Penn State Post Game Thread

[Tiger Refuge 6,782]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's wild that pointing out the positives to build on is being "happy" with a "moral victory". I've noticed a decent amount of that performative hypercritical tough guy stuff today.

If the same mistakes are still being made 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years from now... have at it, fam.

 

The bottom line is, it’s way easy to nit pick a loss and point out flawed play calling. 

[Viper 3,503]

10 hours ago, Zeek said:

I agree Bo is accountable that's not even the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying he's not in my top 5-10 of concerns in last night's games.

So overthrowing a wide open Robertson for an easy TD by 15 yards and 5 yards to the left on our first drive wasn't a concern? He's overthrown Schwartz multiple times, which is difficult to do. Overthrowing has and will always be one of his concerns.

Penn St. dropping two easy would-have-been-backbreaking INTs wasn't a concern?

Still throwing off his back foot wasn't a concern?

Nix was who we thought he was. And he didn't let us off the hook.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Viper

[Viper 3,503]

21 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

The problem is that we have been trained over the last few years to look for bonehead play calls.   There were a few in this game,  but not more than any other coach makes. And definitely WAY less than Gus.    Even the great Saban's teams make bonehead calls every now and then.   Right now we do not have the horses to make up for the random bad play call.

 

The trick play was not a bonehead call.  It was just not executed well,  and the random fumble was not cause because of a bad play call.  

The trick play backed up in our own territory was a bonehead call, esp since the running game was going so well. Too much can go wrong with a WR becoming a passer. And it did.

Hudson was merely switching hands with the ball because he saw a wide open gap to run to his left. He might have scored if he doesn't fumble...long-gainer for sure. So I don't fault his decision to abort the pass and take off.

I fault Harsin and Bobo for taking that chance backed up at their own 30. If the running game is not clicking and it's after we cross mid-field, sure.

One of the MANY reasons why Gus is no longer here is because of his cute plays, esp in the red zone, turning 7 points into 3.

I thought we were rid of those disasters ruining close games.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Viper

[WFE12 9,350]

The trick play would have been great if it worked and stupid since it didnt. Kobe played QB in high school for a whole season while the starter was hurt. You would think he'd remember how to hold the ball but hey it's whatever. As far as receivers rotation goes how stubborn this staff is is the question.

[Quietmaninthecorner 2,032]

32 minutes ago, Viper said:

 

I fault Harsin and Bobo for taking that chance backed up at their own 30. 

One of the MANY reasons why Gus is no longer here is because of his cute plays, esp in the red zone, turning 7 points into 3.

 

So trick plays are only to be used between the 30 and 20 yard lines?   LMAO!  Get real.   

Seriously,  have you ever coached anything in your life?

Edited September 20, 2021 by Quietmaninthecorner

[Viper 3,503]

4 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

So trick plays are only be used between the 30 and 20 yard lines?   LMAO!  Get real.   

Seriously,  have you ever coached anything in your life?

Not saying trick plays should never be used. But we have had our fill of cute plays with the previous HC. There are specific times and situations to use them. Our running game was clicking. Tank averaged 4.4 YPC. Hunter 7 YPC. There was no reason to attempt it in that time and situation. No one had seized momentum. It was a terrible decision. Way too risky down 4 on the road backed up at your own 30.

Nix tried to give them 7 at the end of the 1st half. Harsin and Bobo decided to at the start of the 2nd half.

Yup, I dramatically turned around a defense mid-season that was giving up 28 PPG into one that then gave up 7 PPG. And took on an undefeated team that had been blowing out everyone and we tied them 7-7.

What say you coach?

[e808 3,091]

34 minutes ago, Viper said:

The trick play backed up in our own territory was a bonehead call, esp since the running game was going so well. Too much can go wrong with a WR becoming a passer. And it did.

Hudson was merely switching hands with the ball because he saw a wide open gap to run to his left. He might have scored if he doesn't fumble...long-gainer for sure. So I don't fault his decision to abort the pass and take off.

I fault Harsin and Bobo for taking that chance backed up at their own 30. If the running game is not clicking and it's after we cross mid-field, sure.

One of the MANY reasons why Gus is no longer here is because of his cute plays, esp in the red zone, turning 7 points into 3.

I thought we were rid of those disasters ruining close games.

That last part of ur statement is what I was trying to say regarding play calling. No creativity or running a play over and over it’s still play calling. What cost Auburn the game last night was play calling. The mess about Auburn not having the horses is crap.       

[e808 3,091]

The mind blowing call for me still is the 3 and 1 to end the 3 quarter. Let the clock run out and  talk it over during the break. It also allows Tank and the lineman to catch their breathe if u gonna call a run play. Go down and score a touchdown instead of a field goal now the pressure is on PSU.

[Viper 3,503]

5 minutes ago, e808 said:

That last part of ur statement is what I was trying to say regarding play calling. No creativity or running a play over and over it’s still play calling. What cost Auburn the game last night was play calling. The mess about Auburn not having the horses is crap.       

Exactly. Penn St is 70th in the nation in run defense. Tank 4.4 YPC. Hunter 7 YPC. Yet Nix throws it 37 times to our 40 run plays. Balance is only a good thing if both are clicking.

[AU9377 6,031]

7 hours ago, AUloggerhead said:

Even if it was $50M, it was still money well spent.  Could not have taken one more play with Goober Malfunction at the helm!  

Most everyone agrees that it was time for a change.  That isn't the point.  The point is the shock when that change is made and the play calling was as piss poor as it was last night.

[Quietmaninthecorner 2,032]

24 minutes ago, Viper said:

Not saying trick plays should never be used. But we have had our fill of cute plays with the previous HC. There are specific times and situations to use them. Our running game was clicking. Tank averaged 4.4 YPC. Hunter 7 YPC. There was no reason to attempt it in that time and situation. No one had seized momentum. It was a terrible decision. Way too risky down 4 on the road backed up at your own 30.

Nix tried to give them 7 at the end of the 1st half. Harsin and Bobo decided to at the start of the 2nd half.

Yup, I dramatically turned around a defense mid-season that was giving up 28 PPG into one that then gave up 7 PPG. And took on an undefeated team that had been blowing out everyone and we tied them 7-7.

What say you coach?

That is kind of my point.  Gus was so bad that it is easy for us to think, "here we go again" .    I would say the few bonehead mistakes yesterday are no more common with Harsin the any other coach.   You live, you learn.

It is really just something  that all coaches have to try to overcome.   No one makes the right call every time.   In the heat of battle ,  while full of adrenalin, a stupid thought often seem like a good idea.   During the chaos,  other coaches and players are eager to believe and easy to sell.  Everyone is for it ,  until the play fails. 

I coached  baseball.  a lot of games.   Over 10 years worth.  I coached teams with winning records and losing records.   One team's only win was by forfeit.  ( 1-21,  ouch)    One team only lost one game all year (28-1).  And teams with records everywhere in between.  The one thing they ALL had in common was that I made my share of stupid bonehead calls in the heat of battle.    Made some genius calls that broke down and bit  me.    Some pre-planned calls that just failed miserably.  Some calls really pissed off some parents.   Good calls turned to s*** by random chance.  and some correct calls that players didn't execute.    I can not think of one game that was called absolutely perfect.   NOT ONE.

 

BUT none of that really mattered.   The other coaches were dealing with the same s***.  It goes along with coaching.  I made no more or less bonehead calls with my championship team as I did with my ....."opposite of champion" team.     no more or less bonehead calls than any other coach I faced.  

  

[AU9377 6,031]

3 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

That is kind of my point.  Gus was so bad that it is easy for us to think, "here we go again" .    I would say the few bonehead mistakes yesterday are no more common with Harsin the any other coach.   You live, you learn.

It is really just something  that all coaches have to try to overcome.   No one makes the right call every time.   In the heat of battle ,  while full of adrenalin, a stupid thought often seem like a good idea.   During the chaos,  other coaches and players are eager to believe and easy to sell.  Everyone is for it ,  until the play fails. 

I coached  baseball.  a lot of games.   Over 10 years worth.  I coached teams with winning records and losing records.   One team's only win was by forfeit.  ( 1-21,  ouch)    One team only lost one game all year (28-1).  And teams with records everywhere in between.  The one thing they ALL had in common was that I made my share of stupid bonehead calls in the heat of battle.    Made some genius calls that broke down and bit  me.    Some pre-planned calls that just failed miserably.  Some calls really pissed off some parents.   Good calls turned to s*** by random chance.  and some correct calls that players didn't execute.    I can not think of one game that was called absolutely perfect.   NOT ONE.

 

BUT none of that really mattered.   The other coaches were dealing with the same s***.  It goes along with coaching.  I made no more or less bonehead calls with my championship team as I did with my ....."opposite of champion" team.     no more or less bonehead calls than any other coach I faced.  

  

Perfection isn't expected. Having sense enough not to call that play coming out of the half is expected.  That has to be the worst play call to start the second half that I have ever seen in college football.  There were plenty of bad calls made over the past 10 years.  There were also some great calls made, like you compare above.  Harsin only made it worse when he stated that it was pre-determined during the game planning.  I want Harsin to succeed.  I believe that he can.  He has to start by improving on what we saw last night and winning at LSU.

[au302 2,669]

One thing I would like for Harsin to at least consider is moving Mason from the box to the field. I'm cool with Bobo up there since Harsin is also an offensive guy and the communication on O seemed to be pretty good for the most part. Defense was a different story. A lot of confusion at times imo. Especially with Mason's leadership ability, it may be good to have him on the field to rally the troops a bit when things go bad. Move Schmedding or Watts up there if they want a former coordinator looking from above

[Viper 3,503]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

Perfection isn't expected. Having sense enough not to call that play coming out of the half is expected.  That has to be the worst play call to start the second half that I have ever seen in college football.

I couldn't have summed that call up any better than you just did. It was pure asinine.

Some trick plays work. And some don't. Some produce TDs. And some produce turnovers. Nature of the beast. But don't let it decide a close defensive game (which it did) by running it deep inside your own territory in front of 110K fans. The risk far outweighs the reward, esp down 4 on the road in a low-scoring slugfest. Disaster creates (and it created) a 2 TD necessity.

Again, there are specific times and situations to use them. That first play coming out of the half wasn't one of them. Right after a kickoff. Crowd in a frenzy, which deteriorates communication. The only other time in the game on 1st & 10 that could have been worse timing would have been the first play of the game. I don't even think Gus is that stupid.

[Viper 3,503]

On 9/18/2021 at 10:29 PM, AuburnNTexas said:

Bo played a very good game. He in no way was the reason we lost this game.

If the Penn St defenders hang onto his errant throws, you would feel a LOT different.

[DAG 34,763]

11 hours ago, McLoofus said:

It's wild that pointing out the positives to build on is being "happy" with a "moral victory". I've noticed a decent amount of that performative hypercritical tough guy stuff today.

If the same mistakes are still being made 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years from now... have at it, fam.

 

Somebody said I was coddling when CBH when I critiqued him on the very first page yet said we had stuff to build on. The same person totally okay with years of incompetence. This team will grow from this game. It’s not like we didn’t belong with penn state. We had legit opportunities to take the lead in the second half and kept it a one possession game. I have full confidence that CBH and CDM will make successful adjustments now that they see what they are working with. 

[Barnacle 9,107]

14 hours ago, abw0004 said:

By the way, where were you?  I thought you were picking me up to go to the game?  You promised…

 

Yeah, about that...

[McLoofus 35,182]

50 minutes ago, DAG said:

now that they see what they are working with. 

Not sure this has been focused on enough. Game 3 under an almost completely new staff. Doesn't make every decision okay but we gotta be real here. This was a bad football team last year and Harsin, Bobo and Mason haven't been working with each other or these players even a full year. Furthermore, Harsin was sitting at home for two crucial weeks of prep in August and many of the players have missed time, too. 

I'm curious who thinks that 2010 team would've won this game in week 3 at Happy Valley in a whiteout? I don't. That team went to OT with an unranked Clemson team at home. That 2013 team definitely wouldn't have won this game in week 3. I doubt the '81 team would have. That 2004 team would have, but that was also year 6 for Tuberville. 

I'll tell ya what, though. It's great to see the fan base complaining about a handful of specific things and not complete offensive dysfunction. 

 

 

[cole256 17,085]

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Not sure this has been focused on enough. Game 3 under an almost completely new staff. Doesn't make every decision okay but we gotta be real here. This was a bad football team last year and Harsin, Bobo and Mason haven't been working with each other or these players even a full year. Furthermore, Harsin was sitting at home for two crucial weeks of prep in August and many of the players have missed time, too. 

I'm curious who thinks that 2010 team would've won this game in week 3 at Happy Valley in a whiteout? I don't. That team went to OT with an unranked Clemson team at home. That 2013 team definitely wouldn't have won this game in week 3. I doubt the '81 team would have. That 2004 team would have, but that was also year 6 for Tuberville. 

I'll tell ya what, though. It's great to see the fan base complaining about a handful of specific things and not complete offensive dysfunction. 

 

 

That's a good point. I said this was the litmus test. Our baseline. We can improve a bunch. I think the 2010 team wins this game but I get your overall point 

[EastAl_Tiger 228]

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That's a good point. I said this was the litmus test. Our baseline. We can improve a bunch. I think the 2010 team wins this game but I get your overall point 

plus, the OVERALL talent level on the team didn't magically take leaps forward when Harsin was hired. they are what they are. hopefully he can coach them up, maybe he can't.

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That's a good point. I said this was the litmus test. Our baseline. We can improve a bunch. I think the 2010 team wins this game but I get your overall point 

I'm all the way with your assessment. Lots to fix, but nothing to freak out over *yet*. 

And Cam did have a knack for putting the team on his shoulders and doing exactly what was needed to win. Miss State, Kentucky, bama, Oregon... most white knuckle national championship season ever lol. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

9 hours ago, Viper said:

I couldn't have summed that call up any better than you just did. It was pure asinine.

Some trick plays work. And some don't. Some produce TDs. And some produce turnovers. Nature of the beast. But don't let it decide a close defensive game (which it did) by running it deep inside your own territory in front of 110K fans. The risk far outweighs the reward, esp down 4 on the road in a low-scoring slugfest. Disaster creates (and it created) a 2 TD necessity.

Again, there are specific times and situations to use them. That first play coming out of the half wasn't one of them. Right after a kickoff. Crowd in a frenzy, which deteriorates communication. The only other time in the game on 1st & 10 that could have been worse timing would have been the first play of the game. I don't even think Gus is that stupid.

Plays like that are definitely a risk vs reward. If Kobe doesn't drop the ball, we likely gain 30+ yards and the outcome of the game is different. If "if's" and "buts" were candy and nuts, then the neighbors sister wouldn't have herpes.

I am ok with that playcall, I am not ok with the result. Those are the types of plays that made Boise St famous in the Peterson/Harsin OC days. I hate the outcome was what it was.

[auburnphan 6,050]

I did not have a problem with the 4th and 2 call.  Bo read the defense and thought he made the best choice, he didn’t.   
 

the zone defense is what confused me.  Clearly Mason made the choice and wanted to avoid big plays I am guessing.   I thought during spring ball they were not focusing on zone very much, from what I heard.

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

the zone defense is what confused me.  Clearly Mason made the choice and wanted to avoid big plays I am guessing.   I thought during spring ball they were not focusing on zone very much, from what I heard.

That's the card in my rolodex of emotions that I'm stuck on right now. That's the thing that just feels like a possible red flag as far as our coaching staff goes.

 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

20 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

I did not have a problem with the 4th and 2 call.  Bo read the defense and thought he made the best choice, he didn’t.   
 

the zone defense is what confused me.  Clearly Mason made the choice and wanted to avoid big plays I am guessing.   I thought during spring ball they were not focusing on zone very much, from what I heard.

Is it plausible that it could take Mason a few big games to get out of the mindset from coaching at Vandy? Could he be resorting back to a mentallity of coaching very conservatively and not to lose instead of coaching to win because he is used to coaching with inferior athletes than what he has now?