Were Auburn fans spoiled?

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

7 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

Were Auburn fans spoiled by Kevin Steele's defense?

Lance Dawe

2-3 minutes

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Auburn’s defense has been somewhat of a “bend don’t break” kind of unit.

The team has occasionally felt like it has bled yardage against its competition, even though Auburn is (usually) holding teams out of the endzone.

Are Auburn fans spoiled after having one of the best defenses in the nation during the Kevin Steele era?

Justin Ferguson of the ‘Auburn Observer‘ joined Zac Blackerby and the “Locked on Auburn Podcast” to talk about why this Auburn team is different and how fans should meter their expectations in year one of the Bryan Harsin era.

I think there is so much that’s unknown with this team… I just think (the Harsin era) is going to be different. Auburn fans for years never had a defense that they liked, and then they got a stretch with Kevin Steele where they were playing dominant defense. I think this year’s denfese has talent, and Derek Mason has done a good job making adjustments in game and closing well in the second half.

But this is a very different type of defense, and sometimes it may look like ‘oh, they don’t have any answers. They can’t stop Treylon Burks.’ The start at LSU was the same way, so you’re riding that momentum wave because things look different.

I think you look at the way this team is playing, with it being year one, as they are learning about things, they’re going to be riding the wave a little bit. I think fans will get more used to it as time goes on. However, I think the schedule combined with the fact that we are still learning how this team wants to run what they want to run will cause moments where the fans are like ‘oh, this is realy unexpected,’ but you can’t judge this team and make the same assumptions that you did in the Malzahn era… and I think it’s hard to break those habits.

Contact/Follow us @theauburnwire on Twitter, and like our page on Facebook to follow ongoing coverage of Auburn news, notes, and opinion. 

To tell you the truth to often the AU DCs are not autonomous. Antihero words they are hampered by the HC. No doubts Steele is a great DC as is Mason but they are also shadowed by their HC. As much as I dislike what I’ve seen in Defense this season so far it may well be Harsin’s decision to play a little softer with our DBs because of injuries and newness of our front 7. But both were good before they got to AU so that’s all I’m saying.   

[e808 3,028]

48 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Ok. Just went and looked. I took out last year due to the different and tougher schedule (even though it was better than this year still….)

Years 2017, 18 and 19 we averaged giving up 20 points a game and had an average national ranking of 16th with the lowest being 23rd. 
We are currently 45th in PPG giving up an average of 23. 

In yards per game those years we averaged 29th in the country (with the lowest being 42nd) and gave up on average 351 ypg. 
We are currently 52nd in the country and giving up 378 ypg 

All this with some offenses ahead that will likely make our numbers worse for the season total than they are now. 

So which stats is it that don’t lie?  I guess I’m confused.  The stats show we have regressed in both major categories and are likely to get worse stat-wise by the end of the year 🤷‍♂️

I am confused as well because Mason was co-dc one year and the DC one year before heading to Vanderbilt. How many years of work is necessary before he can be labeled a good DC

[Guest MustardSeed]

8 minutes ago, e808 said:

I am confused as well because Mason was co-dc one year and the DC one year before heading to Vanderbilt. How many years of work is necessary before he can be labeled a good DC

Well, if we are referring back to 8 years ago, we should probably hire this Gus Malzahn guy. 1 year as a HC in a major conference and almost won a natty!  The guy may be an offensive genius!  Sign him up! 🙃

[Guest MustardSeed]

52 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

To tell you the truth to often the AU DCs are not autonomous. Antihero words they are hampered by the HC. No doubts Steele is a great DC as is Mason but they are also shadowed by their HC. As much as I dislike what I’ve seen in Defense this season so far it may well be Harsin’s decision to play a little softer with our DBs because of injuries and newness of our front 7. But both were good before they got to AU so that’s all I’m saying.   

How long ago did Mason have a good D?  It’s been many years. His defenses at Vandy were putrid (and that’s being kind). 
You may be right about Harsin being a player here, but he seems to be a guy that lets his coaches do their job. He did so with the WR coach and when he didn’t live up he was fired.  I believe he may step in if Mason doesn’t get us straightened out. The way it seems he’s running things I wouldn’t be surprised if Mason is replaced after this year but would support him getting another year too. 

[AUGunsmith 666]

8 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

one thing is i really trust coach harsin and if it is not getting done he will make some changes. i do believe this D is different from what he has run according to one of the asssitant coaches said in another article i posted. it is supposed to be something a lot of d guys are moving to because of the spread stuff. it was stated something about this d is big out west but sec coaches are looking more into this style because it worked better on spreads offenses. but that bend but do not break stuff makes me nervous.

Because they have great Ds out west

[auburnphan 6,050]

I am still on the fence with Mason.  I love the in game adjustments, but we need better game planning.  One huge value we never really discuss with Mason is the value of knowledge he is able to give to Harsin as a former SEC head coach.  
 

I really like what I see out of Coach Eason and I hope he stays around for a while.  

[tomcat 571]

I suspect that very few of us are qualified to coach on this level. However, it seems everyone is qualified to critique those who are…. Guess that would be a FAN!

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,841]

I honestly think just running back the old staff with Mason as the passing D coordinator, would be the best combination of things. We’ve looked…not consistent at man, but Mason at least has situational awareness and practices for the soft zone not working. It felt like Steele didn’t 

Steele really needed edge rushers though, and never got them. I guess if you had to break it down, Steele could manage the interior 2 (or 1), the LBs, and the CBs and Mason could develop the other spots 🤣

[Guest MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, auburnphan said:

One huge value we never really discuss with Mason is the value of knowledge he is able to give to Harsin as a former SEC head coach.  

Goodness I sure hope he isn’t listening to that advise. Masons team his last 5 years spent more time ranked outside the top 100 in offense and defense than inside the top 100.  Look at how horrendous Vandy is this year. That’s the team he left them. He absolutely destroyed any semblance of the team Franklin had competing when he took over. I mean DESTROYED. Went 0-9 last year in the same division with 2 other teams that fired their HCs 🤢 Lord I hope and pray Harsin isn’t taking HC advise from him.  Probably the WORST thing Mason has going for him is his HC experience. He signed on to be our DC because there was ZERO chance any school would have ever paid him half of what we paid him to be their HC.  

[tbone4jc 2,247]

10 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Ok. Just went and looked. I took out last year due to the different and tougher schedule (even though it was better than this year still….)

Years 2017, 18 and 19 we averaged giving up 20 points a game and had an average national ranking of 16th with the lowest being 23rd. 
We are currently 45th in PPG giving up an average of 23. 

In yards per game those years we averaged 29th in the country (with the lowest being 42nd) and gave up on average 351 ypg. 
We are currently 52nd in the country and giving up 378 ypg 

All this with some offenses ahead that will likely make our numbers worse for the season total than they are now. 

So which stats is it that don’t lie?  I guess I’m confused.  The stats show we have regressed in both major categories and are likely to get worse stat-wise by the end of the year 🤷‍♂️

You completely missed the ball. The talent level now is nowhere close to what CKS was left with. 

  The volume of transfer players we went after at every position on defense but LB should inform you just how depleted this defense is. 

Also, last season happened so those stats are legit and are comparable especially to make the point of talent levels and lake thereof.

[tbone4jc 2,247]

12 hours ago, e808 said:

Auburn didn’t play any cream puffs last year like this year. Maybe I am missing the point. Also we have yet to see what the defense does against Tamu, Ole Miss, Miss State and Bama. Maybe revisit after those games

So. Carolina scored 30 points on us last season. Gave up 25 ppg.

Why do you think we went almost exclusively after d linemen and d backs from the transfer portals? That alone speaks volumes...but whatever.

[e808 3,028]

10 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

So. Carolina scored 30 points on us last season. Gave up 25 ppg.

Why do you think we went almost exclusively after d linemen and d backs from the transfer portals? That alone speaks volumes...but whatever.

So u think South Carolina is worse than Akron and ASU. Those points mostly came off turnovers. For some reason Bo kept throwing to Jaycee Horn side. U can’t expect the defense to hold when the other teams offense already have the ball in your territory. Cmon I know u watched the game and saw how putrid and inept the offense was with the turnovers. Luckily there hasn’t been many this year but when they occurred the other team scored. 
Lastly let’s visit this convo  after the Ole Miss game Corral 154/1/2 picks and scored 28 at Ole Miss. There was no DB or MD.

[aucanucktiger 1,810]

A quick Google of this writer (Lance Dawe?!?) shows he's a "football enthusiast" who's probably not shaving yet.

No, Lance, we were spoiled by virtually every Auburn defense (except 2012) that preceded Covid (your historical reference point,  no doubt).

[Gowebb11 9,522]

Per ESPN stats PPG SEC rank, which to me is the most important defensive statistic:

Mason this year    4th

Steele 2020          4th

            2019          4th

            2018          5th 

If you can consistently be in the upper tier of the SEC in ppg, you can contend. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Gowebb11

[FASTCOMPANY 394]

23 hours ago, bigbird said:

No. I think AU fans got comfortable with the style of D he ran.  In time, they will love this type as well. Jimmies and Joe's...

I don't think I'll ever "love" this type of D, BUT if it brings the desired results...it would be greatly accepted.! Furthermore, I don't believe Mason will be at AU more than 2 seasons anyway. I think we'll be getting use to a Schmedding defense before long.

[Guest MustardSeed]

4 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

You completely missed the ball. The talent level now is nowhere close to what CKS was left with. 

  The volume of transfer players we went after at every position on defense but LB should inform you just how depleted this defense is. 

Also, last season happened so those stats are legit and are comparable especially to make the point of talent levels and lake thereof.

I appreciate your input, but respectfully disagree.

I’m not looking for an argument here, but I’ve dug through the stats and I just can’t see your point. 
Last season can in no way compare, but even when you do we are worse now. We played 10 SEC games. Zero cupcakes. You certainly can’t compare national rankings as everyone in the SEC had extremely tougher schedules than normal compared to the rest of college football but even then we were better last year when you look at comparable stats.  
Also, going after certain players in the transfer portal is for multiple reasons. (1) different system requires different types of players. A 3-4 requires 33% more linebackers and different type of d line player so it makes sense to get a few of those type guys and would have been pretty irresponsible not to (2) we had transfers with the coaching staff change so we lost a few guys that needed replaced and (3) the transfers we brought in had the same amount of time in this system as the 3 year starters so transfers or regular starters here is largely irrelevant other than maybe a little cohesion with teammates. 
Are we a little short on talent?  Maybe. We’re we lightyears ahead on talent the last few years compared to now?  I don’t think so.  People harp on us missing Marlon Davidson type players. He was a mid second round guy, has a whopping 6 solo tackles in 11 games in his NFL career, averaged 22 solo tackles (less than 2 per game) and 3.5 sacks (1 every 4 games) a year over 4 years at AU. Was he a really good player?  Sure. Would he start for us now?  Absolutely. Was he light years ahead of our current guys?  Not really. Better, but not lightyears.  He played a lot as a freshman too. Was he better as a freshman than all of our current starters?  Doubt it.  And I get that d-line stats don’t always show up when you get double teamed etc…but he’s not getting double teamed in the league….We may have a second or third round guy or two in the front 7 now.  Depends how they finish out. 
In short, I’m still not sure what stats you are getting at. There are no stats I can find that show we have improved or have valid reason why we have regressed other than being in a new system (which I get is a valid one). If you take away our 3 cupcakes this year our defensive numbers look a whole lot worse and would leave us well behind last year. In our conference games we are giving up 26 points per game and have yet to face the top 2 offenses on our schedule so that’s likely to end up near 30 or so. Last year without MD and with no cupcake breaks we averaged giving up 24.7 ppg. Literally every stat I can find shows we have gone backwards. Our talent level last year wasn’t leaps and bounds ahead of this year was it?  Then why with a much tougher schedule and no cupcakes to work things out did we have a better D in conference games with a team doing so poorly all the coaches were fired?  None of it adds up. If you have stats that show otherwise I’ll take a look and we can discuss, but I literally can’t find a single one.  
I’ll say it again…I’m willing to give Mason another year and see if this improves and trust Harsin to make the right call here…but I’m not sold Mason will get it done and his stats over now many years are a big reason why. Hope like crazy I’m wrong. 

Again, Appreciate your input even if I don’t agree.   Thanks. 

[Guest MustardSeed]

40 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Per ESPN stats PPG SEC rank, which to me is the most important defensive statistic:

Mason this year    4th

Steele 2020          4th

            2019          4th

            2018          5th 

If you can consistently be in the upper tier of the SEC in ppg, you can contend. 

We are actually currently 6th and haven’t played the 2 best offenses on our schedule yet. That could change quite a bit. Yet to be seen of course 

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-game

[bigbird 60,624]

31 minutes ago, JOSEPHIAMLEGEND75@GMAIL.CO said:

I don't think I'll ever "love" this type of D, BUT if it brings the desired results...it would be greatly accepted.! Furthermore, I don't believe Mason will be at AU more than 2 seasons anyway. I think we'll be getting use to a Schmedding defense before long.

I can understand that, It's not necessarily one I prefer either.  

Do you know what D Schmedding runs?

[FASTCOMPANY 394]

Just now, bigbird said:

I can understand that, It's not necessarily one I prefer either.  

Do you know what D Schmedding runs?

[bigbird 60,624]

5 minutes ago, JOSEPHIAMLEGEND75@GMAIL.CO said:

Me either. 

[Guest MustardSeed]

24 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I can understand that, It's not necessarily one I prefer either.  

Do you know what D Schmedding runs?

Didn’t find that, but I did find his acronym for how he wants his defense to play

Schmedding uses an acronym, SPEAR, to set expectations for his defense. That’s: ▪ Stop the run. ▪ Pressure and confuse the quarterback. ▪ Eliminate explosives. ▪ All about the ball ▪ Relentless finish

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/college/mountain-west/boise-state-university/boise-state-football/article233431947.html#storylink=cpy

[eaglenest 332]

11 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Goodness I sure hope he isn’t listening to that advise. Masons team his last 5 years spent more time ranked outside the top 100 in offense and defense than inside the top 100.  Look at how horrendous Vandy is this year. That’s the team he left them. He absolutely destroyed any semblance of the team Franklin had competing when he took over. I mean DESTROYED. Went 0-9 last year in the same division with 2 other teams that fired their HCs 🤢 Lord I hope and pray Harsin isn’t taking HC advise from him.  Probably the WORST thing Mason has going for him is his HC experience. He signed on to be our DC because there was ZERO chance any school would have ever paid him half of what we paid him to be their HC.  

man just give it up, you want Derek gone.

[Guest MustardSeed]

6 minutes ago, eaglenest said:

man just give it up, you want Derek gone.

No, I want him to prove me wrong which I’ve said many times. But I certainly don’t wish for him to share HC secrets with any AU HC until he gets some better success at it. 

But you’re right, I’ve harped on it long enough. Time to move on 👍

[McLoofus 35,182]

18 hours ago, oracle79 said:

That's laughable. We were spoiled by 2 superbowl cornerbacks and Marlon Davidson and Derek Brown.

I think that, because the teams he was on were so severely compromised by offensive ineptitude, Derrick Brown will never be fully appreciated for what he meant to this program. Like, he gets a lot of love and respect, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have one of the five best careers in program history and held a locker room together for multiple seasons.

Put another way, one of the most irreplaceable players ever, for any program.

And got blatantly held the entire damn time.

*****

Put me down as one who is perfectly happy with a bend don't break defense. It's only a problem when the offense refuses to score points or even stay on the field. I'm hopeful that we're trending to the good on that last part.

[Gowebb11 9,522]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

We are actually currently 6th and haven’t played the 2 best offenses on our schedule yet. That could change quite a bit. Yet to be seen of course 

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-game

from ESPN after last nights games. Not sure why the discrepancy between the two sites. We play two Top offenses still, but also two of the lower ranked offenses. Should balance out. We can parse the stats to death but so far Mason is on pace with Steele in points surrendered. Looks different but similar end results. You are correct that it is yet to be seen. 
 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/stats/team/_/view/defense/stat/total/group/8/table/passing/sort/totalPointsPerGame/dir/asc