse against the likes of Mississippi State.